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Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

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Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 11:56:13

Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

The price index of 33 important commodities declined by 70% over the 100 years up to 2002 — an enormous help to industrialized countries in getting rich. Only one commodity, oil, had been flat until 1972 and then, with the advent of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, it began to rise. But since 2002, prices of almost all the other commodities, plus oil, tripled in six years; all without a world war and without much comment. Even if prices fell tomorrow by 20% they would still on average have doubled in 10 years, the equivalent of a 7% annual rise.

This price surge is a response to global population growth and the explosion of capital spending in China. Especially dangerous to social stability and human well-being are food prices and food costs. Growth in the productivity of grains has fallen to 1.2% a year, which is exactly equal to the global population growth rate. There is now no safety margin.

Then there is the impending shortage of two fertilizers: phosphorus (phosphate) and potassium (potash). These two elements cannot be made, cannot be substituted, are necessary to grow all life forms, and are mined and depleted. It’s a scary set of statements. Former Soviet states and Canada have more than 70% of the potash. Morocco has 85% of all high-grade phosphates. It is the most important quasi-monopoly in economic history.


The damaging effects of climate change are accelerating. James Hansen of NASA has screamed warnings for 30 years. Although at first he was dismissed as a madman, almost all his early predictions, disturbingly, have proved conservative in relation to what has actually happened. In 2011, Hansen was arrested in Washington DC, alongside Gus Speth, the retired dean of Yale University’s environmental school; Bill McKibben, one of the earliest and most passionate environmentalists to warn about global warming; and my daughter-in-law, all for protesting over a pipeline planned to carry Canadian bitumen to refineries in the United States, bitumen so thick it needs masses of water even to move it. From his seat in jail, Speth said that he had held some important positions in Washington, but none more important than this one.


It is crucial that scientists take more career risks and sound a more realistic, more desperate, note on the global-warming problem. Younger scientists are obsessed by thoughts of tenure, so it is probably up to older, senior and retired scientists to do the heavy lifting. Be arrested if necessary. This is not only the crisis of your lives — it is also the crisis of our species’ existence. I implore you to be brave.


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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 12:57:01

Pstarr, Your efforts re-forests must be regarded as commendable. How many were in your group? Was it a solo effort? Perhaps greater numbers are required like this one recently in Washington:

Thousands Protest Keystone XL Oil Pipeline Outside White House

Thousands of people rallied outside the White House on Sunday calling on President Obama to reject the Keystone XL tar sands oil pipeline. The Keystone XL would carry crude oil from Alberta’s tar sands to the Gulf Coast, a project opponents say would produce lethal levels of carbon emissions while endangering communities along its path. Obama now faces a decision on the pipeline’s approval after delaying it until after the 2012 election. The group 350.org, as well as other environmental organizations, say the rally marked the first in a series of actions that will culminate in another major protest against the Keystone XL on President’s Day, February 18, 2013.


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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Pops » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 13:02:13

Off Topic aside...

I'm reading Brave New World in which crematoria smokestack scrubbers reclaim Phosphorus - "a kilo and a half per corpse"
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby AgentR11 » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 14:16:09

financier Jeremy Grantham.... Hmm.. Somehow I doubt if JG is arrested in some protest, that he'll miss the mortgage and/or utility payments on his home. I doubt his children (if he has some) would be robbed of a debt free college education. I doubt his wife will have to go to work (if she's not currently employed) at McDonalds in order to avoid starvation, if he's arrested.

Yall want to get arrested, and be ineffectual, forgotten martyrs? Go ahead. But to listen to some guy so insulated from the consequences of such an act, is just foolishness. Yeou arrests will not stop anything that honestly matters. You will not be closing more coal plants than are opened. You will not be halting the burning of the tar sands. You will not be preventing the selling and use of personal automobiles or airplanes for recreational travel. You will not be turning off the millions upon millions of brand new air conditioners in India and China.

I'm sure those like Jeremy Grantham though would sure love to pay 10 cents on a dollar for the property that you will lose to foreclosure and tax auctions....

Anyone with personal obligations to another has no business playing the civil disobedience act today. The stakes are now much too high.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Narz » Tue 20 Nov 2012, 17:09:31

Hi Graeme, if you keep us abreast of environmental protests/activism in large cities I may attend one in Philadelphia or NYC.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 00:12:15

There are dates and cities on this website: http://math.350.org/

Looks like you missed out. How about other cities?
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 03:16:13

Graeme wrote:Thousands Protest Keystone XL Oil Pipeline Outside White House

Thousands of people rallied outside the White House on Sunday calling on President Obama to reject the Keystone XL tar sands oil pipeline. The Keystone XL would carry crude oil from Alberta’s tar sands to the Gulf Coast, a project opponents say would produce lethal levels of carbon emissions while endangering communities along its path. Obama now faces a decision on the pipeline’s approval after delaying it until after the 2012 election. The group 350.org, as well as other environmental organizations, say the rally marked the first in a series of actions that will culminate in another major protest against the Keystone XL on President’s Day, February 18, 2013.


So am I to assume that all of these thousands of protesters didn't consume any fossil fuels going to and from the rally? That they don't in their ongoing lives?

Where do they think the energy they use comes from? Unicorns?

I'm all for speaking out in favor of a better way of doing things. But if one's protests are mainly about proclaiming there will be more protests, instead of offering viable alternatives, what is the point?

I live a relatively "low consumption impact" lifestyle and decided to have no kids in an overpopulated world. Maybe it's a Zen thing, but I think trying to minimize one's impact makes more sense than marching and carrying signs to garner some sort of attention.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Narz » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 04:02:32

Graeme wrote:There are dates and cities on this website: http://math.350.org/

Looks like you missed out. How about other cities?

Maybe next year. It's not really practical for me to travel right now.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 13:45:13

I don't agree that this type of activism has no merit. Politicians do react to an agitated electorate, especially if enough take to the street. We can surely expect times up ahead where civil disobedience once again becomes an effective means of effecting public policy.

Where I am more sanguine however is getting the masses out on the streets to protest over policy changes that are diffuse and actually target every body. This is a difficult challenge compared to environmental activism 40 years ago that would target a manufacturer of DDT or specific industries related to specific environmental distresses.

The environmental distress today is the sheer gravity of 7 billion consuming and getting by eating and defecating and trying to struggle for a better life.

It is kind of like getting folks out on the street to protest against pathologists who haven't yet released a more virule predator germ to help increase the die off of our species?

How do you do that?
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby AgentR11 » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 13:51:39

Graeme wrote:There are dates and cities on this website: http://math.350.org/
Looks like you missed out. How about other cities?


G, just looked at that map of the cities. I think that is called "preaching to the choir."
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby americandream » Wed 21 Nov 2012, 22:22:27

Graeme wrote:Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

The price index of 33 important commodities declined by 70% over the 100 years up to 2002 — an enormous help to industrialized countries in getting rich. Only one commodity, oil, had been flat until 1972 and then, with the advent of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, it began to rise. But since 2002, prices of almost all the other commodities, plus oil, tripled in six years; all without a world war and without much comment. Even if prices fell tomorrow by 20% they would still on average have doubled in 10 years, the equivalent of a 7% annual rise.

This price surge is a response to global population growth and the explosion of capital spending in China. Especially dangerous to social stability and human well-being are food prices and food costs. Growth in the productivity of grains has fallen to 1.2% a year, which is exactly equal to the global population growth rate. There is now no safety margin.

Then there is the impending shortage of two fertilizers: phosphorus (phosphate) and potassium (potash). These two elements cannot be made, cannot be substituted, are necessary to grow all life forms, and are mined and depleted. It’s a scary set of statements. Former Soviet states and Canada have more than 70% of the potash. Morocco has 85% of all high-grade phosphates. It is the most important quasi-monopoly in economic history.


The damaging effects of climate change are accelerating. James Hansen of NASA has screamed warnings for 30 years. Although at first he was dismissed as a madman, almost all his early predictions, disturbingly, have proved conservative in relation to what has actually happened. In 2011, Hansen was arrested in Washington DC, alongside Gus Speth, the retired dean of Yale University’s environmental school; Bill McKibben, one of the earliest and most passionate environmentalists to warn about global warming; and my daughter-in-law, all for protesting over a pipeline planned to carry Canadian bitumen to refineries in the United States, bitumen so thick it needs masses of water even to move it. From his seat in jail, Speth said that he had held some important positions in Washington, but none more important than this one.


It is crucial that scientists take more career risks and sound a more realistic, more desperate, note on the global-warming problem. Younger scientists are obsessed by thoughts of tenure, so it is probably up to older, senior and retired scientists to do the heavy lifting. Be arrested if necessary. This is not only the crisis of your lives — it is also the crisis of our species’ existence. I implore you to be brave.


nature


Not a hope in hell. Emotion wont solve these issues, understanding why our system drives us to act in the short term will. But then, who is going to get the nod to spread this level of understanding?
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Loki » Fri 23 Nov 2012, 18:02:09

AgentR11 wrote:financier Jeremy Grantham.... Hmm.. Somehow I doubt if JG is arrested in some protest, that he'll miss the mortgage and/or utility payments on his home. I doubt his children (if he has some) would be robbed of a debt free college education. I doubt his wife will have to go to work (if she's not currently employed) at McDonalds in order to avoid starvation, if he's arrested.

Uh, getting arrested at a protest does not equal spending the rest of your life in prison. Some perspective please? :roll:

I was arrested at a protest way back in the 1990s. Spent a couple hours in jail and had to pay a fine ($75 or thereabouts). Hardly the end of my world as I knew it.

As for the efficacy of protests and civil disobedience, results can vary obviously, but there are PLENTY of examples in US history where protesting and CD led to positive change. Ever heard of the Civil Rights Movement? No? Google it and learn.

You may think all action is useless, we should just stay ensconced in our middle-class suburban bubble with our heads down and our mouths shut because the future is written in stone and there is nothing whatsoever we can do to change it. Not everyone agrees with this rather pathetic mindset, thankfully.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 23 Nov 2012, 22:17:02

Loki wrote:As for the efficacy of protests and civil disobedience, results can vary obviously, but there are PLENTY of examples in US history where protesting and CD led to positive change. Ever heard of the Civil Rights Movement? No? Google it and learn.


You're having a lot of faith that the future handling of active dissidents will resemble past handling.
I think that is rapidly becoming untrue.

If its worth the risk to you, then go forth, but go forth knowing what you may be compromising.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 24 Nov 2012, 03:38:14

Loki wrote:
AgentR11 wrote:As for the efficacy of protests and civil disobedience, results can vary obviously, but there are PLENTY of examples in US history where protesting and CD led to positive change. Ever heard of the Civil Rights Movement? No? Google it and learn.

No doubt, there are issues where CD is necessary, and can be effective.

Comparing many, many demonstrations of people of multiple ethnicities banding together to protest discrimination based on race or creed is VERY different than some group banding together (and consuming oil to do it) to protest the specific placement of ONE oil pipeline, when there is a gigantic complex network of pipelines across the planet -- and will continue to be regardless of the fate of this one pipeline.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 05 Jan 2013, 18:52:28

Climate change won't wait

Societal change usually happens slowly, even once it's clear there's a problem. That's because, in a country as big as the United States, public opinion moves in leisurely currents. Change often requires going up against powerful, established interests, and it can take decades for those currents to erode the foundations of our special-interest fortresses. Think civil rights, gay marriage, equal rights for women.


With climate change, however, there simply isn't time to waste. It's not a fight, like gay marriage, between conflicting groups with conflicting opinions. It's a fight between human beings and physics. And physics is entirely uninterested in human timetables. Physics couldn't care less if precipitous action raises gas prices or damages the coal industry in swing states. It couldn't care less whether putting a price on carbon slowed the pace of development in China or made agribusiness less profitable.


Those of us in the growing grass-roots climate movement are moving as fast and hard as we know how (though not, I fear, as fast as physics demands). Thousands of us will descend on Washington on Presidents Day weekend [16-17th February] for the largest environmental demonstration in years. And young people from 190 nations will gather in Istanbul, Turkey, in June in an effort to shame the United Nations into action.

We also need you. Maybe if we move fast enough, even this all-too-patient president will get caught up in the draft. But we're not waiting for him. We can't.


latimes

Bill McKibben is a professor at Middlebury College and founder of the global climate campaign 350.org. A longer version of this piece appears at tomdispatch.com.

Global Heating Revisited

We have zero years to solve our addiction to hydrocarbon energy.

How many times have we heard: We have a decade, or we have three years, or we until 2020? In the 1980s, ecologists used to say, “We have to solve this by 2000”, which is now a decade behind us. We don’t have 10 years or 3 years, or any years. We are already far behind any sort of timeline that might have kept Earth’s temperature from rising +2°C from the pre-industrial era. We are now gambling our progeny’s future with runaway heating that could ravage human agriculture, devastate the remaining forests, increase extinctions, and flood every coastal city on Earth.


A comprehensive study of future temperature increase, the MIT Integrated Global Systems Model (A.P. Sokolov, P.H. Stone, et. al., American Meteorological Society's Journal of Climate, 2009) doubled the earlier 2003 estimates.

The MIT group ran 400 variations of the model, changing certain input parameters, including variations in physical conditions, human activity, economic policy, and so forth. The projections indicate a median probability by 2100 of CO2 concentration reaching 550 ppm and a median probability of Earth heating by 5.2 degrees Celsius (°C), with a 90% probability range of 3.5 to 7.4 °C, compared to the 2003 estimates of 2.4°C.

The lower bound, or minimum projected heating, is now + 2.4°C by 2100, with a “very small probability” it will be this low, and only with drastic, immediate, global policy changes that reduce our reliance on oil and gas.


The ecology movement may have one last chance, but the stakes are now much higher, and our actions – to succeed – will have to be similarly more rigorous.


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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sat 05 Jan 2013, 20:30:20

Graeme wrote:Thousands of us will descend on Washington on Presidents Day weekend [16-17th February] for the largest environmental demonstration in years. And young people from 190 nations will gather in Istanbul, Turkey, in June in an effort to shame the United Nations into action.


1. How many will fly to DC to do this, knowing that no legislative action on the problem will occur.
2. How many will fly to Istanbul, knowing that the UN is powerless to do anything at all.

I don't write this to suggest they shouldn't go. But rather to illustrate that the entire fabric of our global, industrial civilization guarantees a continued expansion of the burning of fossil fuels. Were measures in place to take even the slightest edge off the acceleration of CO2 emissions, these assemblies of protestors would be absolutely impossible. But they can, and will fly there; emitting more CO2 into the atmosphere than your average resident of rural India or China will in their entire lives. These people that are truly honest in their opposition to increased emissions, will do exactly what they are protesting against, because there is no other possible means of expression.

And you think something that fundamental can be altered by a set of small scale protests in an era where astroturf'ers of any party can put a thousand people on scene anywhere, at a moment's notice?
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 05 Jan 2013, 21:31:49

My quick response is that these protests, if widely reported and publicized, will raise awareness of the problem.

I can only offer 2 "solutions" at short notice. If I think of others, I will add. Can you think of any?

The first is to contact your local and federal political representative either by email or letter. Keep sending until you get a response. For example, here is what the League of Women Voters did in Hawaii. They put an ad in the local paper.

Image

They also wrote a letter to President Obama. Grist didn't think this would work so they suggested that the LWV should have Redditing, Twittered, Snapchatted or Flickr’d him.

If you don't think that will work, make sure that your pension funds only include investments in renewable energy as this article suggests.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sat 05 Jan 2013, 21:57:06

Graeme wrote:My quick response is that these protests, if widely reported and publicized, will raise awareness of the problem.


I guess that's why we see these things differently. I think everyone is already aware. The variety of responses that people have are consistent with having knowledge of the situation.

Some may say they disagree of course... but I wouldn't put much stock in that. They know. They have chosen to do nothing because that is more comfortable for them.
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Re: Be persuasive. Be brave. Be arrested (if necessary)

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 05 Jan 2013, 22:07:22

OK. If you think everyone is aware, then change will come. Just watch.
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