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Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 04 Jan 2012, 17:34:28

Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Renewables now provide 12% of domestic energy production, 14% more than 2010; and renewable electrical output increased 25%, which contributes to 13% of U.S. power.

According to the most recent issue of the "Monthly Energy Review" by the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), with data through September 30, 2011, renewable energy sources continue to expand rapidly while substantially outpacing the growth rates of fossil fuels and nuclear power.

For the first nine months of 2011, renewable energy sources (i.e., biomass/biofuels, geothermal, solar, water, wind) provided 11.95% of domestic U.S. energy production. That compares to 10.85% for the same period in 2010 and 10.33% in 2009. By comparison, nuclear power provided just 10.62% of the nation's energy production in the first three quarters of 2011 -- i.e., 11.10% less than renewables.


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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby seahorse3 » Wed 04 Jan 2012, 18:09:29

More windmills and solar are good for the reduction of greenhouse gases, but sure hasn't done anything to reduce the amount of oil we use has it. Those windmills certainly don't put anymore EV Volts on the road. So, windmills to power my laptop are fine, but I'm more worried about the liquid fuels crisis, which is where our gas is going to come from for all the cars, planes, trains and trucks. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a single EV big rig or plane is there? How many EV cars out of 250 million registered vehicles in the US? When windmills make a dent in our fuel consumption, I'll be a believer in the alternatives. Until then, we have lots of coal and NG for our electricity. In fact, why build solar and windmills with 100 years of NG laying around idle doing nothing?
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby kublikhan » Wed 04 Jan 2012, 19:52:46

seahorse3 wrote:Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a single EV big rig or plane is there?
There are EV big rigs out there. But they are range limited, mostly used for shipping contains around ports and to nearby rail yards.
Heavy Duty Electric Truck

There are even bigger EV vehicles than that used in the mining industries. But those are usually tethered to electric cables or trolley lines.
An iron ore mine, the typical haulage route from shovel to crusher at mid-1971 was anticipated as 8,000 ft with a vertical lift of 400 feet and a cycle time of 26.6 minutes. They were looking for ways to reduce their cycle time, and felt that their trucks needed more horsepower. As a result, all of QCM's trucks were converted to trolley in December 1970 - including KW Dart 85 ton, Unit Rig M85 (85 ton), and Unit Rig M100 (100 ton) trucks. Trolley continued to operate successfully until the iron ore deposit was depleted and mining activity ceased in 1977. Over the life of the system, QCM realized a 23% improvement in productivity and an 87% decrease in fuel consumption on the grade.

By October 1981 all 75 of the 170 ton Unit Rig trucks were converted to trolley, and 2.7 kilometers of overhead lines were installed along selected in-pit ramps. Installation of Phase III trolley ramps began in June of 1982.
Trolley History

"Today’s large electric mining shovels represent peak loads of more than 3.5 MW"
Mining Shovels

Like the mining trucks that use trolley assist when available, there are hybrid buses that use electric trolley power when available and switch over to diesel when on the open road:
There is however a technology which has been around for decades which would enable trucks to climb hills with ease without using their diesel engines. That technology is the traction system used in electric trolley buses which are used in some American cities especially those built on hills where electric motors can produce more torque than a diesel engine and temporarily operate overpowered for a short period of time when climbing a hill. Boston for example is using dual-mode buses on its new Silver Line that run on overhead electricity on a fixed right of way and then switches to regular city streets using their diesel engines when overhead power lines are not available. 300+ cities around the world use electric trolley buses so the technology for powering large vehicles using overhead power lines is well proven.
Hybrid Diesel Electric Overhead Power System for Trucks

There are also electric planes. But they are small experimental models, not full size commerical aircraft.

NASA today awarded what it called the largest prize in aviation history to a company that flew their aircraft 200 miles in less than two hours on less than one gallon of fuel or electric equivalent. Their aircraft is the Taurus G4 by Pipistrel-USA.com. The twin fuselage motor glider features a 145 kW electric motor, lithium-ion batteries, and retractable landing gear.

Two years ago the thought of flying 200 miles at 100 mph in an electric aircraft was pure science fiction," said Jack Langelaan, team leader of Team Pipistrel-USA.com in a statement. "Now, we are all looking forward to the future of electric aviation."

It is hoped by NASA and Google that the technologies demonstrated by the CAFE Green Flight Challenge, sponsored by Google, competitors may end up in general aviation aircraft, spawning new jobs and new industries for the 21st century. NASA noted that there is great evidence such aviation awards can change history. The Orteig Prize changed the public's expectations of flying. Charles Lindbergh's flight across the Atlantic created the expectation that anyone could fly.
NASA, Google award $1.35M prize for ultra-cool, mega-efficient electric aircraft

seahorse3 wrote:When windmills make a dent in our fuel consumption, I'll be a believer in the alternatives. Until then, we have lots of coal and NG for our electricity. In fact, why build solar and windmills with 100 years of NG laying around idle doing nothing?
The amount of fossil fuels still laying around in the ground is enough to cook the earth 4 times over if we burned them all. For this reason alone, it is a good idea to shift our energy consumption away from fossil fuels, even if there are abundant supplies of fossil fuels still remaining in the ground.

And less we forget, the predominant method of moving goods and people around in this country was via trolleys and trains before a coalition of oil and automobile moguls got together and conspired to cripple the trolley and train industries in this country:
...Few Americans understand why those quiet, non-polluting electric rail system (trolleys) which once served all our major cities suddenly disappeared like the dinosaurs, and most accept the automobile as the evolutionary replacement. However, no asteroid from outer space wiped out America's trolleys. It was General Motors.

In 1922 only one American family in 10 owned an auto. Alfred P. Sloan, Jr., GM's president, decided to change this. With friends at Firestone Rubber, Standard Oil, Phillips Petroleum and Mack Truck, Sloan began secretly, first to buy up and then destroy the rail systems in America's cities. To hide his campaign from the public eye, he hired an unknown, E. Roy Fitzgerald, as a figurehead, advertising him as an entrepreneur from the sticks. They formed a company, National City Lines, and quickly purchased Yellow Bus, America's largest diesel bus builder, and Omnibus, a bus-operating company.

National City Lines, headed by Fitzgerald, but privately funded by a consortium organized by Sloan and friends began buying up the rail systems in America's cities, one by one. Their approach was simple: using political know-how and money to influence city councils, while they paid Madison Avenue to tell the country "the trend was away from rail," they systematically destroyed America's clean, electric rail systems, replacing them with their polluting diesel buses. By 1941, National City Lines owned the transportation system in over 83 American cities across the country.

The day National City Lines signed a purchase agreement, their staff took over. Rail management was fired, and the process of piecemeal destruction set in motion: Fares were increased, routes cancelled and trolleys were taken out of service, schedules were reduced, salaries of workers cut, maintenance neglected. As rail systems thus self-destructed, a nationwide media campaign offered "modern, non-polluting diesels." Eventually, the last trolley disappeared, along with the tracks. An independent observer, Commander Edwin Quinby, caught onto GM's plot and took it upon himself to warn the city fathers across the country. At his own expense, he mailed out a 31-page brochure, outlining the takeover plan. GM hoisted an expensive public-relations campaign to discredit Quinby. Some readers, however, got the news, and a grassroots protest finally brought an investigation by the Justice Department.

In 1936, National City Lines, along with General Motors, was found guilty. The two were fined $5,000 apiece, while their management staff were fined $1 each. Later Justice Department investigations got nowhere, because by 1932 GM had created the National Highway Users Conference, a powerful Washington lobby to push for more freeways and silence discussion of diesel or gasoline pollution. Alfred P. Sloan headed the conference for 30 years until another GM man took over.

With the post-WWII boom in home construction, President Eisenhower, in 1953, appointed the then-president of General Motors, Charles Wilson, as Secretary of Defense and DuPont's chief, Secretary of Transportation (DuPont was GM's biggest investor). These two set out to pave over America for the auto. DuPont got Eisenhower to set up the Highway Trust Fund which funnelled gasoline tax money into highway construction. Two thirds of these funds went to build inner-city freeways. Meanwhile, GM, recognizing the limits of bus sales as contrasted with automobiles, changed its tactics, and in 1972, convinced the House of Representatives to deny all funding for public transportation, hoping to reduce bus service. The money was diverted to freeways. By the 1950's buses were disappearing and everyone wanted a car. Thus while post-war Europe and Japan were rebuilding their rail transit, America was destroying hers.

Though the House of Representatives in 1972 blocked monies for rapid transit, public pressure was making itself heard. San Francisco's Mayor Alioto, in the 1974 Senate hearings, publicly questioned whether what was good for General Motors was good for the country. By 1992, the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act (ISTEA) allowed local input into transit decisions, and by 1991, 25 cities across the country were experimenting with light rail systems....
The Conspiracy to Destroy America's Trolley Systems
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby seahorse3 » Wed 04 Jan 2012, 20:43:06

Kub, wishful thinking on EV heavy transport. The fact is, there's not a single EV OTR Dot registered long haul truck on the road today, period. There may be some mining vehicles and port vehicles but these do nothing to reduce out dependence on foriegn oil. And following the theory that the market is always right, we would be driving EV long haul trucks and cars if eletrictric was the answer- we don't because it's not and that's why the Volt was a flop. And there are no commercial airlines flying
EVs now. UPS, FedEx nor Boeing have a single EV in their fleets and not anywhere on the horizon. So if PO hits within the next 10 years it's safe to say these EV mining vehicles and port vehicles won't save us, bc we still need oil to transport the goods from the mines and ports. Further, I watched an interesting show on one of those mines you reference and their electric bill was in the millions per month so it's still quite an expensive alternative. So since we don't have any EV longnhaul trucks or planes and since EV cars are a flop, don't hold your breath waiting on electricity to save you from the need for ME oil.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby kublikhan » Wed 04 Jan 2012, 21:03:25

seahorse3, you are flat out wrong. Delivery fleets like UPS, fedex, etc. are using electric trucks. Infact, the economics of electrics work better for fleet delivery vehicles than they do for automobiles. This is because delivery fleets have shorter and more predictable routes, fleet maintenance can be coordinated, etc.

Even as auto manufacturers seek to convince car buyers of the virtues of electric vehicles, one key group needs little persuasion: delivery fleet managers. While commuters and vacationers may fret about so-called range anxiety—the fear of not making it to a charging station before the car's battery needs topping up—drivers of commercial delivery vehicles tend to follow the same route each day, so they have a pretty good idea how much power they'll need. And since trucks typically return to the garage every night, there's little worry about finding a charger. Electrics "are quiet, don't pollute, and vibrate less than diesels," says Mike O'Connell, director of fleet capability for Frito-Lay North America. "Our sales reps are fighting over who gets the next one."

Frito-Lay has bought 176 electric delivery trucks for use across the country, or about 1 percent of its total fleet. As that number grows, O'Connell says, the vehicles will be instrumental in reaching a company goal to halve fuel use by 2020. The trucks, all of them a model called the Newton from Smith Electric Vehicles of Kansas City, Mo., have cut fuel expenses and boosted worker productivity, says Bob Simpson, Frito-Lay's fleet manager for the New York region. By May, 6 percent of Simpson's fleet of 250 trucks will be electrics, and if he had his way he would replace all of his diesels with them. They offer "real savings [on fuel], and we expect even more when you factor in very low maintenance and repairs," Simpson says as he threads his way through greasy diesels to show off his Newtons on a Brooklyn lot.

Less than 1 percent of the 135,000 medium-duty trucks that U.S. companies will buy this year will be electric, according to Americas Commercial Transportation Research. But battery prices, which represent about a third of the cost of an electric truck, will likely fall to a quarter of today's level by 2020, which will "drive down costs and create demand," says Glen Walker, an analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. Until then, incentives will likely help sales, he says. The federal government offers a tax credit of up to $7,500 for each electric vehicle, and California and other states offer additional rebates of as much as $5,000.

Coca-Cola Bottling, AT&T, and utility PG&E have all replaced diesels with Newtons, and in December the U.S. Marine Corps ordered two for its base in Camp Pendleton, Calif. Office supply retailer Staples says the benefits are clear. The company has 41 Newtons—about 3 percent of its total delivery fleet—in California, Missouri, and Ohio. Staples is considering an order for more this fall as leases expire on 140 diesels. The company says the Newtons have helped it cut fuel use by 4 percent in the past three months.
Delivery Fleets Love Electric Trucks

UPS has announced that it will be buying 100 electric delivery vehicles from Electric Vehicles International (EVI) in Stockton, California. The 100 vehicles will replace older diesel trucks already in the fleet and all for the vehicles will be deployed in California. The electric delivery vehicles will have a 90-mile range and will help UPS to save an estimated 126,000 gallons of fuel each year.

Currently, UPS has 28 EVs in fleets operating in NYC and Europe. The purchase of the 100 EVs for California will be the largest EV fleet rollout in the country for UPS. UPS currently operates one of the largest fleets of private alternative fuel vehicles in the world. In total, UPS has 2,200 green vehicles in use globally. Those vehicles include CNG, propane, LNG, and hybrid-electric vehicles.

"The advantage of an electric power train is zero tailpipe emissions," added Britt. "These trucks will be perfectly suited for UPS's short range urban delivery routes."
UPS Buys 100 All-Electric Delivery Vehicles for California

Last week, FedEx announced the addition of 24 new all-electric vehicles to its fleet, bringing its total of all-electric vehicles up to 43. That number sounds disappointingly small given the size of FedEx’s global fleet, but this small group of electric vehicles could play an outsized role in preparing the U.S. to support a mass market for new automotive technology. The new EVs will be used as “rolling laboratories” to study two key areas. One is the performance of commercial electric vehicles under real working conditions in different parts of the U.S. The other is to get a better grasp on how electric vehicles will impact the energy grid.

The 24 new EVs are just part of an ambitious overhaul announced last week by FedEx, which will upgrade more than ten percent of its fleet with 4,000 new energy efficient vehicles. The aim is to achieve quick results by using proven technologies that are already at hand, while working on long term solutions that require more study and trial periods.

Fuel efficiency is essentially a bottom line benefit for any individual company but it can also dovetail with national goals, specifically with the Obama administration’s goal of transitioning the U.S. out of fossil fuels and into safer, less risky forms of energy. To that end, FedEx has partnered with the U.S. Department of Energy as a charter member of the agency’s National Clean Fleets program, which has the dual goal of cutting petroleum use by large fleets and helping to improve air quality in cities and other at-risk areas. The company is also investing in two other areas of national focus, solar power and energy-efficient data centers.
FedEx More than Doubles Its Fleet of Electric Vehicles

And did you miss my post on how we got into our current predicament? We already HAD an alternative to automobiles and trucks fueled by ME oil in the form of trolleys and trains. We dismantled it so those with an stake in the game could reap obscene profits. I am not saying I expect us to flick a switch and the Volt will come save us so we can continue happy motoring. Just that if we went electric before with century old tech, we can certainly do it again today.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby kublikhan » Wed 04 Jan 2012, 21:44:24

Lithium-ion battery makers have made ambitious investments in new capacity, well ahead of automakers’ commitments to large-scale production of electric vehicles.

The total worldwide manufacturing capacity of lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles will greatly exceed supply unless demand by automakers increases significantly in the short-term, according to new research by Bloomberg New Energy Finance. As a result of the overcapacity, battery prices are poised to fall.

Automakers have committed to producing up to 839,000 plug-in electric vehicles worldwide by 2013, up from just 124,000 to be delivered by the end of 2011. As a result, demand for lithium-ion batteries will reach 18GWh by 2013 from the current level of 2.4GWh – a sevenfold increase in just two years. In contrast, the supply capacity under construction by battery makers will reach 35GWh by 2013, enough to supply almost double the number of planned electric vehicles. As batteries have a limited shelf life, it is unlikely that battery manufacturers will produce more than market demand. Instead, they will reduce output to match contracted demand.

At the moment, electric vehicle batteries cost between $800-1000/kWh and make up about 30-50% of the cost of a typical EV. But the short-term overcapacity and the competitiveness in the field will push battery prices lower, improving affordability of electric vehicles. There are currently over 20 battery makers with plants constructed or under construction, and it will take time for this excess capacity to be absorbed. In the long term, lithium-ion battery prices will continue to decline as the industry reaches scale. Electric vehicle sales are expected to increase and battery costs will continue to decline along an experience curve to hit around $350/kWh by 2020.
Price of electric vehicle batteries to fall as manufacturing capacity outstrips demand

With battery prices falling fast, even electric automobiles could suddenly become affordable in the next few years.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby seahorse3 » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 09:18:25

No not wrong KK. I said there is not a single OTR truck on US highways today and that's a fact. You link articles on the medium duty fleet and the numbers there are disappointing- less than 1% of the US medium duty fleet is EV. You also link an article on EV cars which is disappointing. We have 250 million cars on the road. Your article says there "are plans" to produce a mere 800k. If those plans come to fruition (big assumption bc the Volt was a flop), those 800k cars won't dent US oil imports nor will the less than 1% of medium EV trucks. Now I all for alternatives, but the reality is if PO hits in the next ten years EV is not going to save us.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby KingM » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 10:54:51

The best solution is 100% rail for long distance and electric for short distance. Medium distance is the sticking point.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:06:21

KingM wrote:The best solution is 100% rail for long distance and electric for short distance. Medium distance is the sticking point.


Yup, and where neither of these work, use Natural Gas trucks to fill the gaps.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby Revi » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:07:42

We are going to have a hard time converting to another system, which is why it will probably not happen here in the US. We spent a lot of time and money to convert to the system we are living in now, but in places that are just now industrializing they are going for EV local transit and trains in a big way. It's a shame because we have been driving an EV for about 5 years now and it's a lot easier than a gas car. The culture is the problem. We don't believe it can be done differently because our culture tells us that the only way to get around is in a 5000 pound steel box propelled by exploding hydrocarbons. The reality is that we could get around in a thousand pound EV or a 50 pound electric bicycle, but we won't allow ourselves to do it because our culture is what really tells us what to do.

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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby cephalotus » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:31:44

seahorse3 wrote:More windmills and solar are good for the reduction of greenhouse gases, but sure hasn't done anything to reduce the amount of oil we use has it. Those windmills certainly don't put anymore EV Volts on the road. So, windmills to power my laptop are fine, but I'm more worried about the liquid fuels crisis, which is where our gas is going to come from for all the cars, planes, trains and trucks. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a single EV big rig or plane is there? How many EV cars out of 250 million registered vehicles in the US? When windmills make a dent in our fuel consumption, I'll be a believer in the alternatives. Until then, we have lots of coal and NG for our electricity. In fact, why build solar and windmills with 100 years of NG laying around idle doing nothing?


You can use your natural gas in vehicles. Voilà.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby seahorse3 » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:36:08

We can use NG in vehicles? I'm surprised.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby kublikhan » Thu 05 Jan 2012, 17:13:28

seahorse3 wrote:UPS, FedEx nor Boeing have a single EV in their fleets and not anywhere on the horizon.
This is what I was referring to when I said you were wrong. UPS, Fedex, and many other delivery fleets are expanding their electric, natural gas, and other alternatively fueled vehicles. Like I said earlier, medium duty delivery fleets are even better poised to go electric than automobiles. I would expect EVs in this market segment to grow faster than cars.

Although less than 1 percent of the medium-duty trucks U.S. companies will buy in 2011 will be all-electric, according to Americas Commercial Transportation Research Co., LLC, some industry experts are predicting that the medium-duty market will be one of the fastest growing segments of the emerging plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) market.

Fleet focus on total cost of ownership: Medium-duty trucks are heavy users of fuel, which means the economics of switching to all-electric can be very favorable for a company,” said Dave Hurst, senior analyst, Pike Research. “The upfront cost premium of electric trucks can be recovered increasingly quickly as the price of diesel climbs because the cost of electricity is much lower. Since fleet managers tend to look at total cost of ownership rather than just the up-front cost, this is a positive advantage for electric, assuming it fits their route.” Genevieve Cullen, vice president, Electric Drive Transportation Association (EDTA) agreed. “The battery-electric and plug-in hybrid medium-duty market is growing based on the advances in the technology that improves performance; the regulatory drivers that require increasingly clean and fuel-efficient vehicles; and the continuing volatility in the petroleum markets, which makes electricity an economically-attractive option for business and fleet owners,” Cullen said.

Recurring routes with return-to-base operations: “Many medium-duty trucks are used in return-to-base type routes. These vehicles leave a central point, run a pre-defined route, and return to base. As long as this route fits within the range of the vehicle then electric could work very well,” said Hurst of Pike Research.

Vehicle size conducive for carrying batteries and other PEV components: “Attributes of medium-duty trucks tend to lend themselves to electrification,” Hurst explained. “The vehicles have more space within or alongside the truck frame for the batteries. The batteries tend to take up a lot of space, which is one of the challenges in a light-duty vehicle and there just aren’t the same kind of space constraints in medium duty trucks.”

Ideal for off-highway, stop-and-go, lower speed applications: “Trucks used within urban environments often do not need high speed, so a top speed of 45-50 mph is often plenty,” Hurst said. “Since higher speeds tend to use a lot of energy, these lower speeds help extend the range of the vehicle.” According to Cullen, “Medium-duty vehicles tend to be used in more urban delivery/duty cycles, which optimizes the value of regenerative braking.”

Dave Hurst, senior analyst, Pike Research: “By 2017, we are expecting the market to support about 5,600 trucks per year. So, by 2017, that would mean about 20,000 all-electric medium-duty trucks on the roads. Growth in the market through 2017 is expected to be strong with a 36-percent growth rate between now and 2017.

“Unlike the consumer automobile market, the electric vehicle market for business is very new so it’s still early. However, interest is high — especially in categories such as local delivery, where vehicles are in use and we are beginning to see total cost of ownership analysis that are favorable for EVs.”

Genevieve Cullen, vice president, Electric Drive Transportation Association: “We are bullish on this market. It is an emerging one, but we expect meaningful growth in the next decade based on the factors described above. Technology advances, regulatory demands, and increasing oil costs all reinforce the movement toward electrification in this segment. In fact, Pike Research projects that sales of medium- and heavy-duty hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and battery-electric trucks will grow at a compound annual growth rate of 63 percent, with sales of almost 300,000 vehicles from 2010 to 2015.”

“We expect the commercial fleet market to develop ahead of the passenger EV market because the economic argument for cutting the cost of fuel for trucks that may get between 6 and 8 mpg by 80 percent is absolutely compelling.
What is the Future of All-Electric Medium-Duty Trucks?

As for the small 1% figure, the EV market for medium duty vehicles is very new, an emerging market. The ARRA(Stimulus bill) was only passed in 2009(contains incentives for EVs). And the new regulatory standards for emissions and fuel economy in medium duty vehicles were only passed in 2010. They don't even go into effect until 2014. The surprise to me is that so many fleets are going electric already. Battery prices are still very high right now. I expect to see accelerating EV growth as the new standards go into effect in 2014 and battery prices continue to fall sharply out to 2020.

And why in gods name would you want to create an EV heavy duty truck for long range shipping? Even today rail or ship can do the job cheaper and more efficiently. And that's before we get into the cost of adding the buttload of batteries the rig would need. The economics just don't work well for a long range EV heavy duty truck. I would expect this segment to continue to use diesel even with sky high prices. Plus further shifts to rail. Maybe some biodiesel. But an all electric long range heavy duty truck? Don't hold your breath. However I don't see this as a huge problem though. Consider this:

kublikhan wrote:
frankthetank wrote:If i did my math correct, a container ship used .0054 gallons of fuel per pound of cargo for a trip between China and Los Angeles. Then add the trucking from Los Angeles to La Crosse where i live...about 2000 miles...so a semi used.... .0074 gallons of fuel to ship my 1lb of veggies. SO to ship my 1lb of veggies from China to La Crosse consumed .0128 gallons of fuel vs my car using .4 gallons to get to the store and back!!! Holy crap.. I think it shows you that hauling large amounts is a heck of a lot more efficient then small amounts.
In this example, the last leg of the food delivery journey(the consumer buying the food and delivering it home) consumed 30 times as much fuel on a per pound basis as delivering the food to the supermarket. Thus it would appear to me that any efficiency gains we make for the consumer would have 30x as much impact on oil consumption as any efficiency gains on the production side of the equation.
That big rig sucking down diesel is using oil 30x as efficiently as you are when you drive to the store to pickup your groceries. I don't think we need to be focusing on this market segment for further optimization when other segments could use it a hell of alot more. And the optimizations this market segment could use would be better served with other alternatives like rail, biodiesel, etc. Not EV.

About my "disappointing" article on EV cars. Did you miss that part where battery prices are projected to fall sharply by 2020? Other articles I read were calling for an even sharper drop, up to 75%. I would not by a leaf/volt today because they are too expensive. But if battery prices really did drop that far by 2020, I probably would.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby seahorse3 » Fri 06 Jan 2012, 14:13:13

God's name? Why would I want to do something in God's name? I don't know his name. Even if I did, I wouldn't do anything under his name. Though many people do, it is usually to commit attrocities of the worst type. I assume God can act on his own. As for EVs riding to the rescue, it sounds very paltry. I don't think they could have saved Custer.
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Re: Renewable Sources Continue Explosive Growth

Unread postby kublikhan » Fri 06 Jan 2012, 15:20:19

Pretty lame reply to my long post. But anyway, let me ask you this: when all of the oil is gone or too expensive to use, what do you think we will use to power our transportation?
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