[Ayoob]

I've thought about this quite a bit and have come to a few conclusions. Please correct/update me on anything you see that will improve the quality of life of me (#1) and the lives of those around me (#2-and on).

I have come to the conclusion that using a bicycle for personal transportation to work and back is not viable. I need to use some sort of assisted power to get to work and come home. Maybe that's a battery powered electric bike, maybe it's a cheap gasoline powered Chinese motored bicycle, but by God I'm wearing an American made waterproof suit while I ride it.

For food, I think protein is going to be expensive, followed by starchy vegetables. Spices are fairly easily grown. Just because people don't bother today doesn't mean that they won't tomorrow.

I can live in my climate without any heat or cooling at all, so I'm not worried about that. I have enough books to provide my children with an education. I realize that I'm going to have to be able to pick up and move on a moment's notice to a more desirable location or a cheaper location due to many factors. Fair enough... my wife and I have been reading Simplicity books for a while and are working on whittling down our possessions to the point that they no longer rule us, we rule them.

[careinke]

Those are a great start. I would look for a place you can call home, and move there.

I think it will suck everywhere, so what is the point of trying to bug out. Besides it is better to build up comunity defenses now while you have time. Find a place that will give you a niche in the local community and work on that in your spare time. I can think of all sorts of things that people are doing around me. Some people sell extra eggs, some have bees and sell honey, there is a pottery maker, a metal worker, several medical marijuana growers. One guy raises free range turkeys, another is a Muslim and raises goats for traditional Eid celebrations. There is a person who has set up a vineyard and winery on just 5 acres. Learn to make soap, the list is endless.

Perhaps you don't even have to move after a post PO crash. It does not take a lot of room to have a few layer chickens or some rabbit cages (for your protein).

For me, my thing is trying to become as independent from the BAU society as possible, raise most of my own food, and get the place ready to accept my extended family if needed. I am lucky enough to have a steady retirement, so I can do this full time. I try and spend my money on things that make economic sense and/or provide a sustainable yield back to me. So, for me, I would rather buy and plant an apple tree instead of buying apples from the store for the rest of my life.

I've been doing this for the last six or seven years, and it is finally starting to come together for me. At first I thought I could do it all by myself. After trying it, I now realize that it is really hard for two people to do it all alone. You need a community; to barter, share, and come together to work on big projects. In return, you need to help others on their path, in order to make it work.

[Heineken]

Although I've made some preps and live on plenty of land, I've pretty much stopped actively preparing (or shall we say sacrificing) for Goetterdaemmerung. I'm 56 and figure (hope) that things will hold, albeit steadily deteriorating, for another 20 to 25 years.

Nine times out of ten, the thing that will get you is the thing you never saw coming and thus have not or could not prepare for. Most likely a medical event for which treatment is either not accessible by you or not affordable to you.

[Heineken]

dupe post

[Cloud9]

If it is just oil without catastrophic political decisions being made like a world war, the collapse will not be even or complete. The government will do everything in its power to feed the cities and contain them. That is where their power lies. Cities provide the most voters and the most conscripts. Collapsing cities can collapse the regime. The power brokers are simply not going to stand for that. L.A. and Miami might be left to rot because they are far away from the centers of power but the Washington and New York and most of the north east will be maintained at all costs.
Bugging out unless you have a place to go will turn you into a refugee or a predator in a matter of days. Better think that one out.

[eXpat]

I have come to the conclusion that using a bicycle for personal transportation to work and back is not viable.

I´m curious why do you think that. A good sturdy bicycle is king in a lot of places...

[Plantagenet]

I think it will suck everywhere, so what is the point of trying to bug out.

PO is already significantly impacting our lives---the world economy is slowly collapsing due to high energy prices. When global oil production starts decreasing energy prices will go even higher.

The future will be just like now, only worse.

Areas that import oil will get poorer. Areas that produce and export oil will become even wealthier than they are now. Even in this crappy economy North Dakota, Alberta, Alaska, Norway, Saudi Arabia etc. are doing pretty darn good and they'll continue to do well as oil prices continue to climb.

[PrestonSturges]

Prepare to telecommute, to have goods and services delivered, or to be part of the supply chain delivering goods and services. My current strategy is to develop a product and sell it, but I've had plenty of (bad) experiences to give me the necessary perspective.

[Heineken]

I have come to the conclusion that using a bicycle for personal transportation to work and back is not viable.

I´m curious why do you think that. A good sturdy bicycle is king in a lot of places...

A lot of places, but not most places. Maybe Belgium, but not Atlanta GA, or Buffalo New York. And maybe for some folks, but not most. Mom and the kids, and Granny, and Dad with his load of construction tools can't get far into the Sprawl in Winter during a Blizzard. I don't believe bike travel is even possible in San Francisco or the Eastern Slope suburbs of Denver. Sure you might see a few brave life-style types (greenies, extreme-o's, bike techies) riding around but they are not very common, per mile traveled.

Yes, so true. We had an active thread on this. Bicycle travel in most of the US and much of the world is incredibly dangerous. I know, I used to be a big-time biker, mostly in DC and its Virginia suburbs. I one day consciously gave it up because I had had too many close calls. Even as a careful, considerate driver I have difficulty seeing and avoiding crazy bicyclists on our back roads here. They terrify me.

Bicycles are a practical means of transportation only where there are dedicated, separate trails for them and those trails happen to go to or near where you need to go (fat chance in most areas). Even then, crowded, twisty bike trails can be very dangerous. Then the problem isn't motorists but other cyclists and people walking or rollerblading (especially the latter). I've nearly been killed or injured several times on bicycle trails by oncoming people who crossed over into my lane.

What's more, bicycles are fragile things and need lots of maintenance. There's always something going wrong with them.

[PrestonSturges]

One of our former neighbors was recently found in the ditch with a brain injury after being knocked off his bike by a car.

[PrestonSturges]

In Tokyo, bikes use the sidewalk and they have the right of way. They'll clip you with their basket if you don't move.

Our friend found in the ditch was in a rural area, a rough redneck area with lots of drunk drivers tooling around in rusty pickups.

[Ayoob]

The bicycle not being viable is simply a distance problem. I have a one hour commute in a car at the optimum time for traffic, but a bicycle would make it four hours each way. It just can't be done. I'm not Lance Armstrong.

I could do it in a two hour assisted-powered bicycle of one kind or another and battery technology is getting better all the time. I can't telecommute, and I would have to shower and dress in a suit when I got to work. Well, maybe business casual, but it's not like I could get off my bike and start work in half an hour. It would be an hour for recovery, stop sweating, shower, eat, dress, groom, and mentally prepare for the day.

As for getting nailed on the side of the road... you know not the day nor the hour. The best you can do is wear a motorcycle body armor suit and a helmet and chalk the rest up to fate and whatever lighting you can afford. An armored motorcycle suit would shrug off a redneck throwing a beer bottle at you at 85 miles an hour. Hint: They're armored! They've saved my life three times now, I trust armor. But if somebody hit the back of my helmet with their side view mirror at that speed, they could easily break my neck and then it's all for nothing.

I'd much rather roll a Chevy Sprint optimized for 70MPG and two-hamsterwheel-power than cycle twice a day in the dawn and dusk.

[Narz]

Prepare to telecommute, to have goods and services delivered, or to be part of the supply chain delivering goods and services. My current strategy is to develop a product and sell it, but I've had plenty of (bad) experiences to give me the necessary perspective.

What type of product are you trying to create & sell if you don't mind my asking?

[careinke]

The bicycle not being viable is simply a distance problem. I have a one hour commute in a car at the optimum time for traffic, but a bicycle would make it four hours each way. It just can't be done. I'm not Lance Armstrong.

I could do it in a two hour assisted-powered bicycle of one kind or another and battery technology is getting better all the time. I can't telecommute, and I would have to shower and dress in a suit when I got to work. Well, maybe business casual, but it's not like I could get off my bike and start work in half an hour. It would be an hour for recovery, stop sweating, shower, eat, dress, groom, and mentally prepare for the day.

As for getting nailed on the side of the road... you know not the day nor the hour. The best you can do is wear a motorcycle body armor suit and a helmet and chalk the rest up to fate and whatever lighting you can afford. An armored motorcycle suit would shrug off a redneck throwing a beer bottle at you at 85 miles an hour. Hint: They're armored! They've saved my life three times now, I trust armor. But if somebody hit the back of my helmet with their side view mirror at that speed, they could easily break my neck and then it's all for nothing.

I'd much rather roll a Chevy Sprint optimized for 70MPG and two-hamsterwheel-power than cycle twice a day in the dawn and dusk.

Sounds like a move or a new job in your future.

[Beery1]

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I have come to the conclusion that using a bicycle for personal transportation to work and back is not viable.

If you think it's not viable, then you are either underestimating the bicycle as a vehicle, or your distance from work is unviable in a post-peak world, or you are dangerously unfit, which will also be unviable in a post-peak world.

Either way, you should probably fix the issues that make bicycle commuting unviable, or you're going to be in a bad place if/when things get really bad. If fitness is the problem, cycling can fix that. If distance is the problem, you must fix that before you find yourself stuck in the middle of nowhere and unable to get to work, buy food, etc.

[AgentR11]

So Beery1. How does one procure a sixpack in a blizzard? just asking.

What is this "blizzard" thing. There's a game software company by that name, right? Maybe you get a sixpack by hooking a gaming rig up to a ab-cruncher, and you power it by doing sit ups???