[Graeme]

Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria

The revelations come amid high tension in the Middle East, with US, British, and French warship poised for missile strikes in Syria. Iran has threatened to retaliate.

The strategic jitters pushed Brent crude prices to a five-month high of $112 a barrel. “We are only one incident away from a serious oil spike. The market is a lot tighter than people think,” said Chris Skrebowski, editor of Petroleum Review.

Leaked transcripts of a closed-door meeting between Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan shed an extraordinary light on the hard-nosed Realpolitik of the two sides.

Prince Bandar, head of Saudi intelligence, allegedly confronted the Kremlin with a mix of inducements and threats in a bid to break the deadlock over Syria. “Let us examine how to put together a unified Russian-Saudi strategy on the subject of oil. The aim is to agree on the price of oil and production quantities that keep the price stable in global oil markets,” he said at the four-hour meeting with Mr Putin. They met at Mr Putin’s dacha outside Moscow three weeks ago.

“We understand Russia’s great interest in the oil and gas in the Mediterranean from Israel to Cyprus. And we understand the importance of the Russian gas pipeline to Europe. We are not interested in competing with that. We can cooperate in this area,” he said, purporting to speak with the full backing of the US.

telegraph

[americandream]

This is a battle over who leads the Arab Empire (Islam) into the new Millineum, whilst it undergoes its own Reformation and integrates fully with global capitalism. Saudi which is the preferred candidate, is hemming in Iran. Russia and China will extract some concessions but will ultimately run with the status quo, global capitalism.

[Ibon]

This is a battle over who leads the Arab Empire (Islam) into the new Millineum, whilst it undergoes its own Reformation and integrates fully with global capitalism. Saudi which is the preferred candidate, is hemming in Iran. Russia and China will extract some concessions but will ultimately run with the status quo, global capitalism.

I think this is correct. I say that not sharing your singular focus on the political economic system but from an ecological point of view. Things cluster and tighten when they reach their most fragility.

What we are doing to our agriculture (mono cultures, limited patented varieties of seeds) etc. we are also doing with our economics and politics.....also with the digital media everyone is hooked into.

There is a bizarre synergy to how we are mirroring our environment. We are reducing diversity and resiliency, eliminating redundancies as we depend more on more on artifical landscapes of a very limited number of agricultural crops. Much like global capitalism is extending its range in a similar cancerous movement.

This "mono" tization is happening on many fronts.

Pretty good recipe for fragility. Worth contemplating.

[dissident]

Oh my, pipsqueak KSA making threats and incentives to Russia. LOL. Bandar got the middle finger and for some reason this article hasn't caught on to this fact. The KSA's enforcer is the USA, the KSA being a US protectorate. I am not sure the US leadership is stupid enough to have some Saudi nobody determine its policy with the only other nuclear power on the planet, Russia, that needs to be considered seriously by the USA.

[dissident]

This is a battle over who leads the Arab Empire (Islam) into the new Millineum, whilst it undergoes its own Reformation and integrates fully with global capitalism. Saudi which is the preferred candidate, is hemming in Iran. Russia and China will extract some concessions but will ultimately run with the status quo, global capitalism.

It's easy to confuse a policy of state survival and WWIII avoidance as one big capitalist enterprise. China is joined at the hip with the west in economic terms (just visit any store, including ones selling food) but Russia is not. This is why there is so much shrill hate spewed at Russia. It's hilarious listening to western media drones yapping about lack of democracy in Russia (forget about what the Russian electorate actually wants, one of the reasons that opinion polls are basically never cited for Russia) while giving authoritarian China a pass.

Russia cannot go to war with the west over Assad. He is not even a real ally and the navy repair facility at Tartus (not a navy base) is not valuable enough to defend at all costs. But putting the breaks on the insane western neo-colonialism is a worthwhile endeavour since sooner or later it will arrive on Russia's soil as has been the pattern so often in the past.

[americandream]

This is a battle over who leads the Arab Empire (Islam) into the new Millineum, whilst it undergoes its own Reformation and integrates fully with global capitalism. Saudi which is the preferred candidate, is hemming in Iran. Russia and China will extract some concessions but will ultimately run with the status quo, global capitalism.

I think this is correct. I say that not sharing your singular focus on the political economic system but from an ecological point of view. Things cluster and tighten when they reach their most fragility.

What we are doing to our agriculture (mono cultures, limited patented varieties of seeds) etc. we are also doing with our economics and politics.....also with the digital media everyone is hooked into.

There is a bizarre synergy to how we are mirroring our environment. We are reducing diversity and resiliency, eliminating redundancies as we depend more on more on artifical landscapes of a very limited number of agricultural crops. Much like global capitalism is extending its range in a similar cancerous movement.

This "mono" tization is happening on many fronts.

Pretty good recipe for fragility. Worth contemplating.

Agriculture and nature has been commodified and the list grows by the day. Once fully commodified, an asset, organic entity, cultural icon...whatever..is stripped down to the core of its relevance in capitalism....its potential to accumulate.

You will note that with the passage of time, the bourgeoisie green movement which lacks a basis in revolutionary socialism is in fact lowering the bar in terms of the commdification of nature, turning a blind eey to things that would in the heyday of its birth, have been protested loudly.

Only by resolutely opposing accumulation can we render life to its rightful place.

[sparky]

.
As dissident point out , the Kingdom has zilch traction with Russia , they have been politely told off.
Russia has been subbed consistently by the geriatric , corrupt Saudi royal family ,

but true friends are closer the U.S. chief of staff , is in Jordan ,in the special control and signal bunker next to Amman
plenty of military worthies are there too , Saudis , Jordanians and Israelis .
Officially it's to protect Jordan , unofficially its to coordinate mayhem across the border in Syria .
Jordan is quite fragile and a lot of military exercises plus some billions dollars of funds have been send their way .

[americandream]

This is a battle over who leads the Arab Empire (Islam) into the new Millineum, whilst it undergoes its own Reformation and integrates fully with global capitalism. Saudi which is the preferred candidate, is hemming in Iran. Russia and China will extract some concessions but will ultimately run with the status quo, global capitalism.

It's easy to confuse a policy of state survival and WWIII avoidance as one big capitalist enterprise. China is joined at the hip with the west in economic terms (just visit any store, including ones selling food) but Russia is not. This is why there is so much shrill hate spewed at Russia. It's hilarious listening to western media drones yapping about lack of democracy in Russia (forget about what the Russian electorate actually wants, one of the reasons that opinion polls are basically never cited for Russia) while giving authoritarian China a pass.

Russia cannot go to war with the west over Assad. He is not even a real ally and the navy repair facility at Tartus (not a navy base) is not valuable enough to defend at all costs. But putting the breaks on the insane western neo-colonialism is a worthwhile endeavour since sooner or later it will arrive on Russia's soil as has been the pattern so often in the past.

The elites who run the globe think internationally and the Russian elite, having capitulated to capitalism in the wake of '80's Afghanistan, are as much fully integrated on the global liquidity train as are, say, the Chinese.

To a large extent, none of the previously socialist bloc have an appetite for the struggle, realising as have many of the leadership, that the road to globalisation was written into the books when Britan exported its unique cultural gift to the world via America, its most dynamic colony.

Having said that, globalisation is fraught with terrible risk as there is no certainty that we will elevate to a higher form of modernity. In fact the risk is even higher that we will fragment in the collapse of the resource base that supports our civil systems.

Of course, discussions like this hopefully get more contemplating our options but the passage of time takes us closer to the point of no return and I don't expect any of the former revolutiionary nations to step into the breach. The Chinese elected to capitulate. The Soviets had the shit beaten out of them in '80's Afghanistan, with collusion from the traditional capitalist West, the USSR's former socialist allies, particularly China and the non-aligned nations.

So I think Russian's days in activism are over.

[americandream]

.
As dissident point out , the Kingdom has zilch traction with Russia , they have been politely told off.
Russia has been subbed consistently by the geriatric , corrupt Saudi royal family ,

but true friends are closer the U.S. chief of staff , is in Jordan ,in the special control and signal bunker next to Amman
plenty of military worthies are there too , Saudis , Jordanians and Israelis .
Officially it's to protect Jordan , unofficially its to coordinate mayhem across the border in Syria .
Jordan is quite fragile and a lot of military exercises plus some billions dollars of funds have been send their way .

We shall see. Personally, I believe that much of the world elected the Saudis to the leadership role of the empire. Iran is less reliable being driven to some degree by ideology,albeit an arse about face ideology. In contrast, the Saudis are pretty much engaged with capitalism, at all levels, despite the pretext of Wahhabism.

[Keith_McClary]

These secret agreements aren't worth the paper they're (not) written on. Gaddafi had a secret agreement with the US to give up his nukes in exchange for ... .

[americandream]

These secret agreements aren't worth the paper they're (not) written on. Gaddafi had a secret agreement with the US to give up his nukes in exchange for ... .

I am not one for agreements or secret societies. Being engaged with capital to the degree that the elite are as capitalists tends to dictate fairly standad behaviours. Of course, with Britain and America being at the heart of the liquidity network, it's not unusual that they police the system.

Ghadaffi on the other hand was also driven by an ideoloigy which did not sit confortably with free liquidity, a regional trade zone with teeth, the African Union. In contrast, trade zones such as the EU are largely meaningless and for the benefit of the masses.

[Tanada]

I find it enlightening that Russia leaked a secret meeting transcript right after the USA drew yet another line in the sand. If this isn't a subtle warning to back down I don't know what would qualify. Russia has a lot of pride invested in Syria, if Putin were to back down now he would lose face, not to mention credibility, with his allies. Trying to force him to do so in such a clumsy tactic is rather weak and pathetic looking, and releasing the transcripts makes that perfectly clear to everyone paying attention.

Of course most Americans are not paying attention and I get the feeling very few in the EU are paying attention either, we have enough economic problems to occupy our attention without foreign events intruding very much.

[americandream]

I find it enlightening that Russia leaked a secret meeting transcript right after the USA drew yet another line in the sand. If this isn't a subtle warning to back down I don't know what would qualify. Russia has a lot of pride invested in Syria, if Putin were to back down now he would lose face, not to mention credibility, with his allies. Trying to force him to do so in such a clumsy tactic is rather weak and pathetic looking, and releasing the transcripts makes that perfectly clear to everyone paying attention.

Of course most Americans are not paying attention and I get the feeling very few in the EU are paying attention either, we have enough economic problems to occupy our attention without foreign events intruding very much.

The Russian elite are possibly looking for concessions as they acquiesce in giving up their Cold War standing in exchange for a better seat at the global top table. I wouldn't pay much attention to these events. No one is going to deliver us from the system other than ourselves...the common man.

[sparky]

.
No , the Russian elites are certain they are in grave danger
since the fall of the Berlin wall it has been one retreat after another ,
they loose buffer countries and get nice words sometimes .
they expect a surprise decapitating nuclear first strike by the U.S.
the now upgraded anti missile shield to mop up the few survivors
That's what they fear
the U.S. have amply demonstrated that they are a law unto themselves
much given to wage war anywhere against anyone for vague reasons

[americandream]

.
No , the Russian elites are certain they are in grave danger
since the fall of the Berlin wall it has been one retreat after another ,
they loose buffer countries and get nice words sometimes .
they expect a surprise decapitating nuclear first strike by the U.S.
the now upgraded anti missile shield to mop up the few survivors
That's what they fear
the U.S. have amply demonstrated that they are a law unto themselves
much given to wage war anywhere against anyone for vague reasons

Capitalism breeds a new cultural mindset, both in the rank and file as well as the capitalist class (despite appearances). I would suggest that you watch and observe and then we shall exchange posts in a few months time and I will further explain my thoughts. As it is, you are saying this and I that and it will get us nowhere. You will need to observe the widespread breaking down of the old Cold War era rules and this current foasco in Syria, following on from numerous recent others in the ME region should eventually inform us that these public displays are pretty much meaningless. Assad is on his own and will need all his skills to avoid the public humiliation he risks experiencing.

[dissident]

I find it enlightening that Russia leaked a secret meeting transcript right after the USA drew yet another line in the sand. If this isn't a subtle warning to back down I don't know what would qualify. Russia has a lot of pride invested in Syria, if Putin were to back down now he would lose face, not to mention credibility, with his allies. Trying to force him to do so in such a clumsy tactic is rather weak and pathetic looking, and releasing the transcripts makes that perfectly clear to everyone paying attention.

Of course most Americans are not paying attention and I get the feeling very few in the EU are paying attention either, we have enough economic problems to occupy our attention without foreign events intruding very much.

It would be nice if the lack of awareness/interest of the US public translated into the foreign policy of its government. Unfortunately, that is very far from being the case. As for Putin saving face. That is a cookie cutter analysis that is detached from reality. Russia has no allies (Syria and China are not allies like France and the UK are the allies of the US) and more like "colleagues" that form transient partnerships on very specific issues. And which at any time can flip against Russia. So Putin could care less about saving face in front these fairweather friends.

Russia's position on Syria has been the one grounded in international law, unlike that of the west, which is clearly using the Salafi jihadis as proxies and claiming they are the "legitimate" voice of Syrians. I recall the same BS about Nicaragua. Yet who is in the leader there now? That's right Daniel Ortega and not some Contra stooge. In fact, the Contras had to find some enclave in the north to live since they were so despised by the population. Some "voice of the people and freedom".

Russia is worried about the neo-imperialist west eventually attacking it directly. You may find this unrealistic, but actions speak louder than words. The argument often made that Russia's economy would collapse because Europe would use Qatari or Iranian gas is simply inane. There may be a transient glut of gas in the US but there isn't one in the world market. Russia is justly worried about its security from a bunch of rogue nations who feel they are above the law and routinely demonize it. The sort of demonization that precedes war.

[radon1]

China is joined at the hip with the west in economic terms (just visit any store, including ones selling food) but Russia is not.

Looks like you and others (except AD) might have a bit too rosy view of Russia and the Russian "elite". Russia is a dysfunctional country, run by a bunch of third-ranked US/EU bureaucrats, who just happen to be Russian born and hold Russian names.

Putin himself seems to have fallen a victim to trivial greed at some stage, and now helplessly watches the unmanageable bureaucratic morass around him.

This is why there is so much shrill hate spewed at Russia. It's hilarious listening to western media drones yapping about lack of democracy in Russia

This is true, on the other hand... Amazing how psychopathic they are about a country that in many aspects is more pro-western than the west, and how this never ever stops.

Russia is worried about the neo-imperialist west eventually attacking it directly.

This is far more probable than many would think.

[americandream]

This is why there is so much shrill hate spewed at Russia. It's hilarious listening to western media drones yapping about lack of democracy in Russia

This is true, on the other hand... Amazing how psychopathic they are about a country that in many aspects is more pro-western than the west, and how this never ever stops.

This has largely to do with the fact that the Russians had to be dragged and beaten into accepting the infinite growth machine whereas the Chinese almost embarrassed themselves with the haste with which they gave the then (nominally) socialist system a heave. There are a few ex-KGB officials in the current government and I suspect the US is not quite sure about their capitalist credentials. After all, anyone who truly understands Das Kapital never quite sees capitalism in the same light, ever again.

[Graeme]

Syria, the Saudi connection: The Prince with close ties to Washington at the heart of the push for war

He has been gone from the capital for eight years, but Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who as Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to Washington wielded influence over no fewer than five different US presidents, has re-emerged as a pivotal figure in the struggle by America and its allies to tilt the battlefield balance against the regime in Syria.

Appointed by the Saudi king, his uncle, last year as the head of the Saudi General Intelligence Agency, Prince Bandar has reportedly for months been focused exclusively on garnering international support, including arms and training, for Syrian rebel factions in pursuit of the eventual toppling of President Bashar al-Assad.

It is a long-term Saudi goal, that in the past several days has been subsumed by the more immediate crisis over the purported use of chemical weapons by Damascus, which, according to Riyadh, must be met by a stern response. That message is being delivered to President Barack Obama by the current Saudi Ambassador in Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, who is a Bandar protégé.

independent

Factbox: Why small producer Syria matters to oil markets

[americandream]

Syria, the Saudi connection: The Prince with close ties to Washington at the heart of the push for war

He has been gone from the capital for eight years, but Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who as Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to Washington wielded influence over no fewer than five different US presidents, has re-emerged as a pivotal figure in the struggle by America and its allies to tilt the battlefield balance against the regime in Syria.

Appointed by the Saudi king, his uncle, last year as the head of the Saudi General Intelligence Agency, Prince Bandar has reportedly for months been focused exclusively on garnering international support, including arms and training, for Syrian rebel factions in pursuit of the eventual toppling of President Bashar al-Assad.

It is a long-term Saudi goal, that in the past several days has been subsumed by the more immediate crisis over the purported use of chemical weapons by Damascus, which, according to Riyadh, must be met by a stern response. That message is being delivered to President Barack Obama by the current Saudi Ambassador in Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, who is a Bandar protégé.

independent

It has less to do wht the fact that this fellow has clout in the capitals at the heart of the liquidity machine and more to do with the fact that the Brits established a complaint monarchy at the heart of the world's energy region, a client that warbles pleasing tunes at the appropriate times.

In addition, the Sauds are also engaged in assisting a Reformation of Islam so all is well in the Arabic Empire and we are on course for the addition of another billion into the consumer network (minus the mediaval baggage of religion).