[IanC]

I've been stunned by the scenes of panic and desperation by this relatively short and even predictable disruption in gasoline supply due to Superstorm Sandy. Stepping outside of the PO community bubble, inside of which we are all able to fit such events into our worldview of depletion,etc, the public at large are coming face-to-face with how tenuous our connection to modern society can be.

Are people going to learn from this? (probably not)

Will they put blame where blame is due? (surely not - we can only blame ourselves for overconsumption and lack of foresight)

Will our leaders learn from this and make changes while awareness is still high? (we'll see)

What lessons are you learning from watching the scenes of fuel shortages back East?

-IanC

[Pops]

Thanks Ian, I was thinking about this too.

The big deal to me is two fold, first it puts the lie to the idea that oil expenditure is only a small fraction of GDP so an increase in oil's price or availability is likewise small. Obviously not much happens without the fuel to power it.

But the bigger lesson is the often quoted notion that it isn't the big problems that are the limiters (gas is sitting in underground tanks everywhere) it's the little problems - in this case gas stations have no way to pump gas because the power is out and they have no backup power.

If there is a strategic resource in an emergency it is fuel but heaven forbid that a gas station be required to spend a few bucks on a backup system - even if it we're a few hand pumps.


But this is no surprise, attempts this year to pass regulations for improved cyber security for critical infrastructure were met be the same old stonewall of profit takers crying about their money. Short term mentality.

[Plantagenet]

I've heard reports that some of the closed gas stations in the area hit by Sandy did have backup electrical generators to power them up when the grid goes down---but the big generators they use to power up a whole gas station run on diesel----and the urban gas stations didn't have much diesel and quickly ran out.

[IanC]

I read that Gov. Christie instituted 1970's style rationing. Is that still in effect? How has it worked-out?

This event is exposing how easy it is to completely disrupt society's normal functioning by turning off the power. Surely we can expect more of this in the future. I wonder if the Feds will consider guidelines for fuel rationing in the future.

Once that's done, it could to expand to become a framework to accommodate a more widespread Depletion Protocol. Again, though: who is first in line and who makes sure they get there?

-Ian

[Plantagenet]

I read that Gov. Christie instituted 1970's style rationing. Is that still in effect? How has it worked-out?

NPR reported this am that gas rationing has made the lines longer. When people realized they could only get gas on certain days, even more people are going to the gas stations on their eligible day, just to be sure they get topped off.

The lines are longer than ever.

[Beery1]

What lessons are you learning from watching the scenes of fuel shortages back East?

I'm just happy I use a bicycle for all my personal transport. Also, I never learned to drive, so never became dependent on a mode of transport that's on its way to modern society's scrap heap.

[vision-master]

I'll take my heated seats, sirius radio, cabin comfort any day over a bicycle?



A. You live close to work......

B. You have some kind of desk job with hot showers at work........

C. Your cheap. lsol

[Plantagenet]

Under socialism in the old USSR, when people saw a line at a store or a bakery, they immediately got in line because it meant the store had something to sell.

Something like that seems to be going on in NY/NJ----some of the lines at gas stations have grown to be over a mile in length, with 6 hour waits.

I don't think we've ever seen lines this bad for gas in the USA----not even back during the Arab oil boycott!


Gas line in Queens, NY

[vision-master]

No gas lines for me, I have enough on hand to make it here in 3 1/2 hrs. See ya suckers.....

[AgentR11]

I'll take my heated seats, sirius radio, cabin comfort any day over a bicycle?

Its too hot as it is, last thing I'd want to do is sit on a heated seat. Refrigerated seat might be kinda nifty though.

I honestly don't really like cars or driving cars to begin with, but (your cabin image reminded me) embedding a user/computer in one seems like a guaranteed path to rapid obsolescence.

>A. You live close to work......
>B. You have some kind of desk job with hot showers at work........
>C. Your cheap. lsol

I'm definitely all three, and especially cheap about spending money on things I don't like. Not sure I understand "hot shower" though; after biking I definitely do not want hot water touching my body. Nothing over 80F PLEASE.

Also, while I could do Sirius on my bike, I much prefer albums through Amazon/MP3. I like the whole artistic presentation that an album, in designed order, gives. Single's just don't do it for me.

ps: I like your little cabin, I would have it elevated down here though. Hefty concrete pier and beam.

Planet... we had lines like that briefly a few years ago after a hurricane; no one gave it much thought though. I enjoyed riding my bike around the town and observing the fun.

[SamInNebraska]

Are people going to learn from this? (probably not)

Have you? Have I? How many of us have cars, the driving of which is necessary for our jobs, and therefore income, and therefore everything else we need, or want, or desire? How many of us fly, take vacations, keep money in banks, and in general demand others do forth and rape and pillage the planet in our name?

Will they put blame where blame is due? (surely not - we can only blame ourselves for overconsumption and lack of foresight)

That's it.

Will our leaders learn from this and make changes while awareness is still high? (we'll see)

Our leaders were put there by us. Will THEY learn? Will WE? And what will they learn? Store hand pumps to get at the gasoline in tanks when the electricity goes out? Encourage people to move inland? I am not optimistic anyone will learn any more than we did the last time we had gasoline shortages in this country, on any large scale.

What lessons are you learning from watching the scenes of fuel shortages back East?
-IanC

My stored gasoline supply for commuting runs at about 3 weeks. Seems like enough.

[Oneaboveall]

I read that Gov. Christie instituted 1970's style rationing. Is that still in effect? How has it worked-out?

Yeah, it's the case of odd number/even number alternation.

For all the crap Newark gets from the rest of the state/country/world, things here have been relatively smooth. Mom managed to get gas on Friday and it took about two hours to get through the line. One of the good things about living here is that most of the family is around and we hekp each other out. It was my cousin who told Ma about the station two blocks away being open. The woman downstairs almost ran out of gas looking for fuel, but she managed to find a station that just opened thanks to her father-in-law. We had a birthday in Belleville on Saturday and, on the way there, saw a few of the long lines that have been shown all over the news. Other gas stations were closed due to running dry. I'm not sure how long this is going to last.

[IanC]

That picture of the huge lines posted by Plantagenet is the one that makes me weak in the knees. SO many people!

This whole incident has showed me 2 important things:

1. I am woefully unprepared for a disruption in fuel and electricity, even though I, too, bike, have candles, food, etc. The point is that Sandy has shown me how many unforeseen logistical problems can arise in a disaster, like not having the ability to pump gas out of full, otherwise functioning storage tanks.

2. Our supply lines are very fragile and it does not take long for people to go Ape Nutz and get really aggressive when they are hungry, cold, and panicking.

-Ian

[IanC]

Hang in there Oneaboveall. Looks like you and yours are taking care of each other - lesson #1 in my PO prep book.

-Ian

[Keith_McClary]

If there is a strategic resource in an emergency it is fuel but heaven forbid that a gas station be required to spend a few bucks on a backup system - even if it we're a few hand pumps.

Like this?

20 years ago I saw one of these still in use in a remote-ish place in BC, Canada. Antique car buffs would drive their Model-Ts thousands of miles to get a photo filling up there.

[SeaGypsy]

I'll take my heated seats, sirius radio, cabin comfort any day over a bicycle?



A. You live close to work......

B. You have some kind of desk job with hot showers at work........

C. Your cheap. lsol

You are a jerk, soon to be a dinosaur.

[vision-master]

Can't wait to install a CAI.........

Should be pushing close to 300 hp. Not bad for a mid-size sedan. lsol

6 speed auto, can ya dig it, + 30 mpg hiway....

Love the paddle shifting to get by the likes of SG.



Oh, I forgot, gotta get movie-in-motion hack so I can watch DVD's while driving.

[AgentR11]

Oh, I forgot, gotta get movie-in-motion hack so I can watch DVD's while driving.

Careful there, enjoying your toys and participating in display behavior is all fine, but when you end up dead-by-stupidity....

[AgentR11]

1. I am woefully unprepared for a disruption in fuel and electricity, even though I, too, bike, have candles, food, etc. The point is that Sandy has shown me how many unforeseen logistical problems can arise in a disaster, like not having the ability to pump gas out of full, otherwise functioning storage tanks.

You don't have to keep doing everything you normally do in a disrupted situation. Just go over your situation, and see what you'd need in order to not leave the house/property for a month. Water is the most annoying when you get down to it, the other factors are easier to manage, but even then a couple rain barrels will get the job done.

If you have that base to rely on, then if something does happen, you can use the bike to make things easier as opportunities present themselves.

2. Our supply lines are very fragile and it does not take long for people to go Ape Nutz and get really aggressive when they are hungry, cold, and panicking.

Honestly, that line seemed relatively peaceful and well behaved.

[vision-master]

Oh, I forgot, gotta get movie-in-motion hack so I can watch DVD's while driving.

Careful there, enjoying your toys and participating in display behavior is all fine, but when you end up dead-by-stupidity....

Tell taht 2 those Ipod drivers.....?