[Loki]

There seems to have been a palpable erosion in the rule of law in the United States in recent years. In my rural part of the county this erosion is represented most notably by declining sheriff and state police patrols. Earlier this week a friend of mine called 911 about a loud, possibly violent domestic dispute in the middle of the night at a known meth house next door. Nobody came.

He called the sheriff's department the next day and was told they sometimes only have 2 or 3 deputies on patrol in my county, which is more than 4,700 square miles. The county just released almost 100 people from jail, including some violent criminals. All due to a serious county budget crisis. It's been in the news quite a bit the last year or so, the sheriff publicly threatening to cut deputy patrols even further if something isn't done. One recent news story says "There are now 6-8 hours every day when citizens may call for help from a deputy, but there won’t be anyone on duty to respond."

This is not the first time my friend has seen inaction by the sheriff's department about the meth house next door. He called 911 when he overheard a loud argument and threats of breaking out a gun; nobody came then, either. He was told then that the only thing he could do was vote for a tax increase to fund the department, which he said he'd gladly do. Pretty sure it's not on the fall ballot, though.

After all of this he decided to buy his first gun a couple days ago, a .40 cal Glock (fine choice). I showed him how to safely handle, shoot, and field strip it. He has no interest in guns, didn't really want to buy it but felt he had to. He has a wife and toddler and doesn't trust the sheriff's department to protect his family or his property; even his liberal wife suggested that it might be time to get a gun. He came to me because he knew I was a gun nut

This is just one example in a rather marginal county in a rather marginal state. But the rot seems to be coming from the top as well. I just finished Kunstler's “Too Much Magic” (an excellent read). His description of the financial meltdown in 2008 as a fundamental breakdown in the rule of law stuck in my mind:

The 2008 crisis emanated from the biggest systematic control fraud in world history. Networks of people in privileged positions violated the trust vested in their authority and subverted legitimate enterprise, clouding the boundary between business and crime, right and wrong. They have been covering it up in plain sight since, both in banking and in government....The extended crisis has shredded confidence in authority in general and faith that we are capable of governing the most critical of our collective responsibilities: running complex systems that actually work.” (p.145)

.

Am I imagining things or is the United States in the process of turning into a Third World country?

[Pops]

Violent crime has been declining for decades yet prisons are busting at the seams and busting budgets because the guard union has been pretty successful in convincing the gullible that everyone who smokes a joint should go to jail.

I'm not really sure who the law and order people think should be excluded, to listen to them you'd think there is an Al Capone on every corner, surprisingly they are approximately the same people who consistently vote against tax increases... and against "regulations" for the people who are doing the actual heist, I'd guess the biggest in history, that's those with the white collars.

But I really don't hold out much hope for a change of heart from the law & order / "Free Market" contingent. Charles Hughes Smith has a good article where the author points out that Madoff went to jail PDQ - why him and not the Ponzi Schemers behind the Great Mortgage Ripoff of the Oughties?

Simple, his victims were owners not proles.

I think the Proles are completely contained, pacified by their iPads and 64oz Big Gulps, no longer in good enough shape to prey on each other and too deluded by the smoke to know they are victims from those above them and not those below, a pretty good ploy I gotta admit.

[dinopello]

I think the Proles are completely contained, pacified by their iPads and 64oz Big Gulps, no longer in good enough shape to prey on each other and too deluded by the smoke to know they are victims from those above them and not those below, a pretty good ploy I gotta admit.

64 oz ? Dude, you've been getting ripped off...


The proles love a good vigilante story though. These local examples all happened recently (the comments are interesting for peoples attitude): Metro riders take down cell phone thief

Sometimes you get a reward: Police reward crime foiling samaritans with pizza

and sometimes you get arrested... Police arrest man who stopped drunk vandals

Depends on your technique I guess.

[Ferretlover]

Am I imagining things or is the United States in the process of turning into a Third World country?

IMHO, a great deal of the US is now in the process of completing the changeover into a third world country.
Yes, there are still areas where nothing has (yet) changed, the rich get richer, etc.
But, pay close attention to what actually gets through the 'real news' filters these days, If it can be pushed that just one, maybe two, people were the source of some horror, they will be prosecuted.
When it is a whole group of people, ie: bankers, lawyers, republiccans, democrats, oil companies, etc--is they break the law, just who is going to punish them?
NO-ONE. They can now get away with most anything, and this has been going on for years (ie: Donald Trump), but, now more people are catching on and wanting to get their "share" of the loot.
Laws are no longer made to protect the many from the few. They are made to make the many produce just for the few.
Our children and grandchildren are in soooooooo much trouble!!

[Tanada]

Am I imagining things or is the United States in the process of turning into a Third World country?

IMHO, a great deal of the US is now in the process of completing the changeover into a third world country.
Yes, there are still areas where nothing has (yet) changed, the rich get richer, etc.
But, pay close attention to what actually gets through the 'real news' filters these days, If it can be pushed that just one, maybe two, people were the source of some horror, they will be prosecuted.
When it is a whole group of people, ie: bankers, lawyers, republiccans, democrats, oil companies, etc--is they break the law, just who is going to punish them?
NO-ONE. They can now get away with most anything, and this has been going on for years (ie: Donald Trump), but, now more people are catching on and wanting to get their "share" of the loot.
Laws are no longer made to protect the many from the few. They are made to make the many produce just for the few.
Our children and grandchildren are in soooooooo much trouble!!

More than those semi formal organized groups you named FL are the increasing number of 'flash mob' robberies by groups coordinating their actions via cell phones. When 50 or 100 people in a department store all grab a high price item and bolt for the door at the same time the vast majority will get away with it, frequently all of them get away. Commerce will cease except over the internet if that takes place too often. This makes us more dependent on technology and less attached to our community as a whole, neither of which is a good thing.

[vision-master]

What about ppl without access to technology?

[Ferretlover]

Well, VM, there are, most likely, some who can get ahead--they have "street smarts." Everybody doesn't need to have a cell phone-it only takes one. There's always someone who will find a way to put an effective communications system in place, even if it is only word of mouth, sign language or an "X" of tape on a certain window.
The rest will learn to do as they are told if they don't want to suffer in some way, ie: lack of something essential, the four essentials being air, water, food and shelter.
I think it is a scary statement when you consider how few at the top of the food chain have managed to put not-too-obvious controls over the rest of the food chain.

[Outcast_Searcher]

... the increasing number of 'flash mob' robberies by groups coordinating their actions via cell phones. When 50 or 100 people in a department store all grab a high price item and bolt for the door at the same time the vast majority will get away with it, frequently all of them get away. Commerce will cease except over the internet if that takes place too often.

Tanada, I hear you, but I don't understand why "internet only" can or should be the only solution.

1). In tough areas I've been in as a tourist, like downtown Philly, the shopkeepers (presumably due to all the crime, organized and less so) had a simple and effective process:

a). They keep the door to the store LOCKED. (The doors looked quite thick, durable, and metal, BTW, so kicking the door in did NOT look like a solution).
b). Whether you want to enter or leave, someone behind a counter eyeballs you and makes a decision.
c). Thus no easy shoplifting, "flash" or otherwise, and local commerce proceeded pretty much as normal.

....

Upsides. No disruption of "normal" shopping for things I want to handle personally like fresh food (to inspect), shoes (to inspect and try on), etc.

Downsides. Clearly there is a cost to this. First of all, someone needs to keep an eye on the door ALL THE TIME, or the shop couldn't run. Good for employment, bad for competitive prices for small shops. Real customers don't want to be kept in or out for any length of time. Also, one wonders how many shopkeepers need backup (a gun or three behind the counter? A security goon behind a wall?) if the folks that they are worried about presumably grabbing stuff and running, and perhaps getting violent if stopped -- get nasty.

It seems a shame if the world needs to move to this kind of brute force method of conducting trade just as the world is supposedly largely "freed" by the magic of the internet and likes of the I-phone, etc, but that would be an option to "internet only".

...

Of course, if we legalized pot (to free resources to fight crime with actual victims) and made community service and/or stern labor programs part of the common sentencing landscape -- perhaps shoplifting isn't worth it if a week or more of breaking rocks in the sun or the cold/rain is the cost for the first offense (and rises rapidly from there).

[Loki]

Pops, my concern isn't with crime rates, per se. I know the violent crime rate has been declining, and I'm skeptical of claims that depressions = higher crime rates. The historical data doesn't support this contention.

My concern is the decline in basic, on-the-ground law enforcement in the rural part of my county. Crime rates may be going down, but there is still plenty of crime to go around. There is literally no law enforcement in my part of the county for significant chunks of the day---call 911 and you might have to wait for the next shift to come on duty. Much of Oregon is in the same boat, and I suspect many other localities around the country are as well. Rural areas seem to be hit harder than urban areas.

Although much of the rot is at the top, I see the symptoms of “collapse” first becoming apparent at the bottom, counties and cities going bankrupt and subsequent loss of basic public services in one locality after another. To me this rather worrying decline in basic law enforcement---and many other county services---in my neck of the woods is a symptom of the Long Emergency.

The only solution being floated is to increase the cut on public timberlands. Not sure who they plan on selling all this wood to. I live near two large mills, word is their wood is currently being sold to Asia, thanks in large part to a recently reopened (and heavily subsidized) rail line through the Coast Range. I'm not thrilled with the notion of becoming a resource colony for China, and I'm skeptical that they have the capacity to absorb all the wood they want to cut. I'm assuming local officials are assuming there will be a rebound in the domestic housing market, as well, which strikes me as a bad bet. No doubt this misguided effort will require loads of public subsidies to be “profitable.”

[Pops]

You're right. Property tax is what pays for local government and it's obviously been hit hard. The big problem with rural counties is we don't have much fat to trim, so cutbacks are in essential services.

At least out here the run up wasn't as large so the fall hasn't been as bad as I imagine it was there.

[TommyJefferson]

Much of Oregon is in the same boat

The State of Oregon has about ten Billion dollars sitting around unused. see: http://cafrman.com/Articles/Art-OR-S1.htm
If you really want even more armed thugs driving around your neighborhood collecting money to send up to the bankers, those surplus funds could pay for them to do so.

[Loki]

The State of Oregon has about ten Billion dollars sitting around unused. see: http://cafrman.com/Articles/Art-OR-S1.htm
If you really want even more armed thugs driving around your neighborhood collecting money to send up to the bankers, those surplus funds could pay for them to do so.

Uh, that's dated 2003. Don't know if you've noticed, but there's been a bit of an economic crisis since then. That link also conveniently ignores the "kicker," a law here in Oregon which sends "surplus" taxes back to the taxpayers.

And yeah, I'd like at least one "armed thug" patrolling at any given moment in my county, which is larger than some eastern states. Unlike the libertarian lunatic fringe, I'll take the rule of law over anarchy any day of the week.

ETA: nothing personal Tommy, even if you are part of the "libertarian lunatic fringe," I always enjoyed your posts. Haven't seen you around lately.

[ohanian]

Why read Science Fiction when you can live science fiction

The Space Merchant - by Frederik Pohl and Cyril M. Kornbluth in 1952.

In a vastly overpopulated world, businesses have taken the place of governments and now hold all political power. States exist merely to ensure the survival of huge trans-national corporations. Advertising has become hugely aggressive and by far the best-paid profession. Through advertising, the public is constantly deluded into thinking that the quality of life is improved by all the products placed on the market.

The rule of law is very strong in the future with all the strength held by lawyers. The the very law itself favours those who can pay the politicians to write it.