[KaiserJeep]

Radioactive load on truck stolen in Mexico causes concern

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/radioactive-load-on-truck-stolen-in-mexico-causes-concern-1.2450239

Probably doesn't mean much, but that would be enough radioactive material to deny use of the lower half of Manhattan Island if dispersed by high explosives after being reduced to a fine powder. Unlikely but possible.

[Tanada]

Radioactive load on truck stolen in Mexico causes concern

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/radioactive-load-on-truck-stolen-in-mexico-causes-concern-1.2450239

Probably doesn't mean much, but that would be enough radioactive material to deny use of the lower half of Manhattan Island if dispersed by high explosives after being reduced to a fine powder. Unlikely but possible.

There are literally tons of radioactive source materials scattered all over that could be used for dirty bomb making. I doubt this is much of a threat compared to the millions of tons of chemicals stored all over in tank complexes and forgotten rail cars. YMMV

[Subjectivist]

NCIS or CSI or one of those other police shows did an episode last year where terrorists stole Co-60 X-Ray machines from several dentist offices to get enough material to build a dirty bomb. Seems like a lot of work for not much impact on the target population.

[KaiserJeep]

Dirty bombs are terror weapons, and do most of their damage by causing panic. Then they render an area uninhabitable for hundreds or thousands of years. Cobalt-60 is a relatively short-lived isotope with a half life of about 5.25 years. A well manufactured bomb based on the material could render say the financial district of NYC uninhabitable for about four half lives or 21 years.

If Plutonium-238 were used instead (that is the isotope used in nuclear thermo-electric batteries) the half-life of 88 years would mean the same area would be unhealthy for 352 years.

[Subjectivist]

Dirty bombs are terror weapons, and do most of their damage by causing panic. Then they render an area uninhabitable for hundreds or thousands of years. Cobalt-60 is a relatively short-lived isotope with a half life of about 5.25 years. A well manufactured bomb based on the material could render say the financial district of NYC uninhabitable for about four half lives or 21 years.

If Plutonium-238 were used instead (that is the isotope used in nuclear thermo-electric batteries) the half-life of 88 years would mean the same area would be unhealthy for 352 years.

Poppycock! Those are the kind of totally unscientific claims made by the media and have nothing to do with the way the real world works. For an engineer you sure seem eager to jump to all sorts of media hyped conclusions instead of basing your statements on real world examples. Try reading up on what really happened at Chernobyl and what the environment there is like. The fallout from Chernobyl was thousands of times stronger than any puny terrorist dirty bomb, but the environment is perfectly healthy. There are a few hot spots I would avoid, but 99% of the total area contaminated in the accident is not an exposure threat to people passing through and much of it is near background levels.

Besides that there are many naturally high background areas like the beaches in Brazil or the Ramsar region in Iran. Or you could just look at airline pilots, a profession with some of the highest occupational exposure rates and best tracked health statistics on the planet.

Radiation is nothing like the boogeyman the media claims it is and it is very dissipointing that an engineer would support such fraudulent claims.

[dolanbaker]

They've found it!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25273457
Six people in Mexico have been admitted to hospital with possible radiation poisoning, following the theft of a truck carrying radioactive material.

Police are blocking access to the hospital, in central Hidalgo state.

The truck carrying medical equipment with radioactive substances inside was stolen in the area earlier this week.

A container housing the radioactive waste was found abandoned two days later close to where the truck had been stolen, the authorities said.

Anyone who came into contact with the material - cobalt-60 - faced life-threatening levels of radiation, officials warned.

Hospitals in the area had been told to look out for people with symptoms of radiation poisoning.

[Subjectivist]

There was a case 15 or 20 years ago in Brazil when some scrap metal collectors got seriously hurt because they found. Cesium-137 source capsule on an old X-Ray machine that they kept because it would glow in the dark when they opened it. The owner was suppossed to remove the source material before letting the scrappers have it but somehow in the process it was missed.

September 13, 1987 – In the Goiânia accident, scavengers broke open a radiation-therapy machine in an abandoned clinic in Goiânia, Brazil. They sold the kilocurie (40 TBq) caesium-137 source as a glowing curiosity. Two hundred and fifty persons were contaminated; four died.

. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ci ... ents#1980s

[KaiserJeep]

-snip-

Poppycock! Those are the kind of totally unscientific claims made by the media and have nothing to do with the way the real world works. For an engineer you sure seem eager to jump to all sorts of media hyped conclusions instead of basing your statements on real world examples. Try reading up on what really happened at Chernobyl and what the environment there is like. The fallout from Chernobyl was thousands of times stronger than any puny terrorist dirty bomb, but the environment is perfectly healthy. There are a few hot spots I would avoid, but 99% of the total area contaminated in the accident is not an exposure threat to people passing through and much of it is near background levels.

Besides that there are many naturally high background areas like the beaches in Brazil or the Ramsar region in Iran. Or you could just look at airline pilots, a profession with some of the highest occupational exposure rates and best tracked health statistics on the planet.

Radiation is nothing like the boogeyman the media claims it is and it is very dissipointing that an engineer would support such fraudulent claims.

I am familiar with the IEEE articles on Chernobyl as well as the popular press. I'm not aware of any place on Earth where a nuclear dirty bomb has gone off. I believe the actual impact is unknown, and although you stated your opinion, I don't accept that finely divided, weaponized radioactive isotopes will have the same impact as natural fallout from a burning graphite pile.

When Anthrax spores are finely divided and weaponized, they are hundreds of times as virulent as naturally propagated Anthrax spores. My GrandFather ran a dairy farm and taught us how to recognize the symptoms and better yet, how to avoid contracting the disease from sick cattle - and it's actually pretty hard to get infected.

[Subjectivist]

I am familiar with the IEEE articles on Chernobyl as well as the popular press. I'm not aware of any place on Earth where a nuclear dirty bomb has gone off. I believe the actual impact is unknown, and although you stated your opinion, I don't accept that finely divided, weaponized radioactive isotopes will have the same impact as natural fallout from a burning graphite pile.

When Anthrax spores are finely divided and weaponized, they are hundreds of times as virulent as naturally propagated Anthrax spores. My GrandFather ran a dairy farm and taught us how to recognize the symptoms and better yet, how to avoid contracting the disease from sick cattle - and it's actually pretty hard to get infected.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0wuc8SsMMI

Well for one thing anthrax spores reproduce when they successfully infect a host increasing in number exponentially. Radioactive particulates on the other had decay over time and certain types of them bioaccumulate into tooth and bone deposits where they are concentrated but sequestered for long periods allowing them to decay before much further interaction takes place.

For some reason you assume that a deliberate dirty bomb release of a few hundred grams of radioactive materials would be more severe than the millions of grams released by Chernobyl. This is a very odd stance to take, IMO.

[sparky]

.
I've worked with cesium sources for on line metals slurries analysis .
another one was to measure liquid chlorine levels in a storage tank

there is very strict procedures to operate and give them back to the statutory authority

I had a Geiger counter , took it home to check on Radon in the basement
it come from the concrete , there was more clicks than close to the sources
took it to Bondi and Coogee beaches , the sand was much more radioactive
some natural hot-spots like in Kerala have level way above the recommended maximum
the local population only statistical health deviation is that they are somewhat healthier


a dirty bomb would simply panic people , the rain and a good flush would wash the stuff into the effluents
I'm sure the rats wouldn't even notice

[Tanada]

Back 20 years ago Michigan had the big Radon panic, a great many people bought Radon test kits for their basements and got all excited until the Realtors told them they were better off not knowing. If you had a 'radon problem' and didn't disclose it you could get sued when selling your home, if you did disclose it your property value was strongly decreased, and if you retrofitted to eliminate it you had to spend many thousands of dollars to do so. Ignorance was/is bliss on the Radon issue. All over a gas that will give maybe one in 10,000 an increased risk of lung cancer 40 years in the future. Media hype presents all radiation in hollywood fashion, its invisible and a killer so it must all be feared. Well if you breath pure nitrogen gas it is invisible and a killer too, but as 78% of your air it is just fine and dandy. As far as that goes if you breath pure Oxygen it is invisible and will quickly kill you as well, but as 20% of every breath you take it is necessary for your survival. Radiation doses below a certain threshold cause zero health problems, as in below the threshold dose negative effects are undetectable. Anyone who spends three minutes researching easily finds this information, but the myth of no threshold persists in the media at all levels.

[sparky]

.
I've come to the conclusion that paranoia is an in-build safety mechanism
for animals somewhere on the food chain .
it's not because there is no sign of danger that there is none
fear of unknown risks is simply getting out of control
something like better safe than sorry elevated to the pathological level

Human paranoia , like the immune system doesn't have enough to get scared with
disorder result , allergies for the immune system and paranoia for our safe and sheltered lifestyle
that maybe why people crave the adrenalin rush of a joy ride or buggy jumping ,
nothing like a good heart pumping rush to make one contented with the world ,

[Subjectivist]

.
I've come to the conclusion that paranoia is an in-build safety mechanism
for animals somewhere on the food chain .
it's not because there is no sign of danger that there is none
fear of unknown risks is simply getting out of control
something like better safe than sorry elevated to the pathological level

Human paranoia , like the immune system doesn't have enough to get scared with
disorder result , allergies for the immune system and paranoia for our safe and sheltered lifestyle
that maybe why people crave the adrenalin rush of a joy ride or buggy jumping ,
nothing like a good heart pumping rush to make one contented with the world ,

Interesting, I always figured the extreme sports movement with base jumpers and those extreme skiers who jump out of helicopters onto untested mountain slopes was a reaction to the boredom caused by our extremely safe lifestyle.

I figured it is the only way left for them to get an adrenaline rush, thanks for confirmation. Personally I am acrophobic so a roller coaster is more than terrifying enough to put me in adrenaline overload.