[Sixstrings]

Please don't merge with Obama thread, the Pacific nafta deal has been going on since Bush it's not all about Obama it's a separate issue.

Obama Trade Document Leaked, Revealing New Corporate Powers And Broken Campaign Promises

WASHINGTON -- A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Public Citizen, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

...

Under the agreement currently being advocated by the Obama administration, American corporations would continue to be subject to domestic laws and regulations on the environment, banking and other issues. But foreign corporations operating within the U.S. would be permitted to appeal key American legal or regulatory rulings to an international tribunal. That international tribunal would be granted the power to overrule American law and impose trade sanctions on the United States for failing to abide by its rulings.

The terms run contrary to campaign promises issued by Obama and the Democratic Party during the 2008 campaign.

...

"Bush was better than Obama on this," said Judit Rius, U.S. manager of Doctors Without Borders Access to Medicines Campaign, referring to the medication rules. "It's pathetic, but it is what it is. The world's upside-down."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html

I will say one Obama thing.. if I'm a Ralph Nader type, then what third party can I vote for? I don't like this ^^, when Obama out-Bush's George Bush. Obama is too Republican for me, he would have been too Republican for Reagan or Gerald Ford for that matter.

Now if we can, let's stick discussion to trade deal and the new broad powers for multinational corps TO IGNORE UNITED STATES LAW. Remember, to be multinational ALL AN AMERICAN CORP needs is a darn mailbox in Bermuda or Shanghai.

[Plantagenet]

"Bush was better than Obama on this," said Judit Rius, U.S. manager of Doctors Without Borders Access to Medicines Campaign, referring to the medication rules. "It's pathetic, but it is what it is."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html

Who can still be surprised by the dishonesty and perfidy of Obama. The man has no principles------Every promise Obama made about jobs and fixing the economy in 2008 has been broken. Now we learn that 40% of the median US family's wealth has been destroyed since 2008 while the corps got richer and richer-----and obama has the gall to claim that the US economy is fine. Grrrrr!

[Sixstrings]

Who can still be surprised by the dishonesty and perfidy of Obama. The man has no principles------

He has principles, it's called far right wing corporatist pro-rich principles.

If a Democrat does this, what would Romney do? It's 3d chess we're into here, "only Nixon can go to China" and "only Bush can give seniors script coverage on their Medicare." But I'm sick of it.

Do I have to vote Republican so Democrats will speak up and be Democrats?

Could Romney not get away with this right wing agenda, whereas Obama can?

Will the right wing base find some cajones and oppose this? You can't be Libertarian and in favor of ceding away our national sovereignty to a d*mn "international tribunal" what a bunch of crap.

This will affect FOOD SAFETY, safety from toxic products, everything, we'll be powerless to regulate Chinese and other foreign corps doing what they will here. And then many "American" corps are actually "international" anyway, they can just change their mailbox to the country with the most favorable laws.

[JohnRM]

"We hungry but them belly full
the structure is set you never change it with a ballot pull"

[Oneaboveall]

"We hungry but them belly full
the structure is set you never change it with a ballot pull"

[Loki]

Funny how wingnuts moan incessantly about the UN but conveniently ignore global trade agreements and their impingement of American sovereignty.

[Sixstrings]

Funny how wingnuts moan incessantly about the UN but conveniently ignore global trade agreements and their impingement of American sovereignty.

Yep.

The sound of crickets in this thread is deafening.

They are fundamentally screwy Loki, they honestly don't care about sovereignty of US law when it comes to food safety and banking regulations. I guess they'd rather have Chinese banking laws, who the hell knows. Getting off topic, but actually Russia has better banking regs than we do, we'd do well to adopt them. Maybe the Chinese do as well, hell this may be good news perhaps our laws are crap anyway.

Although..

Something like that toxic Chinese drywall.. the Florida suburbanites complaining about that, they're all Republicans.

Nobody is interested in trade issues. It's always been that way. Perot warned us and we ignored him and that was that. But therefore, nobody can complain anymore about a crappy economy and permanent jobs deficit and neverending economic depression -- these nafta style trade deals are the reason, I'm sorry to everyone if it's dull.

[Timo]

Just a thought, and i know nothing that would substantiate this theory, but it seems to me that the only way an otherwise seemingly honest politician would allow deals like this to be crafted, and then to come out and support them is through some form of blackmail. I suppose everyone already knows that there's unknown levels of curruption at all levels of government all across the planet, but a deal of this magnitude, at this particular time, to be kept secret from your constituency when the ramifications are so disastrous for your country, it just seems to me that TBTP were forced into this predicament. On the surface of what i know about this mess, it sure doesn't seem voluntary, to me.

BTW, that's not an excuse for what has happened, already.

[SeaGypsy]

The blackmail is obvious, so blatant most Americans will never see it. The corporations are doing your government a favour letting you cede sovereignty. When it comes to wage parity, whoever is in the Whitehouse can blame this new international body, who are going to end up being everybody's boss.

[Cloud9]

The internationalists control the world. Fascism and socialism are but different shades of the same totalitarian mechanisms they use to control us. Both will put you on your knees facing a ditch. It makes little difference if the bullet going through your brain is a 9mm or a 7.62. You are dead either way.

If you live by another’s liege you are not free. You are a slave. Your dictator may be benevolent in his relations with you but you are still a slave. On a whim he can and will end your life.

Anyone who thinks we are free is sleepwalking.

[Sixstrings]

Just a thought, and i know nothing that would substantiate this theory, but it seems to me that the only way an otherwise seemingly honest politician would allow deals like this to be crafted, and then to come out and support them is through some form of blackmail.

More like bribery. Campaign donations.

There's another side to this globalism argument, it's not all about money, the liberal globalists think that raising living standards and wages in foreign countries (by exporting our jobs) results in a more peaceful, happier world.

To some degree they're right.

And, could we Americans expect to have high wage jobs forever and ever? I guess not. India deserves something too, one American job here offshored there can employ 10 or 20 for the same price.

But thing is.. I'm an American I'm not a globalist humanist saint in an ivory tower looking down at the world. I don't want my country to level out with Mexico and India and look like a pile of crap with cripples in the street wearing rags and leppers and drug wars.

The subject of this thread is another step though beyond just free trade, now the new international tribunal could rule that Chinese infant formula or dog food is safe even if we think it isn't, even if it doesn't meet US standards, we'll be forced to allow it if the tribunal rules to favor Chinese law.

On and on, China could conceivably get waivers to all kinds of US law from environmental protections to banking regulations. Food and product safety are the biggest concern to we little folks, I'm still mad about that, fickin' dog food killing our dogs and the toxic drywall mess, kids' toys made with lead paint and toxic materials. All that is already going on right now, so what happens if China starts getting waivers to bring Chinese law over here?

[mmasters]

What can you do? Marginalization and covert slavery is becoming more every day.

I'm sure there'll be some interesting "events" in the future.

[Plantagenet]

Nobody is interested in trade issues. It's always been that way. Perot warned us and we ignored him and that was that. But therefore, nobody can complain anymore about a crappy economy and permanent jobs deficit and neverending economic depression -- these nafta style trade deals are the reason, I'm sorry to everyone if it's dull.

These kinds of "free-trade" treaties are so 20th century. They don't make sense any longer.

Its just more evidence that the TPTB don't understand the post-peak oil world. People who see the TPTB as all-knowing are wrong---they are are out-of-touch with the real problems affecting the global economy.

When peak oil drives energy prices high enough, it will no longer be profitable to import drywall and dog food from China----the energy costs will make it too expensive. But TPTB don't get it----they don't understand peak oil.

[SeaGypsy]

Most of the energy used getting a bit of particle board from Beijing to Dallas are used between whatever US port the container lands in and Dallas, with the least efficient part of the journey being from retail to place of use. Shipping is by far the most efficient form of transport; followed by rail, then trucks of descending size, then owner vehicles.

[Timo]

Most of the energy used getting a bit of particle board from Beijing to Dallas are used between whatever US port the container lands in and Dallas, with the least efficient part of the journey being from retail to place of use. Shipping is by far the most efficient form of transport; followed by rail, then trucks of descending size, then owner vehicles.

True, but i think most of the animosity toward the pacific trade deal (and NAFTA) are aimed at the employment and wages factor, that us All-Mighty 'Merikuns are now working for 3rd world wages, in declining conditions, or not at all. The U.S. public cares very little for energy consumption. We think about it, even less. "Jobs" is the mantra of politics here. There is very little concern (maybe even an intentional degredation) given to the fact that workers are very rapidly losing any control over their own lives. "Indepence" seems to have become misconstrued with "financial" independence. Independent control of one's own life is something that politicians seem determined to eradicate. Hence, they frame their arguments in terms of 'jobs at all,' instead of the quality of those jobs. Would you rather make $2.00 an hour, or nothing at all? Would you rather work 10 hours a day, or not at all? Would you rather we transfer all our jobs to foreign countries, or are you willing to work under the same conditions they do, and for the same wages? We have our bottom-line profits to think about. To the factory owners, it makes no difference where their products are made. The divide-and-conquer strategy is simply the owners method of degrading the concept of American independence. The new mantra of the 1% is now "Corporate Independence." They want to level the playing field to the lowest common denominator. That maximizes profits, and sets them firmly in control of the entire planet.

[SeaGypsy]

All of which absolutely guarantees the continued fall of the RE market, which continues the financial crisis and the death of the American middle class.

[bromius]

I will say one Obama thing.. if I'm a Ralph Nader type, then what third party can I vote for? I don't like this ^^, when Obama out-Bush's George Bush. Obama is too Republican for me, he would have been too Republican for Reagan or Gerald Ford for that matter.

Voting for a third party is generally considered 'wasting your vote'. I maintain the opposite - its the only way to make it count. The two party system makes it easy for any large, well funded organization to hedge their bet by contributing to both candidates. I doubt any one third party will be able to pull off a majority in the upcoming election but that isn't the point. The message that needs to be sent is that you, existing power structure are no longer wanted. If all the 'independents' and people who can see beyond rooting for their team vote based on their ideals rather than who can actually get elected or the lesser of two evils, collectively that will be a big percentage. I honestly don't care if you vote liberatarian, green, communist or write in Fred friggin Flintstone. The powers be may still keep power, selling us all out and wiping their asses with the Bill of Rights but I'll be damned if I allow my vote to let them keep doing it in my name.

[dissident]

I will say one Obama thing.. if I'm a Ralph Nader type, then what third party can I vote for? I don't like this ^^, when Obama out-Bush's George Bush. Obama is too Republican for me, he would have been too Republican for Reagan or Gerald Ford for that matter.

Voting for a third party is generally considered 'wasting your vote'. I maintain the opposite - its the only way to make it count. The two party system makes it easy for any large, well funded organization to hedge their bet by contributing to both candidates. I doubt any one third party will be able to pull off a majority in the upcoming election but that isn't the point. The message that needs to be sent is that you, existing power structure are no longer wanted. If all the 'independents' and people who can see beyond rooting for their team vote based on their ideals rather than who can actually get elected or the lesser of two evils, collectively that will be a big percentage. I honestly don't care if you vote liberatarian, green, communist or write in Fred friggin Flintstone. The powers be may still keep power, selling us all out and wiping their asses with the Bill of Rights but I'll be damned if I allow my vote to let them keep doing it in my name.

Ross Perot nearly succeeded in creating a large third party in the US. But he was cut down by the media (he withdrew at one stage because of threats to his family and then he was called a "loser"). The American people will have to let go of that corporate media teat if they want to control their destiny. Giving the media the benefit of the doubt is a not working. Also, something has to be done about a system that allows local electoral committees composed of Republicans and Democrats to select who makes it on the ballot. This is what happened to Nader in 2008 and this is not democratic from any perspective.