[Pops]

Archdruid did a story in a few installments...

(spoiler alert)

...that talked about a military confrontation with China that ends with the several states voting for the dissolution of the US (Part 1). I commented that I thought this wasn't likely because the divide has become more and more one of urban vs rural even in the most solidly red or blue states. JMG replied that his view is the regional divide is still greater.

I live in a county so red that there are no Democrats running is most local elections. Missouri is sorta purple only because of large urban populations in KC & St. Louis but down here in the Ozarks it's all red. For those of you who don't know, I'm about as left as you can go and still believe in private property and the only thing I fear more than conservatives yearning for a new feudalism and voting for a new plutacracy, is the American Evangelical Taliban party (AET=TEA) making my ponytail illegal. This is the land of Bushwhackers and Jayhawkers and during the war of Northern Aggression it mostly emptied out.

So given all that, the topic of discussion is:
If the US were to become dis-united would you emigrate from your "sector"? Where?

[Newfie]

I don't see much chance of the us breaking apart. Perhaps foolishly. I DO see Balkanization within the urban centers, localized civil conflict. Perhaps it could become regional if the gang ties between cities are strong enough. Then they might clash with some urban organizations.

But, to answer your question, where would we go?

Canada. Maritimes.

Canada may have its own issues with Quebec.

But I agree that the time to think about this is now, especially for the urbanite cliff dwellers.

[dbruning]

We'll trade you Quebec for Oregon, I have family there

[Don35]

Good topic Pops! Dmitri Orlov (sp?) thinks the US will split up as did the USSR. I don't know. I agree urban and rural areas are different. City folks live so tightly together I wonder if they need all that regulation to make them get along! Out here in the boonies I just want to left alone!

[AgentR11]

A break up of the US would be more than ample signal for me to leave my small town and head to the property in the sticks, but I'd not leave the zone. Born Texan, several generations and too much history.

[rockdoc123]

We'll trade you Quebec for Oregon, I have family there

Not a good deal....however if they agreed to throw in several flats of Full Sail Amber Ale and take Celine Dejon along with the rest of the province I am all for the trade!!

[seahorse3]

I thankful that everyone only has one life to give for their country, or portion that they claim, and can't respawn like on XBox.

[Timo]

Patagonia!

[Cloud9]

Balkanization is it possible? There are a lot levels to this question Pops. On the local level it has already happened in the sense that sequestered neighborhoods and gated communities exist all over the place. Ethnic cleansing has been going on for a century marked by the white flight to the suburbs. The nanny state has gone a long way in taking over the core responsibilities of the family and church. To some extent it has even supplanted the tribes. As long as the largess continues, balkanization is not really an issue. Multiculturalism adds spice to life much as it did in Lebanon before the troubles.

Multiculturalism tends to be a blessing in the times of plenty. It becomes a bane in times of privation. When there is not enough, social order breaks down; people tend to fall back onto the most basic social units. The nuclear family comes first, then the extended family and finally the tribe. Tribalism is quite simply barbaric. Those that are not of us are deemed to be threats to us.

The common culprits, asteroid impact, super volcano, EMP, solar flare or plague could bring down civilization and we would devolve back in to roving remnants governed by theocracies of some sort or the other. If the world comes unhinged, no doubt some will dream up gods that demand human sacrifice. It seems the more horrific the disaster, the more horrific the gods that must be appeased.

Economic collapse, food riots and even civil war will not necessarily cause a breakup of the country. We have been down that rout before. If Olduvai Theory holds, then we are going to see a slide back towards the 19th century. It seems logical to me that absent foreign invasion, we will fall back onto the political structures that were dominant in that century. Local problems will be dealt with by local government.

The United States may very well once again return to these United States. We are already seeing articles of nullification appear in state constitutions. Obama Care has spawned some of these articles. The NDAA has spawned others. While these tend to weaken federal power they don’t end it.

The imperial presidency may very well get itself impeached once again as happened with Andrew Johnson. Or, the emperor may be simply replaced by a lessor figure in the coming election.

Nuclear submarines will still ply the seas. Military innovation will continue. National defense will always be an issue. I suspect that much of day to day governance will be conducted on the county and city level and life will go on.

[Ibon]

I have already made my move

[Tanada]

In a sense the USA is already Balkanized when you consider the states which are Safely Blue, Safely Red or Squishy Purple. Even more so the Cities are nearly all deeply blue while the more rural an area is the more it shades through Purple and into Red. This is actually an old and well known effect the Hanseatic League was created so that the cities, which thought alike, need not pay attention to the rural neighborhood who they didn't understand too well.

[sparky]

.
I believe the U.S. is quite safe for the moment ,
Still , if one consider the far hypothetical future , what would a break up would look like

The standard theory is that Northern America would split in
-Northern plains , capital Chicago , include central Canada and the Northern middwest
-Southern plains , capital Atlanta , include the lower MiddWest
-the pacific seaboard , capital Seattle , include Alaska , Canada West of the Rockies
Oregon ,Washington and northern California
-Yankee homeland , North East coast down to the Carolinas

Florida is in a shifting zone and is being fought over occasionaly
Quebec is left to rot
deep troubles on the zone of contact with Mexico , southern California is a cesspit
the desert states of Nevada , Arizona and New Mexico saw some pretty horrific bouts of ethnic cleansing by everyone against everyone and are run by local big bosses

[Newfie]

I see you left out Maritime Canada. Good! Lets hope everyone forgets about it.

Too cold up there anyway, you wouldn't like it.

[PrestonSturges]

Most red states can't survive without massive cash infusions from the blue states.

[Cloud9]

Most blue states would starve without the red states.

[Cloud9]

Most blue states would starve without the red states.

[sparky]

.
Sorry Newfie , they are in the Northern Atlantic free zone ,
including Greenland ,Iceland , Scotland and Norway , mostly fishing , some cargo and a lot of rape and pillage

[ennui2]

Most blue states would starve without the red states.

I thought we're all gonna starve due to peak oil doom anyway. After all, the soil in the red states is dead without fertilizer. I guess we should enjoy the fracking while we can. (Been a while since I've heard any real malthusian thinking here.)

[Cloud9]

It is just a simple matter of looking at agricultural production and consumption. I am fairly sure that if you put a fence around New York and forced them to consume what they produced, it would get interesting in a very short time. Do that to Texas and they would probably suffer through it. Here in Florida, the counties just north of the great lake would be fine but the counties to the south and east and west of us would eat us alive. We all better hope the lights stay on.

[Newfie]

.
Sorry Newfie , they are in the Northern Atlantic free zone ,
including Greenland ,Iceland , Scotland and Norway , mostly fishing , some cargo and a lot of rape and pillage

Oh, OK. Well at least we get to have some fun.