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Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

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Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby mattduke » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 20:39:12

Any ex-pat with either a net worth of over $2 million, or an average income tax liability of at least $148,000 over the last five years, "will be presumed to have renounced their citizenship for tax avoidance purposes." The ex-pat will have to demonstrate to the IRS that this is not the case if it is not. If there is a "legitimate reason" for that person living outside the U.S. no penalties will apply. But if the IRS finds that someone gave up their passport for tax purposes, they will impose a tax on that individual's investment gains "no matter where he or she resides."

The rate of that capital gains tax will be 30 percent -- the same that non-resident aliens currently pay on dividends and interest earnings.The tax detailed this act, if approved, will backdate for 10 years after its approval.

Hint, when the dollar crashes and a loaf of bread costs $5000, your "capital gains taxes" will be enormous.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... aw/257368/
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 23:34:01

That is unenforceable unless the citizen holds their money or their person in the USA. I am a US citizen by birth and have no SS number and have never lodged a US tax return, but I am still entitled to a passport and SS number. I doubt I will ever go to the USA again, but if I did and the Government there tried to backdate tax me, I would happily spit in my passport, hand it to them and fly on the next plane out.
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 23:47:51

SeaGypsy wrote:That is unenforceable unless the citizen holds their money or their person in the USA. I am a US citizen by birth and have no SS number and have never lodged a US tax return, but I am still entitled to a passport and SS number. I doubt I will ever go to the USA again, but if I did and the Government there tried to backdate tax me, I would happily spit in my passport, hand it to them and fly on the next plane out.


Whatever you do, do not spit on your passport in the airport and make a scene -- you may get tasered by TSA. Be happy you're Australian.

As for enforcement, I think what they do is just don't let you back in if you left then try to return later. There is already a law like this on the books, it's just very rarely enforced.

So.. if you have no IRS records here.. I'm 90% sure you're fine SG, they're not going to go after your earnings in Australia.

My advice, just relax, don't be rash hang on to that US passport. In a Mad Max apocalypse scenario it may just be your ticket out of somewhere.

P.S. this is all about that Facebook guy who gave up his citizenship. It's for millionaires and billionaires who really are just being tax-dodging cretins and "global citizens" taking all that America did for them and running off with it. I fully support it. We are a country not a UN trade zone.
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 05 Jun 2012, 00:23:26

The first time I have been tempted to 'come home' has been since the crash, based on land prices. Land here is Oz is ridiculously overpriced. A truly fertile hectare (2.4 acres) anywhere here will cost $100k+++ even many hours drive from any town with all services. From what I have seen, I could buy some exquisite acreage in the USA for 1/10th the price. Then be stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Last time I was in the USA (91) I had my cigarettes checked for dope and told the dude in Hawaii I was 'coming home'. I am white and I work for a living, I guess that makes me ok in the USA?
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby dsula » Tue 05 Jun 2012, 11:46:47

SeaGypsy wrote:I am white and I work for a living, I guess that makes me ok in the USA?

That makes you a minority.
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:57:54

SeaGypsy wrote:From what I have seen, I could buy some exquisite acreage in the USA for 1/10th the price. Then be stuck in the middle of nowhere.


Well, that depends on what your definition of "middle of nowhere is," most "rural" places in the US aren't going to be as rural as you're used to in Australia I think. Unless you go to Alaska.

A place like Florida, housing market's been very affordable for years now. If you want affordable "fertile land" as in you want to grow things, you can get that an hour inland from the coasts. You're still within hours drive of world class tourist destinations, and urban activities. Personally I'm sick of the place but objectively Florida's got it all you can't ask for more. Plus no state income tax here.

Perfect locale for me would be something like the pac northwest, those gorgeous forests, mountains and be near the coast too I can't ever give up the ocean. You may like parts of Oregon or northern Cali, it's a quirky liberal mindset plus West Coast a bit closer to Oz.

Some states like North Dakota / South Dakota and Wyoming are doing really well economy wise. Shale oil and whatnot. These states never even had a recession.

The American South is super cheap land wise. The South north of Florida though, you're going to be in Dixie culture with a lot of twang and lovely oddities like snake-handling evangelical churches. Personally I can't handle it, it's like a whole other country the Bible Belt culture is suffocating.

Texas is horrid don't even think of it.

New England is nice.. Vermont is rural, pretty, and liberal. You can get some good deals on land in upstate New York (that's Kunstler's doom spot).

If you've got a travellin' itch, why not try it SG? You're a US citizen. You can just fly here and give it a go. Of course you have young kids if I recall, that's got to be a big decision getting them settled in school for at least a few years, then it's disruption to uproot them, and do you want them to culturally be American or Australian.

On balance, given all I know, I think in general Australia sounds better for the future. Although I imagine it must feel darn ISOLATED down there. My top pick would be New Zealand, kiwis seem like such nice people.

I am white and I work for a living, I guess that makes me ok in the USA?


Lot has changed since '91. There's no problem being black in the US.

Anyhow, everyone likes Australians so you'd do fine. Where I live it's quite international, we have many Brits here with their vacation homes, Germans, Ukrainian immigrants, Latinos from all over, and a mix of Americans who resettled here from all over the US.
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 05 Jun 2012, 18:16:31

I do hope to do a proper road trip one day...
Money is a biggie for me, not isolation. With wife and 2 youngsters I am in trouble when I don't clear $1k a week in Oz. Hardly a day goes by I don't think of dropping the money game and going back to the land (I have done years of farm work). There are things which appeal to me about the USA still, particularly the strength of the old crafts. Being a Venetian glass artist of course there are many studios I would like to visit, many boatbuilders also, and I would like to check out some of the intentional communities.
There is also an issue with employment, where in Australia it has taken me many years to develop the skills and flexibility to remain consistently employed, with a choice of building, arts, disability support and teaching, all without even a diploma. One of the key things I have learned is to never become one of the unwillingly unemployed. Finding a job is 10 times easier when you already have one or don't need the money. To land in the USA with family in tow I would need a fair whack of change. My instinct would be to buy an RV in California, drive out of town, paint some signs on there for restorations work, a few tools and off around the whole continent.

(Also the US visa system is unkind to my wife and kids as I have not lived in the USA as a tax paying adult, it would take 2 years of me working in the country just to get my children's citizenship by descent recognized, another year after that to get my wife's green card etc. All of which is a big burden I don't have too worry about here in Oz.)

Funny talking about north of Florida, my family originated in the Carolinas, moved to PA for a few generations after the civil war, then moved back to SC. I know about the 'quirks'. The ones of working age are all in the 'Jesus Business'.
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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby Chief » Wed 06 Jun 2012, 08:55:09

I thought it was not constitional to pass "ex-poste facto" laws in the U.S. Or what am I missing?

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Re: Iron Curtain Inches Lower With Ex-Patriot Law

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 06 Jun 2012, 15:56:43

There are a lot of laws which apply to resident citizens only, a different set of rules for non residents, non resident non taxpayers and non citizen non resident descendants; with the last being virtually unrecognized (as evidenced by thousands of abandoned children of Americans around the world with no recourse under US Law.
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