[perderabo]

Has anyone else noticed the correlation between decreasing EROEI of all our main resources and exponentially mounting debt. It just seems to me that the arguments about unconventional oil and shale gas entirely miss the reality that the EROEI is declining across the board for all our main energy resources. Even if we can technically get the same liter amount from unconventional sources we are still being energy deprived. It is the difference between living on a pound of steak a day and converting that to try live on a pound of lettuce. The amount may still be the same but the energy we get from it is far far less. And any efficiency gains we make is more then cancelled out by increasing populations and economies that require ever more energy.

This seems to have been hidden from us by some very clever economic magic, but it is just smoke and mirrors as we are living on promises. Borrowing from the future to pay the bills today . As EROEI ever decreases our debt is compounded exponentially and looking at economies all over the world it seems they are about to break under this increasing load very soon.

[Tanada]

Instead of governments adopting a logical peak oil mitigation strategy 20 years ago and sticking too it we have had governments spend more and more fiat money each year in an attempt to keep BAU rolling along.

Sooner or later BAU can not go on, no matter how much money they choose to print trying. For the last four years we have been in a cycle of costs go up, print money to fill the gap, costs go up more, print more money. This path leads sooner or later to hyper inflation and collapse of the government. The only solution is austerity and that has been made out to be needlessly cruel by both commercial and social networking media. Nobody want to hear that their own lifestyle has to change so they demand the Government fix the problem. Government responds by more printing because they don't really understand what limits are, they think they can print enough to get a bigger slice of the pie for their people. The problem is all the fiat currencies are competing for the same resources so you get endless printing if you do this for more than a year or so. It has become a habit for the government to try and print our way out of trouble at this point.

[Vipp]

The point of fiat money, is that you create money now on the basis that the "value" that money represents, will be created later on, probably using that same money. That money is created in the form of debt and when the "value" for that money has been created and sold, the debt can be paid off.
It works very well in a growing economy.

The trouble is we can't grow anymore. And when financial experts keep telling the governments that this is a temporary slump, so just keep doing what you're doing, that debt can't be paid off and is going to pile up. The money is created, but it doesn't have any value.

By the way this is my first post here, so don't get mad if I get something wrong.

[perderabo]

The point of fiat money, is that you create money now on the basis that the "value" that money represents, will be created later on, probably using that same money. That money is created in the form of debt and when the "value" for that money has been created and sold, the debt can be paid off.
It works very well in a growing economy.

The trouble is we can't grow anymore. And when financial experts keep telling the governments that this is a temporary slump, so just keep doing what you're doing, that debt can't be paid off and is going to pile up. The money is created, but it doesn't have any value.

By the way this is my first post here, so don't get mad if I get something wrong.

You have got that right mate. We cant grow anymore as each time the economy recovers it raises oil consumption which pushes oils price up which makes it too expensive and causes a recession. The real problem here is debt is growing exponentially while economies keep hitting their head on the glass ceiling of high oil prices. And when that happens long enough the debt becomes meaningless debasing the value of fiat currency.

[Econ101]

The debt and energy are not interrelated variables. The debt is a spending problem brought on by years of irresponsible government spending. Energy is an asset. Their relationship is not cause and effect.

The government has been in debt since its inception, replacing oid with new. Lately that seems to be spiraling out of control resulting in a growing debt for each of us.

The question is has the debt gotten to the level that is equal to or greater than the market value of the known recoverable energy reserves? I dont think so. There are at least 1 trillion barrels of recoverable reserves in the USA. That number will certainly grow. At $80 a barrel thats $80 for each $1 in annual deficit spending going forward. The known oil, if nothing changes, will handle the debt for at least 50 - 100 yrs, Even longer if we return to responsible fiscal policy.

[ralfy]

Also, much of it involves "irresponsible spending," not just "irresponsible government spending." Hence,

the-myth-of-the-money-multiplier-t67257.html