[mmasters]

I think we will see a return of stronger people, people with more character and class. Not in entirety but I think it will be good for a subset of the population. There's too much self-indulgence/instant gratification today and team orientedness. Music is a good example, so much metiocrity out there and much fewer individuals rising to the top then past generations. Everybody is looking for "the party" but almost nobody has the attitude to make their own party. I say good riddence to this current generation of excess, it's turned or rather influenced a lot of people into crap relative to the past generations that built this country.

[Lore]

We're going to do that with Romney!

[glaucus]

Don't get to indignant just yet about music. I thought it was all crap nowadays too, but there's a ton of good tunes out there. The problem these days is that it's not easy to find; it's not spilling out over commercial radio stations anymore. Now, you have to seek it out. But it is out there - on the internet. All kinds of music, too - rock, jazz, (real) country, indie, blues, whatever you're into.

In the same vein, you can find people nowadays who are strong with character and class, but again - it's not everywhere... you have to seek it out. Perhaps you're right and that will change in a peak oil future. I can only hope so.

[SeaGypsy]

I think this is a thoroughly interesting premise. The music industry is not the best example, technology has changed so much and become so uch more available, music is a totally different market to 20 or more years ago. More to the point is the massive number (%) of people with no particular 'built in' talent, who have been doing quite nicely during the age of abundance. Also the more massive number who have done terribly badly, despite having perhaps the much stronger constitution; simply by 'luck' of birth.

It is already possible to see the re-entry of Darwinian principles; not that they ever went away, merely have been thwarted for a few generations.

[Beery1]

I think we will see a return of stronger people, people with more character and class...

Ah, the myth that 'Once upon a time, people were brave, strong, heroic and good'. I won't hold my breath.

[SeaGypsy]

You are too jaded Beery, once upon a time never went away; breath. Breath again. Search elsewhere.

[Pops]

The best music is whatever is playing when you are 14, the best people are the ones that look and act and are just like you -

"Like-Minded"

Don't expect PO to remake the world in your image.

[soilmaker]

I recommend the book "The Upside of Down..Catastrophe, Creativity and the Renewal of Civilization" by Thomas Homer-Dixon (2006). I especially liked what he had to say about the breakdown of complex systems.

p.23 " ...some complex systems adapt to their changing environment by going through a four-stage cycle of growth, breakdown, reorganization, and renewal....while breakdown is essential to long-run adaptation and renewal, it must not be too severe. In other words, breakdown must be constrained....for [renewal] to happen.
Of course, even constrained breakdown...can hurt many people, sometimes very badly. But it can also shatter the forces standing in the way of change and the deeply entrenched and too-comfortable mindsets that keep people from seeing exciting possibilities for renewal.
(p.24) But beware. Breakdown can also usher in a period of great danger --- of turmoil, confusion, frustration, and anger---a period when demagogues can rush into the breach and turn one group against another with ferocious violence.
'In times of upheaval', wrote the great Irish poet W. B Yeats in "The Second Coming", 'the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.' When social breakdown happens, as it will in coming years, we can be sure that the worst will be full of passionate intensity. We must be equally sure that the best will have the conviction, the knowledge, and the resources to prevail."

Let's hope so.

[Pops]

Thanks Soilmaker, true words I think. One of our old admins said "don't fear PO, fear the reaction."

[mmasters]

The best music is whatever is playing when you are 14, the best people are the ones that look and act and are just like you - "Like-Minded"
Don't expect PO to remake the world in your image.

No, but there are silver linings in all this, whether you refuse to see them is another matter...

[Roryrules]

I think we will see a return of stronger people, people with more character and class.

It must be nice viewing the world through those rose-tinted spectacles of yours.

[mmasters]

I think we will see a return of stronger people, people with more character and class.

It must be nice viewing the world through those rose-tinted spectacles of yours.

As opposed to the doo doo brown-tinted glasses you're wearing?

[SeaGypsy]

Living in a modern city for the first time in 20 years it has become apparent that there is a simultaneous emergence of more intense competition, with a more civil and socially responsible expectation. however I'm on Australia with 5% unemployment and minimum wage about $600 a week. It's easy to see places doing better and worse than others. I think this might be where those proposing the pending death of globalism are correct, the philosophy is in trouble, rather than the trade aspect. One for all, all for one, mmmm? Not likely. Founding and building on communities at all scales, in restricted locals according to proximity to key resources... Lots to keep us on our toes.

[mmasters]

It will. . . reduce human population. . . Overall I give it a big thumbs up!

You sadist pig.

[Roryrules]

It must be nice viewing the world through those rose-tinted spectacles of yours. As opposed to the doo doo brown-tinted glasses you're wearing?

Not really. I just recognise that throughout the ages people have been people, neither better nor worse than us today. There have always been plenty of thieves, murderers and despots just as there have always been lots of kind, selfless and caring individuals. Peak Oil ain't gonna change that.