[Sixstrings]

Russia slams Saudi Arabia for refusing UN Security Council membership

Russia on Friday slammed Saudi Arabia for refusing to accept its seat on the UN Security Council, calling the kingdom's decision "strange" in light of its anger at the international community to end the conflict in Syria, AFP reported.

"With its decision, Saudi Arabia has removed itself from the collective work of the UN Security Council to support international peace and security," the ministry said.

A decision of such magnitude would have to have been taken by King Abdullah or Crown Prince Salman, said a Saudi analyst who asked not to be named.

"Saudi Arabia has been working on (getting onto the Security Council) for the last three years. They trained diplomats, male and female, the cream of the Foreign Ministry, our best talented youths. Then somebody made the decision suddenly to pull out," he said.

"The kingdom's arguments arouse bewilderment and the criticism of the UN Security Council in the context of the Syria conflict is particularly strange," AFP quoted the ministry as saying.

The kingdom condemned what it called international double standards on the Middle East and demanded reforms in the Security Council.

Citing the Security Council's failure to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, take steps to end Syria's civil war and to stop nuclear proliferation in the region, Riyadh said the body had instead perpetuated conflicts and grievances.

Riyadh's frustration is mostly directed at Washington, its oldest international ally, which has pursued policies since the Arab Spring that Saudi rulers have bitterly opposed and which have severely damaged relations with the United States, Saudi analysts have said.

Saudi Arabia has also been angered by a rapprochement between Iran, its old regional foe, and the United States, which has taken root since President Barack Obama spoke by telephone last month to the new Iranian President, Hassan Rouhani, in the highest-level contact between the two countries in more than three decades.
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Russia-blasts-Saudi-Arabia-for-refusing-UN-Security-Council-seat-329113

Hm.. American foreign policy is falling apart.

Saudis aren't happy with Putin the statesman driving events, and think Russian chess games are no solution at all, but have "instead perpetuated conflicts and grievances." They're not happy with the US either, we screwed up on Syria, sending our navy out then sitting there not knowing what to do, and we let the Russians take control.

If we lose Saudi Arabia then that's it, that's the only ally over there worth having and we've got no mideast policy without the Saudis. They are as crucial as Israel. Without KSA, we may as well pull out and forget about the middle east. Hopefully relations aren't that damaged with the Saudis, that's such a long term ally.

Security council is broken, it can't solve problems in any real way, and certainly not with the Russians in charge and that's why the Saudis declined the seat.

That's my take.. not looking for a debate, just interested in what others make of this? It's a big deal for them to turn down that seat.

[Plantagenet]

Security council is broken, it can't solve problems in any real way, and certainly not with the Russians in charge and that's why the Saudis declined the seat.

That's my take.. not looking for a debate, just interested in what others make of this? It's a big deal for them to turn down that seat.

The Saudis don't have a beef with the Russians. The KSA is mainly angry at Iran, their main rival for hegemony in the middle east.

The KSA has been funding the Syrian rebels for years while Iran supports Assad with money and troops. Looks like KSA is going to lose and Iran is going win that bet as Assad looks likely to survive.

Now the US is moving to reconcile with Iran, if only Iran promises to stop its nuke program. Iran will apparently be allowed to keep the enriched uranium they've made so far and keep their centrifuges and their entire nuke program intact, but will promise not to do it anymore. From the KSA perspective it looks like another victory by Iran, because it leaves them close to making nukes.

I wouldn't be surprised to see KSA start up its own nuclear weapons program now to try to catch up with Iran.

[Sixstrings]

Wall Street Journal, Saudis "outraged" at Obama admin's foreign policy:

RIYADH—The Obama administration's handling of overtures on Syria and Iran have outraged regional ally Saudi Arabia, which is signaling it wants to do more to boost the power of armed Sunni rebel groups on the ground in Syria as the U.S. pursues diplomacy.

Saudis fear that Syrian President Basher al-Assad will use the time afforded by U.S.- and U.N.-backed diplomacy on Syria "to impose more killing and to torture its people," Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal said Thursday night in New York, in a warning that was overshadowed by the attention paid to the weekend's first public contacts in three decades between the presidents of Iran and the U.S.

Saudis now feel that the Obama administration is disregarding Saudi concerns over Iran and Syria, and will respond accordingly in ignoring "U.S. interests, U.S. wishes, U.S. issues" in Syria, said Mustafa Alani, a veteran Saudi security analyst with the Geneva-based Gulf Research Center.

"They are going to be upset—we can live with that," Mr. Alani said Sunday of the Obama administration. "We are learning from our enemies now how to treat the United States."

Two developments have particularly alarmed Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, another Gulf state: U.S.-backed diplomacy that is giving Mr. Assad an opportunity to surrender his chemical weapons, heading off a U.S.-military strike against the Assad regime; and warming relations between Messrs. Obama and Rouhani.

"The current charade of international control over Bashar's chemical arsenal would be funny if it were not so blatantly perfidious, and designed not only to give Mr. Obama an opportunity to back down, but also to help Assad butcher his people," Prince Turki said then.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303643304579104910000148876

[Sixstrings]

The KSA has been funding the Syrian rebels for years while Iran supports Assad with money and troops. Looks like KSA is going to lose and Iran is going win that bet as Assad looks likely to survive.

What's your opinion, Plant? Should the US still be concerned about Iran getting the bomb? Does it not matter anymore, just let the Saudis and Israel deal with it on their own?

Obama's foreign policy in Syria, with Russia taking the lead and Assad staying in power, has strengthened Iran. So the million dollar question is, can we trust the Russians in Syria, can we trust Iran that they'll just enrich uranium but not go for a bomb.

That's the upshot of Obama's foreign policy, the US has pushed away the Saudis and this will all lead to more nuclear states in the middle east, so.. does it matter?

[Plantagenet]

That's the upshot of Obama's foreign policy, the US has pushed away the Saudis and this will all lead to more nuclear states in the middle east, so.. does it matter?

IMHO, If the US isn't going to make Iran get rid of its nuke program, then KSA is going to start its own nuke program. Its like the old Tom Lehrer song:

First we got the bomb, and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's okay,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way.
Who's next?

France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
'Cause they're on our side (I believe).
China got the bomb, but have no fears,
They can't wipe us out for at least five years.
Who's next?

Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right:
One for the black and one for the white.
Who's next?

Egypt's gonna get one too,
Just to use on you know who.
So Israel's getting tense.
Wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd," says the psalm,
But just in case, we better get a bomb.
Who's next?

Iran is getting close, apparently. KSA is getting nervous about it.

[SeaGypsy]

They can't sit at the front bench of the UN without being forced to acknowledge direct sponsorship of factions in Syria with NO RESPECT- NOT A MORSEL- for 'rules of war.

[Sixstrings]

Developing into a bigger story. Now the headline on Drudgereport:

Saudi Arabia severs diplomatic ties with US over response to conflict in Syria

Saudi Arabia is an important ally to the U.S. as it provides a secure source of oil
Saudi diplomats now promise a 'major shift' in relations with the U.S. over inaction in the conflict in Syria

Saudi Arabia's intelligence chief is vowing that the kingdom will make a 'major shift' in relations with the United States to protest perceived American inaction over Syria's civil war as well as recent U.S. overtures to Iran, a source close to Saudi policy said on Tuesday.

'The shift away from the U.S. is a major one,' the source close to Saudi policy said. 'Saudi doesn't want to find itself any longer in a situation where it is dependent.'

It was not immediately clear whether the reported statements by Prince Bandar, who was the Saudi ambassador to Washington for 22 years, had the full backing of King Abdullah.

The growing breach between the United States and Saudi Arabia was also on display in Washington, where another senior Saudi prince criticized Obama's Middle East policies, accusing him of 'dithering' on Syria and Israeli-Palestinian peace.

The United States and Saudi Arabia have been allies since the kingdom was declared in 1932, giving Riyadh a powerful military protector and Washington secure oil supplies.

Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter, ploughs much of its earnings back into U.S. assets. Most of the Saudi central bank's net foreign assets of $690 billion are thought to be denominated in dollars, much of them in U.S. Treasury bonds.

'All options are on the table now, and for sure there will be some impact,' the Saudi source said.
He said there would be no further coordination with the United States over the war in Syria, where the Saudis have armed and financed rebel groups fighting Assad.

Saudi anger boiled over after Washington refrained from military strikes in response to a poison gas attack in Damascus in August when Assad agreed to give up his chemical weapons arsenal.

Representative Chris Van Hollen, a member of the U.S. House of Representatives' Democratic leadership, told Reuters' Washington Summit on Tuesday that the Saudi moves were intended to pressure Obama to take action in Syria.

'We know their game. They're trying to send a signal that we should all get involved militarily in Syria, and I think that would be a big mistake to get in the middle of the Syrian civil war,' Van Hollen said.

'And the Saudis should start by stopping their funding of the al Qaeda-related groups in Syria. In addition to the fact that it's a country that doesn't allow women to drive,' said Van Hollen, who is close to Obama on domestic issues in Congress but is less influential on foreign policy.

In Bahrain, home of the U.S. Fifth Fleet, a simmering pro-democracy revolt by its Shi'ite majority has prompted calls by some in Washington for U.S. ships to be based elsewhere.

Many U.S. economic interests in Saudi Arabia involve government contracts in defense, other security sectors, health care, education, information technology and construction.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2472680/Saudi-Arabia-severs-diplomatic-ties-US-response-conflict-Syria.html

Well, I guess Obama will go down as the president who lost Saudi Arabia, after that country being in the American camp since 1932. Lynchpin of the middle east all through the cold war. We fought a war to protect it (Desert Shield and Storm), and keep it. So now we just let it go.

I wonder what the Jewish lobby is thinking? We are ditching Israel here too, Iran is their biggest threat too. These are the two lynchpins of middle east policy, Israel and Saudi Arabia, it's the only reason we're involved over there. I'm concerned the Obama admin doesn't know what it's doing. That flippant remark by Obama's advisor "in a country where women can't even drive" is very naive and shows he doesn't understand things.

American business and companies are deeply involved there and you don't get flippant about just just telling them to go piss off "you don't let your women drive anyway." These are very serious geopolitical decisions, they affect the US keeping strategic control of oil in case we ever have another world war or other global emergency (you do NOT just lightly let Saudi go, it's as important now as it was in the cold war.) And this affects and endangers Israel so much more now, and I don't see any seriousness or competence out of our White House on foreign policy.

I'm concerned nobody in the Obama admin is thinking strategically, protecting US interests for the long term, things we have held onto all through the cold war, for fifty and eighty years.

[pwallmann]

Just a Canadian's take on this, but from my view from up north it looks like Foreign Policy has been the one bright spot for Obama as of late.

It may have been dumb luck (since I see this as a positive) but what better result could have come in Syria? Yeah, Obama had to swallow some pride and let Putin do his song and dance in the NYT, but Syria appears to be complying with the UN program. The US saves some money, some lives, and avoids another clusterf**k in the middle east where the best case scenario (as far as I can tell) would have been to elevate ???????? to leading a country with a huge stockpile of chemical weapons. Instead, Russia gets some good press and gets to celebrate their behavior while acting in a manner that we can get behind. What am I missing? Assad staying in power? Less then ideal, no doubt, would anything short of a full landed invasion have taken him out? And again, who would have taken over?

With Iran, if they comply with intrusive monitoring, again, what more can you reasonably ask for? If they don't, then it's back to the status quo.

I do agree though that KSA might start pouting and start their own nuclear program up. But they did sign the non-proliferation treaty (same as iran) and if they agreed to protocol then who cares? That being said, if they didn't follow protocol they'd be a bit tougher to sanction then Iran.

All in all, it just seems like a win for the US to me. But what do I know? Our foreign policy tends to be a bit less consequential.

[Sixstrings]

Iran is getting close, apparently. KSA is getting nervous about it.

Plant, you're an American voter, so what is YOUR opinion? SOMEONE in charge in our government needs to be thinking seriously and long term strategically, and I'm not seeing it. You don't just throw up your hands and lose assets the US has held onto for 50 and 80 years.

Is Obama on top of it? Do you criticize Obama on everything but this?

You vote Republican, but do you care about protecting Israel as much as I do? I would hope so. These are some major moves going on with the Obama admin, ditching the Saudis over Iran is abandoning Israel too. You're a voter, what do you think? You agree with Obama's policies (or I contend, lack thereof)?

[Plantagenet]

Is Obama on top of it? Do you criticize Obama on everything but this?

I don't criticize Obama on everything. I criticize him where I think he's on the wrong track.

As far as the split with KSA goes, I never thought Obama would keep his promise to stop Iran from getting nukes. KSA may be surprised and angry that Obama is moving towards rapprochement with Iran, but its exactly what I expected.

You vote Republican

No I don't. I'm independent.

do you care about protecting Israel as much as I do? I would hope so. These are some major moves going on with the Obama admin, ditching the Saudis over Iran is abandoning Israel too.

Again, this is exactly what I expected from Obama. The Israelis are too smart to make a public break with the Obama administration like the the Saudis are doing, but I'm sure they realize that times are changing and they should be prepared to be fully responsible for their own security now.

[Sixstrings]

The Israelis are too smart to make a public break with the Obama administration like the the Saudis are doing, but I'm sure they realize that times are changing and they should be prepared to be fully responsible for their own security now.

Israel CAN'T ever make a break with the US. Ultimately they're in a far weaker position than KSA. Israel is surrounded by enemies, and we're their only real security. We're it. Not the Chinese, not the Russians, nor the Europeans. We are all that keeps Israel alive.

US had been doing a pretty good job all these many decades, starting with the Carter peace and since then we've kept regional stability there and managed to have an Israeli ally on one hand and muslim allies on the other and somehow juggle it all and make it work.

It's a big deal if we lose KSA, now -- they've got the oil (the real reason the ME has been so important, ever since the cold war, and why this region is strategic to the US), they've got the MONEY, and they've got the largest regional military. It's a big loss to lose the Saudis, I don't see how bullsh*t pussyfooting with Iran and the Russians is worth it.

Iran will still get nukes anyway, so why play games with them and damage our own strategic position and lose our allies over it?

Plant, if Israelis get seriously spooked then the American Jewish lobby will make some phone calls and Democrats and Republicans will both get a clue pretty fast. We must defend Israel anyway, it's a political reality, so why let things devolve to where it's so much harder for us once push comes to shove? It's stupid to lose the Saudis.

[Sixstrings]

Russian state media gloats:

Saudi Arabia stamps feet at lack of US backing on Syria, Israel

Members of the Saudi Arabian royal family are threatening to rethink the strategic partnership with the US following America’s reluctance to back up Riyadh’s plans for Iran and Syria. Washington is putting on a brave face, praising relations as normal.

“Prince Bandar told diplomats that he plans to limit interaction with the US,” an unnamed source close to Saudi policy told the agency, stressing that the shift from the US is promised to be a “major one” as Saudis find themselves too much dependent on Washington.
http://rt.com/news/saudi-arabia-us-conflict-588/

Good lord, the Obama admin has screwed up so bad. If it not for my differing views on domestic policies (and poison pill Sarah Palin), we really needed John McCain in office.

We'll just have to see if we can get to 2016 as fast as we can. I'm pretty confident Hillary and Bill know wtf they're doing internationally. If things get worse I will certainly consider voting Republican, depending on who the R's come up with. Someone like a Chris Christie doesn't know anything about the world, and the other contenders are all nutty tea party.

But my vote is definitely up for grabs next go around. National security is #1, that has to come first, you can't have anything else if the world winds up dumping our bonds and dollars and Russia and China are running roughshod all over us.

[Plantagenet]

Plant, if Israelis get seriously spooked then the American Jewish lobby will make some phone calls and Democrats and Republicans will both change their tune.

The Jewish Lobby is one among many lobbies. Muslims also lobby, as do businesses, unions, non-profits, liberals, conservatives etc. etc. I don't agree with you that the "Jewish lobby" can call the tune in the White House or Congress---it has influence but not as much as it once had.

We must defend Israel anyway, it's a political reality

Not really. If Obama decides to go in a different direction, then US policy will change.

why let things devolve to where it's so much harder for us once push comes to shove? It's stupid to lose the Saudis.

Obama is thin-skinned. He has a pattern of getting in quarrels. You name it---Republicans, Russia, the Brits, China, the UN, KSA, Israel, and even the Dalai Lama. Obama has insulted each of them. Don't ask me why, but thats his modus operandi... who knows what was said when KSA asked Obama about his flip flops on US policies on Egypt and Syria and Iran. Whats done is done--- things are now unravelling with KSA.

[Sixstrings]

Whats done is done--- things are now unravelling with KSA.

Well, it's an epic f*ckup.

We need Republicans on foreign policy matters, not the neocons with massive wars and occupations (Syria is smallfry compared to Iraq and Afghanistan), but there's a middleground here where the US really does need to protect its position in the world and longterm interests and our national security.

Problem is, Republicans have gone crazy. Romney was weird. Couldn't trust him. But I wish we had John McCain right now lately, on these foreign policy matters. I hope Hillary will be better in 2016 -- did you notice, things got so much worse with the Obama admin when she resigned?

[Plantagenet]

We'll just have to see if we can get to 2016 as fast as we can.

No sense hurrying. Theres plenty of time for more interesting developments. Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

[Sixstrings]

Obama calls US commitment to Israel ‘unwavering’

“I see this visit as an opportunity to reaffirm the unbreakable bond between our nations, to restate America’s unwavering commitment to Israel’s security and to speak directly to the people of Israel and to your neighbors,” Obama said at a welcoming ceremony at Tel Aviv airport.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-calls-us-commitment-israel-unwaveri

Well that's funny, "unwavering," all Obama has done is wobble all through this issue, on the Saudis and Israelis and turks and all our allies over there, muslim and jewish. Look, anyone with any sense knows Iran is full of sh*t just as North Korea was, and we can't trust the Russians either -- they're playing their own game, and it's all about advancing Russia, not America nor American allies, and I for one don't want to follow Russia anywhere.

Saw this in my news searches, very interesting, as the US wobbles Israel and the Saudis have been looking to cooperate together:

Israel and Saudi Arabia are coordinating policies to counter US détente with Iran

Associates of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu Wednesday, Oct. 2, leaked word to the media that high-ranking Gulf emirate officials had recently visited Israel, signaling a further widening in the rift between Israel and President Barack Obama over his outreach to Tehran. These visits were in line with the ongoing exchanges Israel was holding with Saudi and Gulf representatives to align their actions for offsetting any potential American easing-up on Iran’s nuclear program.

DEBKAfile reports that this is the first time Israel official sources have publicly aired diplomatic contacts of this kind in the region. They also reveal that Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf emirates have agreed to synchronize their lobbying efforts in the US Congress to vote down the Obama administration’s moves on Iran.
http://www.debka.com/article/23323/Israel-and-Saudi-Arabia-are-coordinating-policies-to-counter-US-d%C3%A9tente-with-Iran-

That article is dated Oct 2, did the lobbying fail? Were we too busy with our government shutdown? Have the Saudis really given up?

Look guys, we're like Rome, we're not going to keep this globalism going with our foreign allies buying our bonds and dollars and backing us up when we need them, if we are not there to sort crap out when all our allies are complaining of a problem on their border. And ultimately, the whole point of our massive military is to *prevent* potentially hostile empires from rising in the world and anything that could ever seriously threaten our national security.

Russia is there for its allies, we have to as well or we're going to lose them.

And China is looking to take over leadership in the Pacific too, away from the United States. These are serious decisions if we just fiddle in Rome, leaving Britannia and Gaul to their own devices -- the empire will crumble.

[Plantagenet]

Russia is there for its allies, we have to as well or we're going to lose them.

Too late. We're already losing them. Look at Egypt.

Egypt had been a US ally for 35 years---ever since Camp David----nonetheless Obama undercut the Mubarak regime and helped the Muslim Brotherhood gain power in Egypt. KSA protested that. Then the US stood by as the Egyptian military carried out a coup against the Islamists, and now the US is cutting aid to the Egypt military. Basically, we've alienated three successive regimes --- all sides in Egypt now blame the US.

It took real talent to undercut our old ally in Egypt, and then undercut the group that gained power in their place, and to be now undercutting the next group that took over as well.

Its gotten to the point where its just entertaining. I'm very curious to see what will happen next???

[ROCKMAN]

P – And now, perhaps at just a small level, Egypt and Israel are developing some economic ties. Israel now has its huge offshore NG field producing. Egypt, which used to export NG to Israel, will now import NG from Israel during non-peak portions of the day for domestic use as well as run some of the NG through their underutilized LNG plant so Israel can market some of its production to the EU.

Religion will be an issue in the ME forever. But at the moment financial ties are beginning to foster at least a beginning of some potential normalization. And some motivation for increased violence. Granted there is a heck of a long way to go. But at the moment the ME countries seem to be handling the situation without a great of help or interference from the US. Russia and the US may have resolved the chem weapon issue in Syria but there are still thousands of innocents being killed every month. A number of countries have picked their sides in that conflict. Some for financial reason…some for perhaps more religious reasons. But the US has remained out of it except for some verbal activity…so far. In the meantime $billion are going in to fuel the less than civil war by various other players in the region. The US seems to remain more the spectator in events over there than a participant. More so once we finish pulling out of the current military adventure.

[SeaGypsy]

I guess 6 missed the story from the recent Haj? American and European Muslims were corralled under Saudi Government arrangements to a particular tent group- with no special security- why? They are Muslims at the Haj- the Holy Pilgrimage- WTF difference does it make what country they are from right? They were set upon, bashed, stabbed and driven out with death threats.

Where are the Saudi sponsored POW camps 6? For all the captured enemy soldiers from Assad's army? Guess what?- They don't need prisons for dead people- there are no f'ing prisoners. How can you fight a war for more than 2 years, take substantial ground, towns and cities- without taking prisoners?- Easy- you summarily execute them.

Oh and women can drive- in daylight in the company of a male relative.

Need a bit of help around the house-? No problem for what a citizen gets on unemployment you can hire 3 full time 12 hour a day 6 day a week 'guest' workers. $100 a week.

Screw KSA- they need a snubbing. The US is by far the Saudi's biggest customer- stop buying for a while- pump prices would cause some pain- not much before the Saudi's bend to US will.

There is also a hell of a difference between 'having Israel's back' and doing whatever they say. Of course they are now working with the Egyptian military- who are tasked with the job of removing around 400 thousand Hamas the Morsi government allowed to move into Sinai.
Anyone actually getting serious in attacking Israel will find themselves in deep s#!t very, very quickly.

[Sixstrings]

Too late. We're already losing them. Look at Egypt. Egypt had been a US ally for 35 years---ever since Camp David----

Saudi too, even longer, it's Americans that have been all over that place since the oil got started up in 1932. Very long ties with American business -- I wonder what this diplomatic rift will mean for that, are American companies and Americans going to get the boot?

Who comes next, after us? Don't count Russia out, they're poking at the Saudis for now but once cut loose from us, Saudi Arabia is the most strategically valuable asset in the world. The Russians, or Chinese would want it. They wanted it in the Soviet days. If there's ever a world war, the first move will be getting control over middle east oil -- and that's what we've just let go of, and for what, "talks" with Iran giving them time to build their bomb? And us following Vladimir Putin?

Its gotten to the point where its just entertaining.

Well, I don't find it entertaining, I find it disconcerting, I'm an American and I'm seeing our country fall apart domestically and abroad, and we can't seem to get our sh*t together.

I don't want to turn on the teevee at night and see that the President doesn't seem to know what he's doing and is getting his lunch handed to him by Vladmir Putin, while at the same time the whole gov was shutdown and we look like a banana republic and finally China threatened to dump American bonds.

Putin knows what he's doing, the Chinese know wtf they're doing, and we'd better get our sh*t together too.