[SilentRunning]

"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar

I find the Anti-doomer's tagline to be deliberately irritating - because it is so obviously a lie.

If Malthus were always wrong, then we should see no famines in human history. In the entirety of human experience, any time human beings ran out of food, then human innovation would quickly kick in and solve the problem. Malthus would be laughably wrong, because clearly human beings are simply incapable of running out of food.

Yet, a glance at human history shows that famines involving millions of people are a regular occurrence. Anti-Malthusian dreamers must speculate that the people involved were simply too dimwitted to "innovate" their way out of their jam. For example, the Chinese in the Great North China Famine of 1877–78 must have all been imbeciles, because an estimated 9.5 to 13 million of them starved to death.

Therefore - I propose a simple, straightforward way for our "anti-doomer" to prove to us that Malthus is wrong, and that he is a genius showing how much he can "innovate" out of a jam.

We will lock our anti-doomer alone in a closed cell - an 8 foot cube. Into this cell, we will provide no food or water. If the anti-doomer can innovate his way out of this jam and live for 6 months, then we will concede that Malthus was an idiot, and that humans can ALWAYS innovate their way out of any predicament.

Because I am not cruel, I will allow the Anti-doomer to leave the cell at any time - provided he simply presses a button that says "Malthus was and is RIght!"

[SeaGypsy]

+1.
Darwin & Malthus are not even contradictory. There is not a damn thing about die-off that contradicts evolution.

[Narz]

Darwin was largely inspired by Malthus, IIRC. Of course he still might have come to his theories without him, who knows. Either way, there are no guarantees for any species.

[SilentRunning]

+1.
Darwin & Malthus are not even contradictory. There is not a damn thing about die-off that contradicts evolution.

Indeed. If there was no lack of resources, there would never be any need for evolutionary change.

Malthus' ideas were central to Darwin's - as Darwin noted that many more offspring were born than could survival - hence the "survival of the fittest". In the absence of this, there would be the "survival for all".

[ralfy]

Good points! Also, natural selection is not the same as innovation. If any, innovation may even go against natural selection.

Also, not only is natural selection connected to several of Malthus' views, innovation may even lead to the problems described by Malthus, i.e., innovation as part of industrialization may accelerate resource use, eventually contributing to factors leading to peak oil.

[SeaGypsy]

No need to be iffy about it Ralphy, it's a fact. Just as it's a fact that without innovation we are doubly screwed.

[Anvil]

I think anti-doomers are people who encourage others not to have realistic or independent thoughts so everyone is just as helpless as them when the crisis comes.
2007/2008 is a good example of a world listening to anti-doomers.

[Beery1]

I think taglines are best when they're irritating. But yes, that particular one is kinda silly. However, it's not a lie - it's just an opinion, and not a very smart one.

The quote generally assumes that humans are always going to be survivors in the Darwinian sense. Global Warming (and to a lesser extent Peak Oil) may show that idea to be false, and they undoubtedly will show Malthus to have been right. K.R. Sridhar is an engineer, but he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to biology, geography, population or limits to growth.

I do like the OP's proposed experiment.

I think the lesson of Anti-doomer's tagline is this: People need to be very careful when quoting people who are talking outside of their area of expertise.

[Novus]

Both Darwin and Malthus are in agreement of both being doomers. They only differ in the method. Die-off or Kill-off that is the real question. Let nature take its' course or organize a culling of the excess population. Either way we are doomed. Survival of the Species cares not for individuals.

[AdTheNad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._R._Sridhar

K. R. Sridhar (born c. 1960) is the founder and CEO of Bloom Energy.

Well, the Bloom box hasn't saved the world yet, and oil keeps getting more expensive.

I quite like the quote, as it reminds me that some people will always be immune to learning from reality, and can even come up with nonsensical sayings to prove it.

[TheAntiDoomer]

Gee Whiz, someone got their pants in a bunch about a tagline

Actually Bloom Box's are being implemented all over California, you will surely be hearing more and more about them in the future.

What does the President’s vow not to “walk away from the promise of clean energy” mean for California?

http://blogs.kqed.org/climatewatch/2012 ... a-promise/

Sunnyvale’s Bloom Energy has benefited from federal investment tax credits, spurring the installation of Bloom box fuel cells throughout the state, from Google and Adobe in Northern California to Caltech in Southern California; and the creation of 1,500 green jobs. In addition, the California Air Resources board recently approved new rules to accelerate the move to zero-emission electric cars which will encourage California electric carmakers, Tesla, Fisker, and CODA. Tesla Motors has set up shop in Fremont’s old NUMMI (GM-Toyota) plant and expects to create 400 jobs this quarter as it ramps up production of its Model S sedan.

[vision-master]

So much for the 'new attitude' here..........

[Beery1]

My only observation on the Bloom Box is this: it runs on natural gas. Natural gas is a fossil fuel in limited supply. By the time anyone's Bloom Box reaches a break even point, the likelihood is that no one will be able to fuel it anymore.

Also, natural gas is mostly methane - a greenhouse gas. When put through the Bloom Box it creates carbon dioxide - another greenhouse gas. How anyone can claim that something that runs on natural gas and produces greenhouse gases is 'clean energy' is a mystery to me.

[Corella]

Hi there,
i´d guess Malthus did believe stronger in figures than Darwin, who first carefully observed and then concluded.

[Wootan]

Here be anti-doomers? Great! They will keep you from falling head first into the ditch of total and immediate doom.

[SilentRunning]

Gee Whiz, someone got their pants in a bunch about a tagline

So, how about AntiDoomer? Would you be willing to enter "the cube of truth", and subsist for 6 months on innovation alone?

Remember, you can always leave the cube - all you have to do is admit that Malthus was right after all. In which case, all that will be damaged will be your position and your pride

Alternatively, you can show us how your vast intellect can overcome any and all physical limitations, and make all of us doomers look like fools.

[dinopello]

The only tagline I remember from Anti-Doomer was the "Do I make you corny ?" which I thought was kind of cute.

[SilentRunning]

So, how about AntiDoomer? Would you be willing to enter "the cube of truth", and subsist for 6 months on innovation alone?

Remember, you can always leave the cube - all you have to do is admit that Malthus was right after all. In which case, all that will be damaged will be your position and your pride

Alternatively, you can show us how your vast intellect can overcome any and all physical limitations, and make all of us doomers look like fools.

The silence from AntiDoomer is deafening...