[KaiserJeep]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/23/energy-company-will-pay-1-million-for-killing-birds-with-wind-mills/

"Wind energy is not green if it is killing hundreds of thousands of birds."

[dohboi]

Every tall structure kills birds. Most modern windmills do so less than most other tall structure (such as glass covered skyscrapers). But, yeah, the company should have filled out the proper forms in this case.

[dorlomin]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/23/energy-company-will-pay-1-million-for-killing-birds-with-wind-mills/

"Wind energy is not green if it is killing hundreds of thousands of birds."

Gee thats a unique angle. Never heard that before.


55 million birds killed by cats in the UK every year

[rollin]

Large windmills have never been declared as not killing birds, they just do so at a much reduced rate. In cases of migratory routes and bat routes windmills are shut down during the critical periods to further reduce kills.

Cars kill lots of birds, birds are poisoned by the thousands to protect crops, hunters kill birds every year and chemical exposure kills an unknown number of birds.

The key here is a tradeoff, do a few dead birds keep us from trying to stabilize and transistion civilization? Any collapse of civilization would kill birds in huge quantities. Continuing BAU will kill even more through climate change and loss of habitat. Windmills are a way to mitigate this destruction.

Cars kill about 40,000 people in the US and injure many more, why not an article on car kills? The windmill article's intent is clear and the reality of the situation is clearly missing.

[Plantagenet]

The weird thing is the special treatment that windmills get. For instance, killing an endangered species like a condor is a serious federal crime. However, if a windmill kills a condor it is perfectly OK with the goverment.

Goverment says its OK for windmills to kill condors


Looks like a good site for a windmill farm.

[KaiserJeep]

What usually happens when one US Government agency disagrees with another one is that they fight it out in Federal Court, with the taxpayer paying court costs and employing high-dollar private lawyers on both sides.

The lawyers win every case and the taxpayers lose every case, is my view. It's infuriating.

[KaiserJeep]

They should just duke it out with pistols.

Oh wait! Lead shot kills condors.

I'd watch two bureaucrats fight a duel on live TV....

[Surf]

According to this article

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/environment-report-reveals-top-causes-bird-deaths-canada-182231599.html
Cat 200 million
buildings 25 million
power lines 25 million
Car 14 million

Wind turbines kill about 16,700 a year. The wind turnbins in the original article killed about 160 birds and only 14 were raptors.

I have not heard of any condors being killed by wind turbins. Currently the leading cause of condor deaths is lead poising.

[rollin]

According to this article

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/environment-report-reveals-top-causes-bird-deaths-canada-182231599.html
Cat 200 million
buildings 25 million
power lines 25 million
Car 14 million

Wind turbines kill about 16,700 a year. The wind turnbins in the original article killed about 160 birds and only 14 were raptors.

I have not heard of any condors being killed by wind turbins. Currently the leading cause of condor deaths is lead poising.

Well that says it all, wind turbines are the least of the birds problems. The next thread should be "Are cats green or an environmental disaster?"

[Strummer]

This whole issue is pure propaganda. For example the Burgenland region in Austria is one of the leading forefronts of wind energy in the world, and at the same time a very important bird sanctuary for migrating birds and water birds around the Neusiedl lake... there have been tons of studies on this done there and all have found the windmills to be safe (when they are built in proper configurations and locations).

[Timo]

I agree that there are some places where wind farms should not be built. Better to continue deep sea drilling for oil, deal with the leaks and spills that energy source creates, clean it up with millions of gallons of toxic chemicals, kill billions of fish and other forms of aquatic life in the process, and call it all good. If any new, cleaner technology comes along, we'd best ignore it unless it is absolutely perfect in every way for every living thing on the planet.

[Shaved Monkey]

What are the greener alternatives ?

[dohboi]

"What are the greener alternatives ?'

Use less energy.

[Shaved Monkey]

I'm pretty sure the birds will still get sliced from the turning blades if we use the power or not.
I think the preferred method of killing birds for the anti wind farm advocates,is through air pollution* caused by burning fossil fuel to generate power.

*been proven to slice a few years of humans lives too.

[Timo]

"What are the greener alternatives ?'

Use less energy.

That's anti-capitalst. Energy (electric and natural gas) are regulated as utilities, yet are provided by for profit corporations, dependent on #1) the exploitation of consumers to use as much energy as they can to maximize their profits, and #2) the exploitation of natural resources for the maximum EROI. It's supply and demand. Maximize the demand by making your consumers dependent on your product for every new widget that reduces your requisite ability to think and do something for yourself, and use that demand to justify the raping of the planet to produce the energy your consumers can't live without. What's more important: jobs, or a sustainable future? Jobs wins out, every time. We are very limited in our ability to think long-term. Our system of democracy limits our thoughts to only the length of time until the next election. Someone always comes along to make promises to delay or deny the inevitable. We've created God in our own image. Ditto for politicians.

[ROCKMAN]

SM - "I think the preferred method of killing birds..." Actually if you've been down around the huge wind farms in south Texas during dove season you would realize the preferred method involves a 12 gauge shotgun. LOL. Really. Millions of birds...very tasty birds. And don't get started about the migratory ducks and geese.