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Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

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Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 20 Apr 2013, 20:50:27

Earth Day News: C.S Goldsmith Author of the Book "Uninhabitable a Case for Caution" Talks About the Atmospheres Levels of CO2 and the Negative Impact They Can Have

We may have less time than it takes to pay off a new car before we reach a tipping point beyond which an environmental domino effect could reinforce the warming trend in violent and unpredictable ways.

We are already at the half way point in the 100 month countdown to reaching a major milestone in Co2 emissions and we may only have 50 months left to do something about it that would keep the world’s average temperature from rising above 2 degrees Celsius or 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit, at 3.6 degrees, we lose the Amazon forest.

As one Climate scientist put it, if I were a doctor, I would say that the patient had a terminal illness and is expected to die of an extreme fever somewhere between 2038 and 2050 if left untreated.

That time frame is an estimate of greenhouse gasses passing the 450 parts per million thresholds from the World’s leading authority on Climate Change, The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change the (IPCC).

Incredibly, in spite of the huge stakes that dangerous climate change represents to all of us, most Politicians continued to shrink from the climate change dialogue and many politicians have simply turned their back on the science in spite of the increase of more violent storms like hurricane Katrina and Sandy, more severe snow storms than in over 100 years and the 11 of the hottest summers ever recorded, fueling decade long droughts.

Instead of being at the top of the political agenda, it has fallen to the very bottom. One of the greatest threats to human progress, the imminent threat of irreversible climate change is almost upon us and could start to adversely impact civilization by as early as 2016, a blink of the eye in geological terms.


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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 20 Apr 2013, 21:30:04

Graeme wrote: we may only have 50 months left to do something about it that would keep the world’s average temperature from rising above 2 degrees Celsius or 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit, at 3.6 degrees, we lose the Amazon forest....

That time frame is an estimate of greenhouse gasses passing the 450 parts per million thresholds from the World’s leading authority on Climate Change, The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change the (IPCC).

Incredibly, in spite of the huge stakes that dangerous climate change represents to all of us, most Politicians continued to shrink from the climate change dialogue ....Instead of being at the top of the political agenda, it has fallen to the very bottom.


The reason that politicans are no longer talking about climate change is that the UN climate treaty process is dead.

The treaty negotiations broke down in 2010 at the UN Copenhagen meeting when Obama, in his typically egotistical way, forced his way into a private meeting hosted by the China leader and tried to take it over to convince China and the other countries there to follow his lead---a farce that the Chinese leader took as an insult to China. The Chinese leader then responded by insulting Obama by only sending a very junior delegate when Obama sent a personal invitation for a meeting with the Chinese leader to try to patch things up. After that the two major powers couldn't even agree to meet and talk to each other. Obama's goofball attempt to take over China's meeting derailed all subsequent negotiations. As a result the last small steps needed to finalize the treaty at the Copenhagen conference didn't get done and the meeting ended in failure----the planned post-Kyoto treaty that was supposed to be signed there was delayed and has now been completely abandoned as a consequence of Obama's egotistical faux pas.

The UN climate change treaty process that broke down in 2010 shows absolutely no sign of coming back to life, and wIthout a UN treaty to require limits on global carbon emissions there is no hope of limiting global carbon emissions. 8)
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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 20 Apr 2013, 22:15:07

Changing our direction before we hit the climate change wall will be difficult at best. But with the best scientific minds and a combined effort by the President along with the Big Eight, perhaps we can still side step the worst consequences of cataclysmic climate change. We have very little time to make the right decisions that will dictate our future and the future of generations to come that are depending on us to make the right choices.


And see internationalclimatenegotiations thread.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 21 Apr 2013, 00:07:52

Graeme wrote:But with ... a combined effort by the President along with the Big Eight, perhaps we can still side step the worst consequences of cataclysmic climate change.


Sorry, but no.

You can't have meaningful carbon reduction without including China---China is now the largest CO2 emitter in the world and continues to increase its CO2 emissions rapidly. Al Gore made the huge mistake of leaving China out of the Kyoto Accords---getting them covered by some kind of treaty is of prime importance. But since Obama insulted China and triggered the collapse of the Treaty talks in Copenhagen in 2010 there has been no sign China has the slightest interest in any kind of climate treaty now.
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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 21 Apr 2013, 00:40:11

There were no insults - it's just a figment of your vivid imagination.

U.S. Pledges Climate Change Cooperation with China and Japan

China and the United States represent the two largest carbon emitting nations and analysts have said the agreement between the two nations could mark a significant move forward and put China and the US at the “center of serious clean energy work.”

“China and the United States represent the world’s two biggest economies, we represent the world’s two largest consumers of energy, and we represent the two largest emitters of global greenhouse gases,” said Kerry in a statement. “So if any two nations come to this table with an imperative for action, it is us.

What the United States and China decide to do with respect to this, whatever energy initiative we embrace together … the two largest economies in the world will send a signal to the world about how serious we are about this,” he said.


Alden Meyer, director of strategy and policy for the Union of Concerned Scientists, expressed cautious optimism over the weekend, saying the new agreement “raises expectations that both the United States and China will move forcefully to confront the threats of climate change,” adding that the “proof will be in the pudding” over what happens next.

The next step comes at a high-level meeting in July of the Strategic and Economic Dialog, where climate change will be high on the agenda. At the meeting US Special Envy for Climate Change Tod Stern will lead the climate change working group alongside his Chinese counterpart Xie Zhenhua, vice chairman of the National Development and Reform Commission. The two leaders are charged with “identifying new areas for concrete, cooperative action to foster green and low-carbon economic growth, including through the use of public-private partnerships, where appropriate.”

China and the US released a joint statement referring to the unique position of climate leadership held by the two nations:

“The United States of America and the People’s Republic of China recognise that the increasing dangers presented by climate change measured against the inadequacy of the global response requires a more focused and urgent initiative.”


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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby fiedag » Mon 22 Apr 2013, 00:21:55

Plantagenet wrote:The treaty negotiations broke down in 2010 at the UN Copenhagen meeting when Obama, in his typically egotistical way, forced his way into a private meeting hosted by the China leader and tried to take it over to convince China and the other countries there to follow his lead---a farce that the Chinese leader took as an insult to China. The Chinese leader then responded by insulting Obama by only sending a very junior delegate when Obama sent a personal invitation for a meeting with the Chinese leader to try to patch things up. After that the two major powers couldn't even agree to meet and talk to each other. Obama's goofball attempt to take over China's meeting derailed all subsequent negotiations. As a result the last small steps needed to finalize the treaty at the Copenhagen conference didn't get done and the meeting ended in failure----the planned post-Kyoto treaty that was supposed to be signed there was delayed and has now been completely abandoned as a consequence of Obama's egotistical faux pas.


Plantagenet, this is fascinating. What is your source for this - not that I find it implausible...
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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby fiedag » Mon 22 Apr 2013, 00:21:55

Plantagenet wrote:The treaty negotiations broke down in 2010 at the UN Copenhagen meeting when Obama, in his typically egotistical way, forced his way into a private meeting hosted by the China leader and tried to take it over to convince China and the other countries there to follow his lead---a farce that the Chinese leader took as an insult to China. The Chinese leader then responded by insulting Obama by only sending a very junior delegate when Obama sent a personal invitation for a meeting with the Chinese leader to try to patch things up. After that the two major powers couldn't even agree to meet and talk to each other. Obama's goofball attempt to take over China's meeting derailed all subsequent negotiations. As a result the last small steps needed to finalize the treaty at the Copenhagen conference didn't get done and the meeting ended in failure----the planned post-Kyoto treaty that was supposed to be signed there was delayed and has now been completely abandoned as a consequence of Obama's egotistical faux pas.


Plantagenet, this is fascinating. What is your source for this - not that I find it implausible...
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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 22 Apr 2013, 01:30:40

Try googling "the man who killed Copenhagen" for more info on how Obama killed the UN climate climate change treaty in Copenhagen in 2009. The mainstream media didn't cover it (of course) but some honest folks with the NGOs wrote about it at the time.

Here is one account of Obama forcing his way into the secret meeting at Copenhagen in 2009

..... a rather dramatic scene unfolded that surprised even several top leaders at the climate negotiations in Copenhagen. In a secret meeting between Chinese, Indian, and Brazilian heads of state, the door swung open revealing President Obama, who hadn’t been invited but had arrived to crash the meeting. Several diplomats protested the intrusion, but Obama simply informed them he wouldn’t accept them negotiating in secret. He sat down and started talking.
--The Daily Beast

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Obama---the man who killed Copenhagen
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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 22 Apr 2013, 02:00:59

No, that's not what happened. We've been over this before in the Doha thread so I'll repeat it here. Please read entire article for full story but here is excerpt:

How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room

Copenhagen was a disaster. That much is agreed. But the truth about what actually happened is in danger of being lost amid the spin and inevitable mutual recriminations. The truth is this: China wrecked the talks, intentionally humiliated Barack Obama, and insisted on an awful "deal" so western leaders would walk away carrying the blame. How do I know this? Because I was in the room and saw it happen.

China's strategy was simple: block the open negotiations for two weeks, and then ensure that the closed-door deal made it look as if the west had failed the world's poor once again. And sure enough, the aid agencies, civil society movements and environmental groups all took the bait. The failure was "the inevitable result of rich countries refusing adequately and fairly to shoulder their overwhelming responsibility", said Christian Aid. "Rich countries have bullied developing nations," fumed Friends of the Earth International.

All very predictable, but the complete opposite of the truth. Even George Monbiot, writing in yesterday's Guardian, made the mistake of singly blaming Obama. But I saw Obama fighting desperately to salvage a deal, and the Chinese delegate saying "no", over and over again. Monbiot even approvingly quoted the Sudanese delegate Lumumba Di-Aping, who denounced the Copenhagen accord as "a suicide pact, an incineration pact, in order to maintain the economic dominance of a few countries".

Sudan behaves at the talks as a puppet of China; one of a number of countries that relieves the Chinese delegation of having to fight its battles in open sessions. It was a perfect stitch-up. China gutted the deal behind the scenes, and then left its proxies to savage it in public.


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Re: Uninhabitable a Case for Caution

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 22 Apr 2013, 12:03:16

Graeme wrote:How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room


Actually thats completely untrue--- he wasn't in the room at all.

Obama's clash with China began when Obama tried to take over a closed meeting that China was hosting.

The facts are clear. China called a secret closed meeting. Obama got wind of it, forced his way in, and tried to take it over. China didn't like Obama's bullying and insulting tactics, and responded by insulting Obama back, and the talks collapsed in acrimony. The UN Climate Change Treaty was derailed, and the entire UN climate Treaty process is now essentially abandoned thanks to Obama's incompetence.

Trying to blame China for responding to Obama's bullying is silly---Obama is the one who stupidly tried to take over a private meeting hosted by China thereby insulting the Chinese leader in front of other world leaders. The facts are clear---Obama started the squabble.

China is a great world power. Obama was foolish to try insulting and bullying them. Once Obama insulted the Chinese leader the Chinese had no option but to push back at the conference.
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