[stephankrasner]

I was perplexed by Santorum's statement that people should not go to college and that going there will "hurt our country". Does anyone really believe that?

[vtsnowedin]

I was perplexed by Santorum's statement that people should not go to college and that going there will "hurt our country". Does anyone really believe that?

Not everyone is cut out for college level teaching. For them college is a waste of time and money.
The poll was overly simplistic. There should be options for people going to the highest level of schooling where they might succeed. We can't all be college professors after all . Somebody has to be the plumber and the guy driving the wrecker. And no we can't have all those jobs done by illegal aliens.

[Beery1]

As a teenager whose father insisted I go out to work at 16 and bring in money for him to spend on A/V equipment, get-rich-quick scams, healing crystals and fricken copper bracelets, I'm kinda for mandatory college. It might have allowed me to have a better start on a career track, and it might have taught my dad some critical thinking and money management skills.

[Unconventional Ideas]

Most people simply aren't interested in academics.

With the collapse of America's Second Gilded Age, it's clear that trade school is going to be the best bet for the majority of people.

Also, for those who won't be attending further education, getting hands-on skills will be of great benefit.

[SeaGypsy]

I write this on my lunch break at my job as University tutor, I chose the last option. I believe in workplace training and old school apprenticeships. I don't have any kind of degree, but don't have any trouble getting or keeping work at a professional level. I would concede that I could have shortened my path by about 10 years by going to Uni first, but I had no real idea what I wanted to do and I still don't (enough to commit to a degree) at 45 years old.

[Cloud9]

Read The Bell Curve. A degree in history is great if you can get a job teaching. If not it might be better to learn how to tear down a small engine or pull the bend out of a bumper.

[careinke]

I just found out my sharecropper for the wheat lands, (my wife's cousin), has a PHD in Economic Behavior and Business. Go figure. I knew he used to teach at Purdue, but I thought it was something related to Agriculture.

Every year when he sends the check, he provides a very nice status of the world and how it relates to Agriculture in general, and the wheat lands in particular. I always enjoy his treatise.

I don't think you need a PHD in economics to be a farmer, but I'm glad he has one.

[stephankrasner]

I would concede that I could have shortened my path by about 10 years by going to Uni first, but I had no real idea what I wanted to do and I still don't (enough to commit to a degree) at 45 years old.

People think college college time equals real world experience. It doesn't. The real purpose of school is developing your ability to learn. Your degree at the end signals to employers or business partners that you have obtained that ability. It shortens your path by allowing you to progress faster than those with out degrees in that field. I started out making a lot less than others in my field who went straight into work, but 5 years in, the tables are turned.

More education, trade school or otherwise is exactly what people need right now.

[SeaGypsy]

More education, trade school or otherwise is exactly what people need right now.

Define people and more as used in this sentence?

Even though Universities are now starting to incorporate sustainability studies across the board, no amount of study will make society sustainable. I have heard 2 lecturers in the last week put it:

"Really it's too late to save the world or our economies from breaking down. It's too late to stop the methane leakage in Siberia/ Canada. The multiplier effect is now taking hold and there's no way back. However, there will be opportunities for you (students) as society makes attempts to turn itself around."

A horticulturist was focusing on carbon credit systems emerging and on the dangers of monoculture farming. A town planner was talking about green design and alternative energy systems. Ultimately a discussion of how to profit on the way down.

There is no discussion about opting out, downsizing/ downshifting, it's all about making money in a changing world. All of which leads back to Jevons' paradox, more efficiency leading to more consumption, more breeding, more problems.

[Tanada]

When I enrolled in College in 1985 I was told that 50% of enrolling freshmen never get to the Bachelor degree level. Judging by all the people I have met since then I would say 50% of those who do get a Bachelors degree wasted 4 years and learned very little outside of where the best party bars in town were. IMO 25% of those who enrolled in college benefited from the experience by actually learning something useful or learning how to figure out problems they encounter in the real world. Of the 100% who went through grade school the 75% who never even enrolled in college and the 12% who dropped out before achieving a Bachelor degree are almost all still alive and working and paying taxes living out normal successful lives. Not everyone is a 'high achiever' but several percent of this 87% are very successful business owners. Many more are highly skilled in what they do and make a good living doing it. College offered nothing for them in the fields they choose to work in and thus would have been a complete and total wasted expense, both financially and temporally.

[SeaGypsy]

In my country of employment only half of all men in professional occupations hold any kind of degree, while 90% of women in parallel positions do.

If you have the temperament and disposition to commit to many years of study to earn a very specific career requirement, besides the aptitude, the world has been your oyster. That hasn't changed and isn't likely to for the forseeable. Choose wisely and work diligently. In this sense I agree with the OP's exposed position.

Where I strongly disagree is in that the era of surplus creating b/s jobs for degree holders of no particular merit besides this is rapidly drawing to a close. Better to have a good long honest stare in the mirror and do something you know you can do, than spend years earning a useless degree whilst building a false sense of self worth leading to perpetual under-employment and a grudge against similarly qualified more successful peers.

[Roryrules]

When I enrolled in College in 1985 I was told that 50% of enrolling freshmen never get to the Bachelor degree level. Judging by all the people I have met since then I would say 50% of those who do get a Bachelors degree wasted 4 years and learned very little outside of where the best party bars in town were. IMO 25% of those who enrolled in college benefited from the experience by actually learning something useful or learning how to figure out problems they encounter in the real world.

Wow, are you sure about those figures? In the UK nearly half of all students now go to University and I personally know of only a couple of people who have dropped out. The vast majority are still here, working their arses off to complete their dissertations. I can't remember the last time I had, or almost anyone else on my course, had a fun night out getting pissed...

Oh, and Degrees are not so much about becoming an expert in that field, it's about the 'transferable skills' that employers love. The ability to critical evaluate evidence and then use it to construct a persuasive argument. A History student isn't likely to end up as a historian, instead they'll probably find themselves an office job working for some big financial firm in the City.

So to sum up; I don't think University is for everybody, but I do believe that large numbers can benefit from higher education. As automation and outsourcing steadily erode low skilled jobs we in the Western World will only survive by having a well-educated workforce able to do the jobs computers and cheap labour can't.

[Pops]

You guys are missing the point, Santorum thinks education makes you a liberal thinker, that most evil of all fates.

“President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob,” said [Santorum]... “There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren’t taught by some liberal college professor to try to indoctrinate them. Oh, I understand why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image.”

But aside from that bit of paranoia, I think anyone who has the aptitude and can go without racking up a huge debt should continue as far as possible in school. Having a degree may not enable you but not having one can certainly disable you. But an apprenticeship or trade school is just as good a choice, again depending on aptitude.

The worst thing is to be at loose ends and just float into whatever comes along.

[vision-master]

My nephew never completed his GED - he has his own foaming business. For most ppl, college is the easy way out (they think).

[WildRose]

Definitely not everyone should go. It would be nice if all kids leaving high school (or even all young adults) knew what they wanted to do, but how many have a clear path mapped out in their heads? I think the ones who were always the high achievers in school may be more inclined to know what degree they'd like to earn, and so would be more likely to be successful in university. But for some, it's simply not the best route to success. Many people are successful in trades (apprenticeships) or other one or two-year programs offered in technical schools, and often these people go on to build their own business. Also, I think it's still possible to do well with only a high school diploma if you choose a good company to work for, start at the entry level and just work hard. One of my kids works for a multinational company and is learning a lot, and he quite regularly gets offers from other companies when he's at work. I think this is so because he presents himself well, he's on the ball so to speak and has great "people skills". These are qualities that don't go out of style and can serve a person well.

[Pretorian]

I was perplexed by Santorum's statement that people should not go to college and that going there will "hurt our country". Does anyone really believe that?

It will hurt them much more than it will hurt the country. If they pay for college with their own money. Oh, wait...

[Cog]

Exactly how many Republican-bashing threads do we need on the board?

Merge this with the other one.

[Pretorian]

I had a friend who was founding a University in Burundi along with the French, awhile ago. I don't know how much of what he said was true, and too lazy to google it, but he said they were accepting 2000 students and graduating 7 or 8. And each of them was getting a hell of a job.

[Pretorian]

The real purpose of school is developing your ability to learn. Your degree at the end signals to employers or business partners that you have obtained that ability.

You are assuming that a school is always reaching it's alleged purpose? So naive.. Your degree at the end signals to employers that you are able to eat shit at command, with a timer on. That's it.

[vision-master]

Conformists see no other choice than going to college.