[Pops]

Since my first post on topic maybe a dozen years ago, the once and forever numero uno strawman in the PO debate has been that those inclined to think the supply of oilish liquids will peak then decline are misanthropes.

Either because of personal failure, genetic misfortune or misplaced romanticism, these poor peakers await the wiper of the slate to make them successful at last in the world of the Postman! So goes the refrain at least, usually right on the heels of the ever popular scientific rebuttal of Peak theory: "Running out has been forecast since oil began".

Some examples of famous misanthropes are Walt Kowalski from Gran Torino (just watched it on the new Blue Ray, great!), the Jack Nickolson character in As Good As It Gets, Swift's Guliver and of course Dickens Scrooge.

The opposite of a misanthropist is literally philanthropist - one who "loves" humanity, although not in modern usage I guess. Not sure what the opposite would be today, "bleeding-heart"? I can't come up with something that isn't usually intended to be a slighting of liberals, LOL!

This comes to me because I find myself lately really hoping for another boomlet to take off in the economy, at least a few years of steady-state is OK or even a low grade oppression at least. I have things I'd like to do and beyond that, I have some kids and grandkids I'd like to have a little bit of fun and more, I think given time and continuous price pressure people can and will evolve.

So anyway, come clean on how much you detest the Sheeple, Kudzu Ape, Soylent-Input-Unit...

BTW, I'm a 4


Corny/doomer are the only choice as far as outlook, either you think things will continue apace or you don't.

[DomusAlbion]

OK Pops. I haven't posted or been here much for some 8 weeks as you know, but I could not pass this one up.

I'm definitely a Scrooge/Doomer, however I take exception to the characterization that is attached to that category. I and my wife are far from failures. We've both been successful in our careers and rather fortunate in most matters. We have a good combined income (pension and her salary) that puts us in the top 10%, we're nearly out of debt (goal is to be free by 12/13). We've got a plan and we're working it. We also give a good sum of money to local charity each month; some out of genuine care for others but also as a tax deduction.

My wife remains outgoing and genial, but shares my outlook for the long term state of the Western world. I on the other hand have become more reticent and aloof toward most people. The truth is I've lost most of my faith in my fellow man, especially those living in North America, Europe and specifically in the USA. I believe we not only face an unsolvable dilemma in the coming resource shortages, sovereign debt but also a crippling crisis in our civilization. Their ignorance (deliberate of not) to our future is appalling and this lack of forethought extends from the lowest and least educated to those who would be our leaders. They continue to hope/believe that things will continue as they are/were. They all make me sick with dread.

Accordingly we have isolated and insulated ourselves from this modern/”train wreck a coming” world and are attempting to set up a lifeboat for us and our family (in spite of and forgiving of their own ignorant hubris)

[scas]

The problem with being an all encompassing environmentalist aka earth lover is that the death of species, biosphere, other people, even future, all feels like a personal loss.

Yet in reality few people care about me. It seems most of the public operates as machinery on an extremely superficial level. But this is more societal conditioning than who we really are.

I'm a rabid doomer but as on a burning plane you hope to make the best of a bad situation. I need to become more scrooge/meh.

[Pops]

Hi Dom, good to see you,

I take exception to the characterization ... I and my wife are far from failures.

I don't blame you, I feel the same way.

My point is, dismissing doomers' arguments by mischaracterizing them as "Wishing for the end of the world" and surmising doomers hate humanity because they are failures, is a strawman.

If, on the other hand, we find through the rigors of this scientific polling that most doomers are misanthropic and do want humanity to end then obviously it isn't a mischaracterization so not a strawman.

[DomusAlbion]

If, on the other hand, we find through the rigors of this scientific polling that most doomers are misanthropic and do want humanity to end then obviously it isn't a mischaracterization so not a strawman.

Yes, scientific, erm

Well, I am most certainly a curmudgeon and perhaps a misanthrope but I do not in any way wish to see the end of humanity or see the end of the great civilization we have built (or at least had in the recent past). And I love babies too!

I just think the process of decay has started and the outcome is inevitable. In other words: we're doomed; just as at a certain point in its life the Roman Empire was doomed (like when they went up against the Persian Empire one too many times).

[Tanada]

I am definitely a bleeding heart doomer, I know the end is coming but I do my bets to help everyone get by on the way down to our future level. I know I might not make it all the way down, but by golly I am not going to push others ahead to try and make a soft cushion for me to land on either.

That is why I participated in Pops nationwide soil sample request and why I post info like the Chinese wheelbarrow site I found, if you do what little things you can for others then you did right by the world. If all you do is take and never give back then you might come out a little ahead in some ways, but you will be way behind in others and nobody will be willing to help you when you really need it down the road a ways.

[Newfie]

5.4 Meh going to Scrooge.

I don't like to think of the suffering, but we brought it on ourselves.

[Cog]

I would have to put myself in the Scrooge/Doomer category with a caveat.

I can be your best buddy if you fall on hard times due to mistakes in your thinking, circumstances beyond your control, and just some bad luck. I will help you back onto your feet.

But if you ever try to use me, screw me over, or if you want to bring chaos into my life because you like living that way, I will turn as cold as ice towards you and you will be essentially dead to me. I do believe in redemption and forgiveness for those people but I'm pretty good at ferreting out the truth on the matter.

[autonomous]

A social networking site for misanthropes? When's the IPO?

[dinopello]

Doomer that oscillates around Meh.

I do want to know who is the Corny-Scrooge. That's a scary combo!

[KingM]

Doomer that oscillates around Meh.

I do want to know who is the Corny-Scrooge. That's a scary combo!

That's me. None of the categories really fit me, but I'm "civilization will barely survive PO" category. I think it will be ugly because humans are short-term thinking idiots, but I think there is enough energy available if we would pull our heads out. I think we'll do it, but not in time to avoid major pain.