[John_A]

It has been awhile, but the crash and burn of yet another peak oil site has brought him out of retirement. For awhile there everyone was worried about him because he was going to try and find food to eat which didn't require oil, just to prove a point. Apparently he not only succeeded, him still being alive, but he is rising like US oil production to the occasion of yet another peak oil site biting the dust before the oft declared but rarely seen peak oil itself shows up!

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/

[rollin]

The guy reminds me of a driver I knew. I said watch out we nearly hit several mailboxes, the driver responded with "Well, I haven't crashed yet." Just what we need, another self-important, self promoting, selective vision commentator to try and destroy the peak oil people. No thoughtful or clear headed person would ignore all the indicators and occurrences that show peak oil is happening, unless they had a personal agenda. Kicking people when they are down is a low form of self-aggrandizement.

[John_A]

The guy reminds me of a driver I knew. I said watch out we nearly hit several mailboxes, the driver responded with "Well, I haven't crashed yet." Just what we need, another self-important, self promoting, selective vision commentator to try and destroy the peak oil people.

Try? The peak oil people have been fleeing the sinking ship for a year or two now, TOD being just the most recent example. JD gloating about it is just turnabout is fair play, he called them on more than a little of their claims years ago, and is being proven right by both reality and their demise.

No thoughtful or clear headed person would ignore all the indicators and occurrences that show peak oil is happening, unless they had a personal agenda. Kicking people when they are down is a low form of self-aggrandizement.

Tell it to the TOD editors who did the same to any who dared question their editorial stance. Good for the goose, good for the gander.

[americandream]

What is there to be pleased about? That capitalism continues to operate an infinite principle on a finite planet. Oh wait, technology will prevail and we will cart resources back to our home planet when the going gets tough. Oh wait, even were the environment to buckle, we could relocate to the next well provisioned planet.

Fundamental point. All the for and against arguments will not stop continued globalisation. Nor will it stop the inevitable buffer. No one is wrong or right in this game...the system ensures that.

[dsula]

Try? The peak oil people have been fleeing the sinking ship for a year or two now

What do you mean by that? Are you saying peak oil is false? Are you saying it is in fact possible to take an every larger amount from a finite quantity? It is sure an interesting idea. I have to try this with my banc account.

[ralfy]

Lots of reports linked here:

https://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/

So much for "fleeing."

TS prefers reports and not blogs, but what does he present? A blog.

[ROCKMAN]

ralfy - Maybe I'm too close to the subject but I can't think of any linkage between the beginning or ending of any site about PO that has any bearing on the validity of the discussion. Same issue with the opinions of someone like JD or even myself. No offense to anyone here...I enjoy the contributions of our crowd greatly. But what we do here or what was done at TOD or what opinions folks like JD have doesn't make a bit of difference with the world's energy future. We're all just vocal commenters with our own "eye witness" accounts that vary from one to another.

[John_A]

Try? The peak oil people have been fleeing the sinking ship for a year or two now

What do you mean by that? Are you saying peak oil is false?

No. I mean when someone gets egg on their face, it is a normal human reaction to clean it up, run away, hope nobody else notices in order to minimize the damage to one's self esteem. Peak oil is a given, the only dispute being over date, and Rockman having made reasonable explanations as to why it doesn't matter all that much when compared to other consequences of a commodity becoming more scarce.

If peak oil hysteria, fear, the meme, whatever, goes away tomorrow, there will still be issues of resource scarcity, including that of oil. The number of strawmen which have been assembled for peak oil to joust against is nothing short of astronomical, and are mostly distractions from the real issue of resource depletion.

[John_A]

But what we do here or what was done at TOD or what opinions folks like JD have doesn't make a bit of difference with the world's energy future.

Well, that would depend on how close any particular web denizen is to the policy makers, and the influence they might have, now wouldn't it? While someone logging wells certainly doesn't have much in the way to do with talking to the right people considering national laws and regulations and thereby potentially changing the direction of something long term, those specializing in fronting the industry aren't just folks who once logged wells. What about those scientists who are asked by TPTB about the future of resources, EIA folks receiving Congressional requests for information, requests from Cabinet secretaries, resource modelers for the likes of IEA or EIA and how their work effects models and the prognostications of entire government agencies, people who answer questions and thereby might influence the consequences of tax policy, geologic sequestration policy, or just general overviews on the perspective of others in the resource game, such as peak oil folks like ASPO? They have been trying pretty hard since last December to get access to, and influence on, people inside of EIA for a reason. They certainly seem to think it is important to cozy up to TPTB, and my guess is that reason is influence, a desire to not just be the folks who are always crying wolf, to have their views heard on a national stage.

JD as just another blogger like TOD is just another blogger, absolutely. The diffence being, his skepticism was well founded, he dodges the many strawmen of peak oil pretty well, has the disclaimer right there on the top of his website to show it, he is intelligent and has a certain flare of sarcasm to the resource challenged. And even more important? He is still here, and the likes of LATOC, Simmons and TOD are not. Reality can be tough on a website, and JD's ideas will go on, whereas those of TOD will not.

[TheDude]

It has been awhile, but the crash and burn of yet another peak oil site has brought him out of retirement.

Think about what you've written there, man. No wait, I'll do it for you - JD has come out of retirement to gloat at TOD's retirement...see the disconnect? Huh?

JD, I love that guy. He'll always be associated in mind with the era of Superbowl wardrobe malfunctions and Rumsfeld going on about "known unknowns." The Anti-Savinar. Funny bastard too, as was Matt. Did some solid work as well, to be frank. Let's all raise a toast with a hearty glass of VAT-GROWN MEAT!

[Pops]

I tip my stem-cell burger to Johnny.

I like JDs thinking, he places a notice for dummies that says he believes oil is finite and will peak, just not while he's around. Absolutism at it's best. But not to be outshone by the number drillers at TOD, who, contrary to Laharrere's warning that anyone quoting more than a couple of digits is deluded, took their own math way too seriously.

The problem with both sides is they think there are sides, lol

[Lore]

Some turds just won't flush, but seriously folks, the conversations here would be rather myopic if it weren't for opposing views. In the end the inevitable truth will always win out.

[John_A]

Some turds just won't flush, but seriously folks, the conversations here would be rather myopic if it weren't for opposing views. In the end the inevitable truth will always win out.

'Tis true. Here is the one which took down TOD. Too bad they couldn't fire up their meme back in 1980, they could have ridden that drop along longer than they did the plateau which..doesn't even really look like a plateau on this scale, does it?

[ralfy]

ralfy - Maybe I'm too close to the subject but I can't think of any linkage between the beginning or ending of any site about PO that has any bearing on the validity of the discussion. Same issue with the opinions of someone like JD or even myself. No offense to anyone here...I enjoy the contributions of our crowd greatly. But what we do here or what was done at TOD or what opinions folks like JD have doesn't make a bit of difference with the world's energy future. We're all just vocal commenters with our own "eye witness" accounts that vary from one to another.

My concern is not to change "the world's energy future" but to figure out what will happen next. Since I am not an expert of every matter concerning this issue, then I rely on reports from various organizations that study the issue, and in several cases from different perspectives.

That's where the site which I mentioned comes in. It is merely a collection of links to reports published the last five years or so from multinational banks, energy agencies, research centers, academic institutions, oil companies, military organizations, and government offices located in different countries that study the issue.

The list is not complete and likely never will be, but it shows that, far from the claim that peak oil is "going, going, gone," its effects are taking place (e.g., using unconventional oil, high oil prices), and if arguments made about unconventional production not lasting, oil consumption increasing, and resources and time needed for transition are right, then our problems are obviously far from over.

[ROCKMAN]

"Reality can be tough on a website, and JD's ideas will go on, whereas those of TOD will not."
I don't see that. I was on TOD for years and have been hanging in these parts for quite a while now. There was nothing on TOD that I don't see here at PO.com: same opinions, same arguments, same agreements, same charts and graphs, same links, some of the same people, etc. Except for the difference in formats the contents of the two sites are the same IMHO. IOW can someone point out one aspect of TOD we don't see here?

[John_A]

"Reality can be tough on a website, and JD's ideas will go on, whereas those of TOD will not."
I don't see that.

Well, we know that TOD is toast, therefore that part is true. And as far as JDs ideas going on, sure they will here. Here is a classic, and will be right for some time in the future yet

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... -than.html

I was on TOD for years and have been hanging in these parts for quite a while now. There was nothing on TOD that I don't see here at PO.com: same opinions, same arguments, same agreements, same charts and graphs, same links, some of the same people, etc. Except for the difference in formats the contents of the two sites are the same IMHO. IOW can someone point out one aspect of TOD we don't see here?

I wasn't comparing TOD to PO.com, but TOD and their need to close down because their peak oil prognostication hasn't gone so well versus some of JDs ideas, many of which directly contradict the peak oil line.

You've been around the block Rock, remember when peak oil was supposed to stop transoceanic shipping? Well, according to TOD peak oil happened, but transoceanic shipping just kept plugging along. JD didn't fall for that though, and ultimately that is because TOD didn't understand the practical side of oil and BAU as well as JD did.

[cipi604]

The best source for data was always this website , not TOD.

[John_A]

The best source for data was always this website , not TOD.

Data?

[ralfy]

Well, we know that TOD is toast, therefore that part is true. And as far as JDs ideas going on, sure they will here. Here is a classic, and will be right for some time in the future yet

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... -than.html

Readers should consider JB's comment found below the blog entry.

[dsula]

If peak oil hysteria, fear, the meme, whatever, goes away tomorrow, there will still be issues of resource scarcity, including that of oil.

Ok. So what's those issues then?