[Pops]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the gated community where the "no retreat" law is called into question is called "The Retreat"?

[dinopello]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the gated community where the "no retreat" law is called into question is called "The Retreat"?

Some good friends of mine with 2 kids used to live here in a house near me, which is basically a city with no gated single-family home communities. After 9/11 I noticed a marked change in the wife who became very concerned about security. About 7 years ago they moved to Florida into a gated community in West Palm Beach County. I visited about a year ago and besides the characteristic of every fifth house being in foreclosure, the other characteristic I noticed was a pervasive nervousness about security. I suppose this is due to self-selection in part, but it also seems reinforced by the daily reminder that to get into your neighborhood you go through a guarded gate. Then, when they are out in the real world, that barrier is not present so it induces nervousness. Of course there is also the hyper-alertness to "outsiders". I sensed the nervous eyes on me as I was walking around my friend's gated community.

But, yeah - No retreat in The Retreat is pretty ironic.

[dinopello]

I'm all for CCW and no retreat at home but encouraging shootouts in public seems kind of a step backwards to me.

That's where I am too. In your home is unambiguous. There still will be mistakes made like the repair guy that your spouse called or your daughter sneaking her boyfriend in getting shot, but at least people can be aware that if they are in a house they are at risk. A law that allows a predator to persue and confront someone in any location and then shoot them and make up some claim of self defense is more wild than the wild west.

[Sixstrings]

There still will be mistakes made like the repair guy that your spouse called or your daughter sneaking her boyfriend in getting shot, but at least people can be aware that if they are in a house they are at risk.

Are gun owners that quick to shoot??? Police don't shoot first, why do citizens have that right? Castle doctrine has to be the law since you can't put the victim of a break-in on trial, I know that, but just in practice -- everyone is honestly that quick to shoot? Like, a repairman?

[Plantagenet]

Justifiable homicides are way up in Florida, something like a 186 since the law passed

Yes...justifiable homicide are up since "stand your ground" as there weren't hardly any before the law was passed.

BUT VIOLENT CRIME IS WAY DOWN

violent crime rates have DROPPED in Florida since stand-your-ground was passed

Criminals in Florida now mostly know that the old lady waiting for a bus or the pudgy white Hispanic guy in the "homeowners association" car may have a CCW permit.

[rangerone314]

What prevents a criminal in Florida from stalking someone until there are no witnesses around, and then shooting them, planting a knife on their corpse and claiming self-defense and getting away with murder?

[rangerone314]

What prevents a criminal in Florida from stalking someone until there are no witnesses around, and then shooting them, planting a knife on their corpse and claiming self-defense and getting away with murder?

You assert this as if there would be a problem pulling it off in most states. If there's no witnesses, its your story plus physical evidence. Comes down to whether the prosecutor and later jury believe you or not.

In Fl, with Zimmerman, it appears the authorities were inclined to believe Zimmerman, and there may be some modest physical evidence that lines up on his side. Not sure the result would be much different in most states, even if the wording and law sited would be different.

I assert the law seems to lower the bar. I support the castle doctrine, however. (So do my Mossberg 500 and AR15)

[dinopello]

It seems unlikely that anything much will happen with this particular case. Especially in light of some of the other examples

Joe Horn's 911 Call

Joe disregards multiple instructions to stay inside and instead leaves his house to shoot two burglary suspects.

[Cog]

Bunch of black people killed in Chicago last night but they were killed by other blacks so that is ok.

[dinopello]

Bunch of black people killed in Chicago last night but they were killed by other blacks so that is ok.

Illinois does also have a "Stand your Ground Law". Was the killing you refer to covered under that statute and the perps not charged? Can you provide a link ?

[Cog]

Illinois does not have a stand your ground law. These were simply murders among black folks who consider it a recreational affair. If it a white person kills one of them then its drama.


http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/

Chicago on Wednesday reached 100 homicides for the year—the fastest the city has hit this mark in at least seven years, RedEye and police data show.

Seventeen homicides have been recorded in the last week—including four each on Saturday and Sunday, a RedEye analysis of preliminary police information found.

Chicago has not reached 100 homicides in March since 2004, when the city logged 106 homicides before April 1, according to police data. The city reached 100 homicides last year on April 26, RedEye data show.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/cr ... o-20120330

Chicago - Thirteen people were shot, two fatally, in gun violence Thursday night. Just two separate shootings on the city’s South and West sides accounted for 10 of the people shot, police said.

The bloodiest incident of the night happened about 6 p.m. in the 1400 block of West 79th Street when shooters opened fire in a convenience store , striking six males ranging in age from 16 to 25.

Killed was Shawndell Harris, 22, of the 9100 block of South Perry Avenue, according to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office. He was dead at the scene, and four of the five others wounded were in critical condition, officials said.

Londale McNeal, a pastor at a church next door to the convenience store, said he heard “about 10 to 12 shots ring out” and saw two men in dark hoodies jump into a vehicle. Police think the shooting may be gang-related and said the suspects fled north on Bishop Street in a silver Chevrolet SUV.

[dinopello]

Illinois does not have a stand your ground law. These were simply murders among black folks who consider it a recreational affair.

I was going by wiki

Do you think the people killing should be arrested and the potential crime investigated if they claim self defense or just taken at their word ?

[Sixstrings]

A world of 7 billion people where children starve and die of disease every day and we lose two illegal alien drug traffickers from Columbia shot while in the process of looting. Big loss to the world.

Did you listen to the call?

At the end of the call, when police are almost there and after the dispatcher asked many times that Horn stay in his home, the man goes out the door (the burglars were not even on his land) and you hear him say "Hello, you're dead" and then shotgun blasts.

To my ears, it sounded sadistic. Why was it necessary to be cute and funny about it???

The man could have fired in the air. Or he could have at least done what police would do, give the person a chance to surrender. But he just made a cute Dirty Harry quip and shot two human beings down like they were possums.

I imagine "hello, you're dead" Joe Horn probably goes to church every Sunday.

(charges were never brought against Joe Horn)

[Cog]

Joe Horn should get a medal for removing two scum-bags from the planet.

Defense of property using lethal force is allowed in Texas and both the perps had extensive criminal records. Something you failed to mention Six.

By the way, a police dispatcher can not give legal or lawful orders to a free citizen. They can only advise.

[rangerone314]

2 illegal alien drug-trafficking convicted burglars shot and killed; I wonder how many future crimes were prevented and how much taxpayer money was saved?

Millions of "human beings" die every year, many of them a lot more deserving to live than the two scum bags Joe Horn killed.

If you want to listen, I have the world's smallest violin to play a sad song for them.

There's a lot to despise about conservatism, but one thing I despise about liberalism is their sympathy for predators, rapists and thieves.

[Plantagenet]

dup post

[Loki]

The biggest problem here is he could have at least fired a shot in the air and yelled "don't move!"

You are seriously suggesting “responsible gun owners” should shoot warning shots into the air? Utterly moronic. Ever heard the phrase “what goes up must come down”?

[Fishman]

Six, I've got some bad news for you. Peak oil has arrive, this is a peak oil site. With fewer resources there will be fewer cops, more crime. Your point rests on lots of resources, lots of cops. With the old saying, a liberal is just someone who hasn't been mugged, yours will be a diminishing viewpoint. Catch up buddy.

[Cog]

Its important to know the rules about the use of lethal force in your jurisdiction. The one in Illinois needs some work since its a bit confusing. We need the Castle Doctrine that most states have.

(720 ILCS 5/7-2) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-2)
Sec. 7-2. Use of force in defense of dwelling.
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if: (1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent,
riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or (2) He reasonably believes that such force is
necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.

Now if someone carefully breaks into your house in Illinois, rule 1 would not protect you the homeowner, so you have to rely on rule 2.

I believe its reasonable that anyone breaking into my house means me harm and that will govern my response. There won't be any warning shots and offers made to accept surrender. There will only be the sound of 00 buck hitting center mass on a perp.

[Pretorian]

We have a sub culture that has idealized gangsters.

First of all not we but they, second, any behavior is a reaction between intelligence and hormone levels. This is why young males with low IQs have a lion share of violent and /or stupid crimes. This has always been the case and it always will be, regardless of "culture".