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Could history repeat itself!

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Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 25 May 2012, 14:29:14

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18159752

The social unrest, economic gloom and austerity in Europe today mirrors one of the greatest crises in British history, says the historian Michael Wood.

The news from Europe is getting worse by the day. Economic gloom across the continent and multiple crises in the currency zone.

With rising unemployment and inflation there are riots in the streets with forecasts of anarchy in some parts of western Europe.

And along with the simmering discontent there is a worrying rise of radical groups and populist right wing movements. In the fringes, secessionists are pushing for independence, indeed for the break up of the whole European order under which we have all lived secure and comfortable for so long.

At home in Britain there are worrying signs in every town - cuts in public services have led to closures of public baths and libraries, the failure of road maintenance, breakdowns in the food supply and civic order.


Anti-austerity protests in Rome While political commentators and church leaders talk about a "general decline in morality" and "public apathy", the rich retreat to their mansions and country estates and hoard their cash.

It all sounds eerily familiar doesn't it? But this is not Angela Merkel's eurozone - it is Roman Britannia towards the year 400, the period of the fall of the Roman Empire.


Are we about to see a repeat of the collapse of the Roman Empire?
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Pops » Fri 25 May 2012, 15:51:21

No, a little austerity to get the moochers off the dole is all that's needed. Just cut taxes on the rich and spending on the poor and all will be well. We're coming along right behind.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 25 May 2012, 16:17:36

Its funny how most of the historians,economists, bankers and other non-scientific types think this is a pure economic crisis, rather then realizing we are hitting limits to economic growth just as predicted 30 years ago due to high prices for peak oil and peak commodities.

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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Pops » Fri 25 May 2012, 18:00:50

hey wait a minute, I just said in another thread we'd burn the furniture!

Now which is it?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 25 May 2012, 22:08:52

Pops wrote:No, a little austerity to get the moochers off the dole is all that's needed. Just cut taxes on the rich and spending on the poor and all will be well. We're coming along right behind.


I knew you'd come around and see the light!
You are, after all, one of the landed wealthy. Welcome to voting your interests!


(yeye, jk i know... sigh...)
Yes we are, as we are,
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby radon » Sat 26 May 2012, 02:45:06

pstarr wrote: and I am confident that republicans will replace petroleum when that runs out.


Your cornie fantasy may prove wrong. So far only Greek retirees have been tested as the replacement.
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Quinny » Sat 26 May 2012, 05:31:49

Please tell me you left the sarcasm icon off :(
Pops wrote:No, a little austerity to get the moochers off the dole is all that's needed. Just cut taxes on the rich and spending on the poor and all will be well. We're coming along right behind.
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby sparky » Sat 26 May 2012, 06:26:44

.
Wrong historical analogy , the Western part of the Roman empire collapsed
due to the collapse of its taxation base ,
the marauding bands of barbarians were given or took the title Dux with the right and privilege
to levy taxes directly as food contribution to feed their troops ,
the late Roman silver coins were wretched thing with less than 3% silver content ,

the economy reverted to barter ,much to the satisfaction of the food producers
local authorities were not too sad to see the back of the Roman private contractors doing the
collecting ,coin money practically disappeared ,
the barbarians were way cheaper and at least they were running an efficient protection racket

the first to go was Gaul , then the Visigoths cut the same deal in Spain and the Vandals had North Africa.
the Easter half did fine for another thousand years

The best analogy is probably Easter island , overpopulation saw a depletion of resources
the disappearance of anything bigger than a bush and a collapse in the political system
leading to endemic warfare
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Roryrules » Sat 26 May 2012, 07:18:10

dolanbaker wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18159752

Are we about to see a repeat of the collapse of the Roman Empire?


I saw that article earlier, it has to be one of the worst history pieces I've ever seen. The Western Roman Empire collapsed because of internal political and economic trouble. Constant civil wars and succession crises are rarely a recipe for success.

It should also be pointed out that the Fourth Century was something of a Golden Age for Roman Britain and indeed large swathes of the Roman Empire. Usually hindsight is a good thing, but in this case it skews our view and makes people assume that the later Roman Empire was one in terminal decline. It wasn't.
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby GWCorsair » Mon 28 May 2012, 06:34:53

Greetings everyone...

I have a question. I have read the other posts and many are...let us say...interesting. 8O And so, going out on a limb...knowing full well that the cat callers and bad mouthers will jump right in...I am still inclined to ask...does anyone really expect oil to last forever. Ok, maybe not forever...but can we sustain our current rate of consumption and reasonably expect production to keep pace?

If you look around yourselves, I challenge each of you to find a single item in your immediate surrounding that is not tied to oil in one way or another. Our entire world is coated in crude. It flows into every nook and cranny of society. As we reach the mile stone..."Peak Oil"...is it any wonder that we are seeing the beginning signs of withdrawal in the form of global unrest, societal breakdown, economic panic, and a general, worldwide, sense of impending doom?

Yes, it is part of our known human history that kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall...it happens for many reasons...chief among them is the loss of resources. So as you feel the trickle of cold sweat down the back of your neck and the tightness in your gut takes root...try to remember that we are living in the best of times...and the worst of times...we are living at a time when money and power are no longer the real issues that drive society...it is now about destiny. It is about the future and our place in it...

The short version? Time to grow up.
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Cog » Mon 28 May 2012, 12:01:38

Pops wrote:No, a little austerity to get the moochers off the dole is all that's needed. Just cut taxes on the rich and spending on the poor and all will be well. We're coming along right behind.


Yes. By all means lets continue 46 million people on food stamps, over 49% of the US population paying zero federal income tax, and trillion dollar deficits. That is perfectly sustainable in the world of a person hell-bent on voting for Obama in November.

Keep dreaming your wealth distribution fantasies Pops. They make for much amusement for those who have figured out the end game.

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby careinke » Mon 28 May 2012, 12:23:20

Cog wrote:
Pops wrote:No, a little austerity to get the moochers off the dole is all that's needed. Just cut taxes on the rich and spending on the poor and all will be well. We're coming along right behind.


Yes. By all means lets continue 46 million people on food stamps, over 49% of the US population paying zero federal income tax, and trillion dollar deficits. That is perfectly sustainable in the world of a person hell-bent on voting for Obama in November.

Keep dreaming your wealth distribution fantasies Pops. They make for much amusement for those who have figured out the end game.

:lol: :lol:


Don't you know big government is the answer to everything? We should give all our income to the big smart government who will take care of us and protect us. After all, we are just stupid proles unable to decide what is best for us, and we need guidance from our benevolent government.

The government will make sure we all get our fair share. If we just keep stealing, I mean taxing the rich, we will have enough resources for everyone, forever! We will just keep getting them from the rich.

Who is John Galt?
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby Cog » Mon 28 May 2012, 12:37:58

I would like the rich to do the following for me:

1) Plant a garden in my yard, maintain it, harvest the food, bring it in the house and cook it for me

2)Fix my cedar fence as it costs me real money to buy boards

3) Let me work 10 hrs a week instead of usual 45-50. I want to spend more time with my family and its obvious the rich man can make that happen for me

4) Paint my house since I've been putting it off due to my laziness.

I think that is pretty much it for now, but I can think of many more things the rich can do for me, if we can only increase their marginal tax rate and also redistribute their ill-gotten capital gains. Plus, think of all the government union jobs that can be saved or created by taking care of my personal needs at the rich folk's expense. After all, the rich are evil and none of them deserve to be where they are.
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby careinke » Mon 28 May 2012, 15:01:26

Wow, I think I'll become a Dem. It's much easier, and a lot more fun to blame other people for my problems, instead of fixing them myself. Hey Six, how long do I have to wait until the government sends me some of those rich peoples money?
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Re: Could history repeat itself!

Unread postby sparky » Mon 28 May 2012, 18:33:45

.
@ GWCorsair , yes oil will last forever , at least longer than human civilisation
the point is that it will diminish as an everyday commodity due to its rising price
burning it for thermal application is the first usage to shrink
burning it for motive power will then come under pressure
it always ( more or less) will be used for the high price usage like pharmacology
and non destructive use like protective coating

interestingly that was it's first uses
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