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Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Birol

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Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Birol

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 18 Feb 2013, 17:08:36

Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Birol Says

Oil prices are acting as a brake on the global economy, and harming Europe in particular, the International Energy Agency’s chief economist said at a conference in London today.

Europe will need to spend 500 billion euros ($668 billion) on oil imports this year, about 200 billion euros more than average levels, if oil prices remain near current levels, the IEA’s Fatih Birol, said in London at the start of International Petroleum Week.

“Prices are very high,” he said in a Bloomberg Television interview. The “current level of oil prices is a major impact on the global economy, but especially for Europe.”

Asked by reporters if IEA members are considering a release of emergency stockpiles, Birol said the agency doesn’t “discuss stocks just when prices are rising. We do it when there is a supply disruption.”


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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 18 Feb 2013, 17:30:21

Graeme wrote:Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Birol Says

“Prices are very high,” he said in a Bloomberg Television interview. The “current level of oil prices is a major impact on the global economy, but especially for Europe.”


Duh. Those economists sure are slow learners.

Maybe after a few more years of recession in the EU Birol will even figure out that the high taxes on oil in the EU make the price of gasoline much higher for consumers there then it would otherwise be. :lol:
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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby dissident » Mon 18 Feb 2013, 17:49:34

Reality is a threat to the EU economy.
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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 18 Feb 2013, 18:56:07

Reality is also a threat to most economists and every politician I have ever met or seen give a speech. The truth is you can not borrow your way into plentiful oil, and that is what our civilization is based upon. As more of the cheap supply dwindles the price will keep ratcheting upward, it has too to meet the demand with more expensive supply. We should see $500.00 bbl as still cheap because it is so useful to our civilization, but our entire system is set up for $35.00 bbl and we are having a horrible time adjusting to $115.00, let alone $500.00 bbl.
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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby John_A » Mon 18 Feb 2013, 19:41:56

Tanada wrote:.... but our entire system is set up for $35.00 bbl and we are having a horrible time adjusting to $115.00, let alone $500.00 bbl.


But....we are adjusting. And in that behavior change might just lie...salvation. Even Americans can learn, albeit not very quickly. But hit them hard enough in the pocketbook, and even Brittany Spears watching, basket weaving college degree earning, sue sue sue happy public school educated where is my plastic pumpkin big voice in the sky tells me what to do Americans can change.

Who would have thought it would have caught up with the car culture so quickly?

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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 19 Feb 2013, 11:38:20

http://ourfiniteworld.com/2012/10/25/an ... il-supply/

We seem to hear two versions of the story of limited oil supply:

1. The economists’ view, saying that the issue is a simple problem of supply and demand. Substitution, higher prices, demand destruction, greater efficiency, and increased production of oil at higher prices will save the day.

2. A version of Hubbert’s peak oil theory, saying that world oil production will rise and at some point reach a plateau and begin to decline, because of geological depletion. The common belief is that the rate of decline will be determined by geological considerations, and will roughly match the rate at which production increased.

In my view, neither of these views is correct. My view is a third view:

3. An adequate supply of cheap ($20 or $30 barrel) oil is no longer available, because most of the “easy to extract” oil is gone. The cost of extracting oil keeps rising, but the ability of oil-importing economies to pay for this oil does not. There are no good low-cost substitutes for oil, so substitution is very limited and will continue to be very limited. The big oil-importing economies are already finding themselves in poor financial condition, as higher oil prices lead to cutbacks in discretionary spending and layoffs in discretionary industries.


Much more to the excellent article at the link above, I urge everyone to read it and understand the points made in the quote above.
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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 19 Feb 2013, 21:02:30

I saw this IEA based article recently. What surprised me was how much the impact will supposedly be.

For the US with its car-centric economy and sprawl, definitely yes.

For Europe though, with already high gasoline taxes, and the resulting small cars, public transport infrastructure, etc. I would think not so much.

Given how poor IEA pricing forecasts seem to be on average over time -- I guess we'll see.

Big picture, I think it's 3rd world demand vs. rising first world efficiency, and the demand side certainly seems to have the strong grip on the rope.
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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby dolanbaker » Wed 20 Feb 2013, 03:54:18

Outcast_Searcher wrote:I saw this IEA based article recently. What surprised me was how much the impact will supposedly be.

For the US with its car-centric economy and sprawl, definitely yes.

For Europe though, with already high gasoline taxes, and the resulting small cars, public transport infrastructure, etc. I would think not so much.

Given how poor IEA pricing forecasts seem to be on average over time -- I guess we'll see.

Big picture, I think it's 3rd world demand vs. rising first world efficiency, and the demand side certainly seems to have the strong grip on the rope.


There are many parts of Europe that are nearly as car-centric as the US, Ireland being a classic example where about 25% of the population live in semi-rural areas (think suburbs built along existing roads) for many of these people the cost of fuel is having a major impact on their lives.
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Re: Oil Prices a Major Threat to Europe’s Economy, IEA’s Bir

Unread postby Econ101 » Sat 02 Mar 2013, 08:38:01

If they want expensive let them try electric cars for a while!
Tanada wrote:http://ourfiniteworld.com/2012/10/25/an-economic-theory-of-limited-oil-supply/


In my view, neither of these views is correct. My view is a third view:

3. An adequate supply of cheap ($20 or $30 barrel) oil is no longer available, because most of the “easy to extract” oil is gone. The cost of extracting oil keeps rising, but the ability of oil-importing economies to pay for this oil does not. There are no good low-cost substitutes for oil, so substitution is very limited and will continue to be very limited. The big oil-importing economies are already finding themselves in poor financial condition, as higher oil prices lead to cutbacks in discretionary spending and layoffs in discretionary industries.


Much more to the excellent article at the link above, I urge everyone to read it and understand the points made in the quote above.


I dont disagree entirely with his conclusion. The $30 dollar oil is gone like $1 milk. There is plenty of "easy to get oil". A lot of it is off limits, on federal lands, but a lot of it isnt. Federal policy has as much impact on supply and price of conventional energy as the markets, just as it does with every product priced in dollars.

High oil prices are not the cause of economic problems. You are better served trying to make the point high oil prices are the straw breaking a poorly managed economies back. Prices on all things are high, most at all time highs. I dont think absurd government spending policies that put an unlimited debt on all of us and devalue our currency is caused by high oil prices. I think its the other way around.

Energy prices are unnecessarily high. A change in political policies would change that. The only policy that makes sense is orderly development of known reserves of conventional energy. That source of energy wealth must be developed and distributed to society.

The authors early graph presentations trying to show that energy is the sole independent variable the rest of the economy depends on is a common mistake with just enough common sense and shards or truth to be accepted however faulty the logic.

There are a lot of inputs into the economy right now that are stressing the system, energy is only 1 of them. Energy, like other inputs, is dependent on other inter-related systems. It they are operating efficiently energy will be reasonably priced and abundant. A more direct cause to our problems, and the cause the author is trying to turn you away from, is political. Look at the underlying political forces that have pushed many of our jobs off shore. Look at the abuses in the banking industry casued by faulty government policies. Look at government overspending leading to our debt crisis. There are some major causes, unrelated to energy, at the heart of our economic problems.
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