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Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

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Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Fri 08 Feb 2013, 02:14:12

Has any one been following the case of Christopher Jordan Dorner out in California? If you haven't heard, he's a former Navy Sniper and LAPD vet who has declared war on the LAPD. So far he's killed three people, including a cop in an ambush. Here's a CNN article with more info: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/07/us/lapd-attacks/index.html

In this case, we have a dedicated, trained, individual who has done or caused the following:

    Monica Quan, 28, and Keith Lawrence, 27, are found shot to death in their car at an Irvine, Calif., parking structure. Quan, an assistant women's basketball coach at California State University, Fullerton, was the daughter of a former Los Angeles police captain who represented Dorner in disciplinary hearings that resulted in his dismissal.

    In the Riverside County community of Corona, Calif., two LAPD officers assigned to protect a person named in the manifesto chase a vehicle they believe is Dorner's. One officer is grazed in the forehead during a shootout, and the gunman flees. A short time later, a gunman believed to be Dorner ambushes two Riverside police officers who had stopped at a red light during a routine patrol. One officer is killed and the other critically injured.

    Naval Base Point Loma in San Diego is locked down after a Navy worker reports seeing someone who resembles Dorner. Two hours later, Navy officials say they don't believe Dorner was on base.

    LAPD officers guarding a manifesto target in the Los Angeles suburb of Torrance open fire on a truck they mistakenly believe to be Dorner's. Two women are wounded. A short time later, Torrance police are involved in a second shooting involving a different truck they also mistake for Dorner's. Nobody is hurt.
(Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/articl ... z2KHhZ8HPe)

It also appears that another mistaken identity shootout has led to one person being killed, but I can't seem to get it confirmed.

We have talked at-length on this board about how fragile this system is. One man is running around, people are worried, and the cops are shooting innocent people instead of protecting them. It is remarkable the "real-time" effect that one very dedicated man has had on "The System". I can't be the only one who's a little unnerved by this.

One last thing, Here's a manifest he wrote (ala the Unibomber): http://laist.com/2013/02/07/christopher ... _in_fu.php
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 08 Feb 2013, 22:36:45

The NYTimes reported today that there is a small cadre of blacks and liberals who actually support this nutjob, because they are sympathetic to his claims that he is only killing people because he is a victim of racism, and they agree with his political positions supporting Obama and other liberal causes as laid out in his on-line manifesto.
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby noobtube » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 11:40:34

Plantagenet wrote:The NYTimes reported today that there is a small cadre of blacks and liberals who actually support this nutjob, because they are sympathetic to his claims that he is only killing people because he is a victim of racism, and they agree with his political positions supporting Obama and other liberal causes as laid out in his on-line manifesto.


It seems you have a problem with blacks and liberals.

Yet another racist who thinks he has the solutions to all the worlds problems, and that means black people are bad and whites are good.

But, isn't that the kind of thinking that got us in this mess?

Your type just never learns. You have to be right. You have to be superior. You just can't accept that maybe it is you who is the problem along with this race supremacist system that is destroying the planet.
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 14:09:33

noobtube wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:The NYTimes reported today ...


It seems you have a problem with blacks and liberals..


It seems you are very stupid.

Just because I commented on something bizarre printed in the NY Times does not mean I agree with it or endorse it---because I don't. If you think the NY Times is racist for reporting on the fact that some blacks and leftists SUPPORT Dorner, then direct your ire there. Don't be so stupid as to blame me for what the NY Times prints. :roll:

-------------

AND its not just the NY Times that is reporting on the support for Dorner among some people on the left----

Some on the left express SUPPORT for Dorner and his views
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 15:23:45

Dorner is a dead man walking. I have no sympathy for him. Having said that, I find this an interesting case study in systemic failure. He is a product of the system. Having received training in both the military and the LAPD, he is perfectly positioned to wreak havoc on the very same entity that trained him. One man cannot sustain an attack on law enforcement for more than a few hours without community support. Fatigue will get him. His demise is inevitable unless elements within the community rally behind him and give him support.

What is more interesting is that he has single handedly turned the LAPD upside down. They are afraid as evidenced by their shooting at shadows. In the broader scope of things, they have been shown to be vulnerable. Others are watching. The question before us is this an anomaly or is it the first outbreak of a growing contagion?
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 16:16:23

Cloud9 wrote:Dorner is a dead man walking. I have no sympathy for him. Having said that, I find this an interesting case study in systemic failure. He is a product of the system. Having received training in both the military and the LAPD, he is perfectly positioned to wreak havoc on the very same entity that trained him. One man cannot sustain an attack on law enforcement for more than a few hours without community support. Fatigue will get him. His demise is inevitable unless elements within the community rally behind him and give him support.

What is more interesting is that he has single handedly turned the LAPD upside down. They are afraid as evidenced by their shooting at shadows. In the broader scope of things, they have been shown to be vulnerable. Others are watching. The question before us is this an anomaly or is it the first outbreak of a growing contagion?

Thank you, Cloud9, for getting my point.

I love how the right is freaking out about the manifesto he wrote and how "hatred espoused by the left" has "driven" this guy into a rampage. It's amazing that they've quickly and completely forgotten how they've been driving people to violence against abortion doctors, federal buildings, Unitarian churches, the Tides Foundation, etc...
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 17:37:23

pstarr wrote:When I think of "Fragility of Complex Systems" I am more inclined to consider industrial ecology and entropic systems. You know; JIT production, cascading effects, unintended consequences. That sort of thing. How does a psycho-loonie with PTSD and cop-hatred fit the bill here?

It shows how one person has created a massive disruption in the system and how vulnerable it is.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 19:57:12

The LAPD is a major system in the overall command and control system. The fact that one man has gained their total attention means that he has disrupted the system. Should he be joined by others and more officers fall, a significant portion of the force may very well go on sick leave. Law enforcement is not accustomed to being hunted.
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 20:14:04

I wonder what repercussions would exist for an innocent person fired upon by police without warning, who fires back in self defense, and succeeds in killing the attacking officers.

This "new normal" we are living under is quite bizarre.

Two women who were shot by Los Angeles police in Torrance early Thursday during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer were delivering newspapers, sources said.
The women, shot in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue, were taken to area hospitals, Torrance police Lt. Devin Chase said. They were not identified. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back, according to Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated.

It was not immediately known what newspapers the women were delivering. After the shooting, the blue pickup was riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lay in the street alongside.

...



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

A mother and daughter who were mistakenly shot by Los Angeles police hunting for rampage suspect Christopher Dorner had no warning before bullets started whizzing through their newspaper-delivery truck, their lawyer said Friday.

"No command, no instruction, no warning. They just opened fire on them," said Glen Jonas, who is representing Emma Hernandez, 71, and Margie Carranza, 47, in possible legal action against the Los Angeles Police Department.

...


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/08/16900348-women-shot-during-lapd-ex-cop-manhunt-had-no-warning-lawyer-says?lite
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sat 09 Feb 2013, 21:26:00

I should note that I was wrong about the LAPD accidentally killing someone. I got that from a message board.

This "new normal" we are living under is quite bizarre.


I actually wanted to address that good point. I remember thinking that the early to mid-90s were scary with Desert Storm, The LA riots, Waco, Oklahoma, conspiracy theorists, militias, and the other things going on. This, however, is scary in a whole new way that Cloud9 summed up best two posts back. I don't remember Eric Robert Rudolph or Ted Kaczynski having this immediate effect of panicking those in authority.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 01:14:29

Plantagenet wrote:Just because I commented on something bizarre printed in the NY Times does not mean I agree with it or endorse it
You didn't comment on it, you just quoted or paraphrased it. Do you have any comment on it?
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 02:47:24

The idea of fragility in complexity can be seen in one FEASTA report:

http://fleeingvesuvius.org/2011/10/08/o ... d-economy/

Also,

http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/shield2.1.1.html
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby gollum » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 03:37:46

I think this episode is especially interesting from the view of many that fear the government will go door to door to confiscate firearms. In light of what just one trained man can do to gum up the system I'd say taking guns would be suicide for any government entity that tried such nonsense if even a small percentage of gun owners decide to activley resist.
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 12:20:42

It is an age old pattern, action is followed by reaction. The sympathy this guy is garnishing may lead to escalation. All that is needed for escalation to occur is for a few gangland wannabes to decide it is open season on the LAPD. Should that happen, this thing could really pop. When control freaks start to lose control, they immediately ratchet up to lock downs. In a lock down nothing moves.

Should it last a day or two, then it will be viewed as a minor inconvenience and quickly forgotten. Should it last longer than that, a new dynamic will emerge. After a few days, the population will find itself prisoner to the forces that were set up to serve and protect them. They will come to discover that their issues are relatively unimportant.

Domestic violence cases, trespasses and burglaries will not be responded to in any kind of timely manner. Soon it will become readily apparent that any security that is provided will be provided for the police and their families. More missteps will take place. More innocents will be killed or injured.

Over a protracted period of time, the LAPD will lose legitimacy in the eyes of the general public. At that point the statist’s argument that the LAPD should have a monopoly of force will lose credence within the general population.

What happened in New Orleans may play out in LA in that some police units could go rogue. Should that happen, others will simply walk off the job. In some areas gangs already have a monopoly of force. I suspect should things unwind, in other more upscale areas, some of our gun abolitionists may very well come to lament their lack of high capacity magazines.
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 15:42:24

As the peakoil.com resident expert on 'wacko' conspiracy theories, there is already a conspiracy theory about this rogue ex-police officer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKI0u0qV8Dg

(I personally think this is just one nutcase exacting revenge for his firing. As always with revenge, those who seek revenge dig two graves; one for their target and one for themselves)
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 16:39:49

Question: What's Wrong With America?

US society in a nutshell: Chris Dorner has been around for a week and has 222 million results on Google; the Federal Reserve has been around for one hundred years and has 187 million results.

---from ZeroHedge

Answer: America is now a celebrity culture and the MSM have made Dorner into a big celebrity. 8)
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Re: Christopher Dorner and the Fragility of Complex Systems

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 10 Feb 2013, 20:20:58

Early in the search there were two incidents in which Ca. Police accidentally shot up pickup trucks they mistakenly believed were Dorner's truck

police mistakenly fired on second pickup truck

The police first fired on a truck making a delivery, and then they rammed and fired on a Nissan Titan pickup truck they spotted on the streets, even though it was the wrong color, and the guy driving the truck looked nothing like Dorner.

Dorner's own Nissan Pickup truck was eventually found burning in the mountains north of LA
Last edited by Plantagenet on Sun 10 Feb 2013, 20:48:47, edited 1 time in total.
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