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10 Years of PeakOil.com

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Pops » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 12:20:17

PeakOil.com was created in late 2003 and went live sometime in early 2004. Admin registered and built the site and since then he's kept it running with the help of a ragged pack of volunteers. Salute!

I thought it would be interesting for each of us to dig up our first post and see what it looks like now after however long. To find your first post, just click on your handle in any thread (or click "member view" and right under "View new posts" you'll see "Return to advanced search" - click that and search for yourself; "*" in search terms and [your handle] in author)

Anyway, I'll start; this was April 3rd 2004

It seems to me that it is pretty obvious that any finite resource will have a mid point of availability. It isn’t a huge leap them to understand that the high point of discovery indicates the eventual high point of production. While economists can wax about “demand destruction” and “replacement technology” the difference is that this “commodity” is fundamental to our ENTIRE way of life, there is no replacement technology to this fantastically “dense” energy source and the few possibilities will take years and huge investments to even get close. Demand destruction in this case relates to the reduction of the world FOOD supply for kripe sakes!

Believe it or not, I didn’t come to “Peak Oil News” to debate (or rant) about the validity of peak oil, there are lots of sources of information and evidence available for those willing to read and decide for themselves. It is a very scary thing to get your head around, but here are our plans FWIW.

We are going the “Lone Farmer” route; relocating away from large populations, learning more agrarian skills, and preparing for the (hopefully) long slide. In the interim (5,10, ? years) I will continue working as a graphic designer, I can work anywhere there is dependable power and a satellite link to communicate with my rep back in town. This has been our plan for years for early/semi retirement, its just earlier than expected. We don’t look at it as a “bunker” so much as a “school” to teach our kids and grandkids (and ourselves) how our parents and grandparents got by without cheap oil.

We are “Ebaying” and yard-saling our late 20th century technology and replacing it with early 20th century technology; out with the electric guitar and in with the acoustic. Our small budget includes alternative power but also lots of “elbow grease” powered solutions.

I don’t believe there will be an oil “crash” soon, but there certainly could be an economic crash as the cost of oil and virtually everything else begins its inevitable rise. That is the wild card; how long do we have to prepare before the cost of preparing is out of reach or the necessities unavailable?


So at that time we were in California in the midst of the RE boom and that and the credit bubble were top of our minds. We'd already decided to abandon the CA real estate market for (literally) greener pastures but hadn't decided exactly where. I'd become somewhat freaked out after 9/11, not by terrorists but by our Neocon government's response. The credit and RE bubbles on top of PO and "limits" generally, all made me want to get away from the coast. They say it never rains in California and that's true (many parts are desert, even the central valley) but I believe the result of that is that Californians (and really any people massed together like lemmings) have not the slightest idea how to handle adversity or any ability to make do for themselves. IOW, crowds scare me.


What I've learned.

I knew there was a real estate bubble and in our area of the Central Valley where home prices were driven by Bay Area commuters I knew that higher priced fuel would kill the market. I knew that there also must be a credit bubble because I personally knew people who were getting mortgages without proof of income and that when the market popped, so would those mortgages and the local economy. What I didn't know was there was really no control over the "market" and just how far out on a limb the banks were allowed to go in order to rip off their customers.

I believed that there was an oil supply crunch ahead but of course I didn't know just how fast China's demand was going to grow so I didn't expect it so soon. I certainly didn't think we'd already run into the production wall and supply of conventional, cheap, easy oil was already maxed out.

I didn't think we'd go straight from increasing production to decreasing production overnight, IOW, no "oil crash". I did think however that folks would want to understand the reason behind rising prices and would adjust proactively once they understood the situation. That turns out not to be the case for the most part, folks do see the rising gas price and make adjustments reactively but I don't know if very many are thinking of a longer term trend.

As for the "lone farmer" part, we did buy a farm in the Ozarks. The "lone" part refers to owning our own place rather than join an "eco-village" or some other type of formal co-op. Turns out that we've become quite a bit more a part of the community than I'd have thought. No big deal, not Transition Town stuff, just neighborly sharing, trading, helping out, etc. That part of my plan has been very successful, we've learned boat-loads about how to get by.

Again, in the back of my mind I'd thought that about now would be the point where supply would become constricted and prices would rise and keep the economy constantly at the edge of recession and what we'd learned of farming we'd be putting into practice as my income failed. We passed through some of that territory back in '09-'10 and the economy keeps trying to recover but each time the price of oil is right there to slow it back down. Interestingly demand in the US has been falling fairly steadily. Of course employment is falling too but no bread lines as yet...

Anyway, dig up your first post (or second or third :) ) and share how your views have changed - or not.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 13:02:22

My first actual post after ages of lurking in the shadows
Subjectivist wrote:Russia has two fast reactor operating and several more under construction.

http://www.insc.anl.gov/cgi-bin/sql_int ... id&qval=12

The system was built to prove that a commercial-size fast reactor could be constructed using the manufacturing methods and materials developed and tested in the BOR-60 program. Experience has shown that the operation and maintenance costs (reliability, availability, capacity factor) of power generation for the BN-350 plant are economically competitive with traditional (fossil-fuel or light water reactor) power plants; however, the capital cost was high for this demonstration plant. The BN-350 reactor system has also been utilized for a wide range of experimental work supporting fast reactor development; and several design improvements were developed for the next generation, BN-600, design. However, in June 1994, the reactor was shut down because of a lack of funds to buy fuel. In addition, the operating license of BN-350 has now expired. It is reported that Russia's Ministry of Atomic Energy (MINATOM) has proposed a joint project to the Kazakh Atomic Energy Agency for extending operation of the BN-350 by up to 10 years, then decommissioning it and providing replacement power. According to another report, the Kazakh State Corporation for Atomic Energy plans to build a second 135 MW(electric) fast reactor to replace the BN-350.

The BN-600 sodium-cooled fast reactor built at the Beloyarsk Nuclear Power Station, designed for 600 MW(electric), produces 560 MW(electric) and has been in operation since 1980. Significant improvements (over BN-350) were applied in the secondary system and the fuel discharge burnup was doubled. These measures significantly decreased the capital investment; however, the BN-600 electrical generation cost is still twice that of a VVER-1000 reactor. Experimental studies were performed in BN-600 to evaluate the safety performance of fast reactor power plants, and to investigate a variety of advanced materials; several design improvements were developed for the next generation, BN-800, design.

The developmental and design work for the BN-800 design was completed and construction started at two sites, Beloyarsk and South Urals in 1986. Construction was suspended between 1990-93 because of economic crises and negative public opinion in the wake of the Chernobyl accident, although the current Russian energy program calls for completion of the first unit in 2000. The BN-800 design incorporates improvements in the secondary system and reactor materials as developed in the BN-600 testing program. Recent changes in the Russian nuclear regulations (zero-void-worth criterion) and increased collaboration with the Western countries have led to recent studies of modified BN-800 core design configurations.


Despite all the media hype over Fukishima I still belive our most environmentally and climate friendly choice is nuclear power. At the time I was irritated win all the mis information I was seeing posted about nuclear power, now I am kind of numb too it. People will believe what they want to believe, right up until they die from it if necessary. The ultimate case of cutting off your nose to spite your own face.

I still believe oil is peaking and things are going to get tough, I moved back to my birth state three years ago to settle in a small town surrounded by farms.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 13:15:08

My first post from April 29, 2005.
Postby Tanada » Fri 29 Apr 2005, 17:29:32
The USA Federal gov takes in about 75 million dollars a day in fuel tax on cars alone, if they were to take that sum every day and use it for tax incentives of say $5000.00 per vehical for true hybrid cars and trucks that would add 15,000 more hybrids per day incentive to the public. Right now Ford, Honda and Toyota could not meet that demand, but create the demand and they would shift production to meet it.

$5000.00 would be enough of a boost to make the Ford Escape Hybrid cheaper to buy than the standard, and you would save fuel for the entire life of the vehical. The same is true of the Hybrid Honda Accord and the Toyota Highlander Hybrid increase the mix to include trucks, SUV's and family sedans, the three most popular vehical types.


How easy it all seemed back then, the Government would decide to act by providing incentives for people to conserve and the down slope after the peak would be smooth and easy.

Needless to say my Government's response has done nothing to support my earlier optimism, politicians of all stripes have proven to be even more blind than the public who voted them into office.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Quinny » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 14:30:39

When I looked back I was worried that I might have seemed a bit tin foil, but I'm not too unhappy about my first post :)

Quinny wrote:Hi

New to forum - and Peak Oil scenario, but nice to meet people who are considering issues that have concerned me for a long time. I actully thought I was fairly much alone and feel to a certain effect vindicated by the existence of this forum and other similar websites. As a student in the late 70's and early 80's I was seen as unusual as being a Mathematician/Physicist interested in Politics and I recall reading a book called 'Fuel's Paradise' which greatly influenced my outlook on life.

I became a local politician as a young man and rose to a relatively senior position in local government at a very young age. I had intentions of aiming for Parliament, before a spell working in Westminster lead to me becoming disillusioned with the need for compromise and the overwhelming power of patronage.

During my time as Chair of the Regional Environment committee we produced the first overall Agenda 21/ Green report on Sustainability. There were many people involved in Politics were concerned about Green issues, but my concerns about the critical nature of the problem were seen as the over exuberance of youth. I'd done the maths and the sums didn't add up especially when Thatcher spent our oil revenues destroying the unions. (Not the they'd make a significant difference, but with a low growth and technical fix scenario, who knows). Whenever I tried to steer discussion onto global energy issues, the discussion inevitably switched to current local govt issues such as waste management.

I retired from politics about 7 years ago partly in frustration at the lack of urgency and attention paid to long term global issues.

Since then I've been trying to 'do my bit' on a personal level; Re-using, Recycling etc (my car runs on re-cycled vegetable oil), but most of my colleagues and friends think I'm slightly insane.
I haven't actually done much research into the Peak Oil scenario because I'd come to dismiss most of the nonsense peddled as news today, so I haven't been keeping abreast of things.

It's great to find a group that takes the situation seriously. The UK's high dependence on imported food is a situation that worries me greatly as simply taking an environmentalist approach of sustainability won't help in the short term, and I fear that there is major risk of social unrest in the next few years.

As an alternative to meeting physically (costs, environmental issues etc) has anyone thought about an online meeting using VOIP or something similar. If anyones interested I might be able to help setup a conference.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby davep » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 15:04:15

My first post on July 25th 2006...

OK, this is my first post here.

I've been aware of peak oil for a couple of years and have been gradually changing my lifestyle in order to attempt to lessen the blow. I have a wife and a daughter.

I've moved from SE England to Italy in April this year), and have got rid of substantial debts in the process. I'm currently searching for a farm (it'll have to be a near ruin if I don't want to get into debt again).

I've been looking into various alternative energy solutions including solar troughs, with the design goal being availability of materials and cheapness of the solution rather than overall effeciency. Now I'm in sunnier climes I can start testing prototypes. It may become a very useful skill in the future.

I'm looking at getting a firearms licence, but like everything else in Italy, it's something of a bureaucratic nightmare. I'll be looking at a 12 gauge, a semi-auto and a pistol (if permits allow).

I've been slowly building up an arsenal of books from organic farming to lathework (I've bought a small lathe as well). I'm looking at stirling technology and steam engines, as well as using presses for oil (it would be a waste of olive oil, so I'm looking at other potential crops, not necessarily edible for fuel).

I'm slowly weaning my wife onto the idea by getting books on conserves, pickling etc. But being Italian, she seems a bit loathe to take on a farming life (it seems to be seen historically as a demeaning form of work here). Anyway, that's a work in progress.

I'm also looking at desalination in various guises, but would need somewhere near the coast for this (and it ain't cheap on the coasts here). Failing that, something with a stream would be useful for ram pumps, irrigation, electricity generation etc.

Anyway, enough of the rambling and thanks for sharing all your good ideas.


Since then I bought my ruin in France and my wife is somehow still with me. It's been tough having to travel far and wide for well-paid work and in the process of financing the house upgrades I kind of lost track of the plans I'd made. In the six years I've been in France I've got far less done than I would have liked. All I need is for my new business venture to make me a few million and I can get back to the basics of frugal living :-D
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 15:57:11

The opinions I shared back then as a rookie to the concept of oil depletion haven't changed all that much. The situation we face has, however, become much more dire. In view of the increasing fragility of the world's economy and environment, and the worsening scarcity of resources, it's a miracle any people are still around. But the days of humanity are clearly numbered. If Gaia is lucky there'll still be plant life and a few air, sea and land creatures inhabiting the planet after we're through fouling the top layer. I'm afraid the result of our damage will be a massive extinction event by mid century.

Anyhow, my very first posting from nine years ago is right below the Derek57 quote:

Of course we will run out. When I say the peak-oil theory, I mean the idea that right after oil-peaks, we will quickly run out of oil, the fall will not be downhill but a cliff. Unless governments or companies, or both are acting irrational, and ignoring this possibility, then it should not be a collapse, but a gradual decline. Whether we find a replacement or not, the laws of capitalism provide that their will be time and incentive to at least try for one.

********************

Derek57,

First, I believe you wouldn't be on this site if the important issue of PO wasn't a serious concern to you, and not just an academic curiosity. The term was only brought to my attention within the past year or so and I consider myself a recent PO believer. I would bet the issues you raise here are similar to those raised by others who may visit this site, read the postings, and are exploring for themselves whether or not the entire PO issue is nonsense or truth. Not too long ago I too decided to explore this issue and I have become to believe PO is real.

I just scanned through your postings and have come to the conclusion you believe oil is indeed going to run out and that this will happen roughly along the same time-line as the it took to reach the peak, somewhere around 100 years. I bet most here will agree with you on that point. The only question you seem to have here is over the 'softness', or 'hardness' of the decline in oil production as it relates to social and economic change. A quick look at the strongest oil-dependant countries should help you decide how the landing will hit.

Well, it's going to be a very hard landing derek57. I believe this is a certainty for a few simple reasons. The earth's population will need to contract. Most agree on this point. The amount of contraction is debatable, of course, but there will be a significant decline. For example, farm machinery, land, air and sea shipping, food production and the entire food industry requires huge amounts of oil, oil that will no be readily avalable. There are many reasons the population will need to contract including soil depletion, pollution and scarcity of water resources (oil depletion isn't the only reason) and I've noticed they are explored on other threads in greater detail.

As demand begins to outstrip supply there will be an economic, political and military struggle for the remaining oil. No country will willingly allow its industries and economic might to be extinguished. China, for example, is investing hundreds of billions in ICE infrastructure. China now produces more motorcycles than any other country. They will rival the USA in auto production next decade, if the hard fall doesn't happen sooner. They have recently built costly modern freeways. The Guangzhou airport due to open in a few years will cost an enormous sum, with more take offs and landings anticipated than HK and its all oil based infrastructure. If you think China will voluntarily give all that up you are very, very mistaken. Not the USA, not Europeans, not Japan, in fact, there will be no country voluntarily stepping up and dismantling their industrial base and their ICE-based economies. There will be a struggle for the remaining oil. That much is certain. It will be fought in the markets, in bloody warfare or both, probably both.

As demand exceeds supply, and that will happen very soon, look out. The survivors will need a strong stomach because what they will see will not be a very pretty sight.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby efarmer » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 19:35:05

Pops, you still serve up such dandy threads you should consider being a fashion designer instead of a graphics designer. Peak Oil is so fascinating and dynamic for me over the years because being a sentient being several times at least from time to time involves the intense desire to know what other people think, how they approach challenges, and to chip at the areas where we differ to outwardly debate and also inwardly attempt to prove or disprove, our treasured stances and beliefs.

In the midst of this very old set of chaotic factors, we realize that we have become a huge
amount of people, and we have done this with exploiting a set of hydrocarbon minerals that
were stored from organic life on this planet over many millions of years and at a rate of consumption
that does not match our love for our children and cultures and plans in the scope of our own and our
circle of loved ones life times.

The temptation to make this an immediate, paralyzing, threat is of course immense. It is about the same size as the temptation to kick the can and blow it off and nonsense without application of our imaginations and considerations wherein we do some truly major advances in our civilization and cultures when we deal with real threats. Peak Oil is a very real threat, and it deserves the very best of our thinking and debate and action in a period where we get to be proactive instead of reactive as a set of human beings on a very nurturing planet to date.

Here is to us finding out how to sort out our gamut of emotion and nonsense and political, and faith and philosophical differences to address big challenges as they relate to the central pillar of energy for our present state of civilization.

Here is to PeakOil.com for being in the game for 10 years and still civil and a place open
for thought, and therefore, coping, hoping, and persisting.
Thank you for being a resource in my life.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 20:43:41

Here is my first post:

The style of transition from an oil-based economy to a post-oil
society will ultimately depend on policy decided within the US
government. Unfortunately, US policy is heavily influenced by big
business interests which want the status quo to remain, i.e. an
economy based on oil.

These are the observations that Paul Roberts makes in his
book "The end of oil, on the edge of a perilous new world".

If we want a change in US policy, we have to reach US voters. If
you know of any US congressman or senators who are friends with you,
please contact them and let them know your views!


My impression today is that the US government is still polarized and that policy is grid-locked and divided between desires of Democrats and the oil-supported GOP. This does not bode well for the future of the planet. During the intervening years, it's climate change that has come to the fore.

Noam Chomsky: We’re no longer a functioning democracy, we’re really a plutocracy

The world faces two potentially existential threats, according to the linguist and political philosopher Noam Chomsky.

“There are two major dark shadows that hover over everything, and they’re getting more and more serious,” Chomsky said. “The one is the continuing threat of nuclear war that has not ended. It’s very serious, and another is the crisis of ecological, environmental catastrophe, which is getting more and more serious.”


He told the hosts that the world was racing toward an environmental disaster with potentially lethal consequence, which the world’s most developed nations were doing nothing to prevent – and in fact were speeding up the process.

“If there ever is future historians, they’re going to look back at this period of history with some astonishment,” Chomsky said. “The danger, the threat, is evident to anyone who has eyes open and pays attention at all to the scientific literature, and there are attempts to retard it, there are also at the other end attempts to accelerate the disaster, and if you look who’s involved it’s pretty shocking.”


The reason for this is simple, Chomsky said.

“There is plenty of profit being made by those who pretty much dominate and control the system,” he said. “We’ve moved from the days where there was some kind of functioning democracy. It’s by now really a plutocracy.”


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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 21:17:48

Feb 7, 2005

It's difficult to be a social organism that has self awareness who realizes that the community and society that he belongs to and requires for his survival and spiritual well being is heading rapidly toward extinction.
I can't think of a greater existential crisis for any organism on this planet than what we humans have created for ourselves.

And yet it isn't too late to join together. How about building a new society? Not just a permaculture intentional community isolated in some valley but say a community of several thousand who come together, establishing a fully integrated society of farmers, doctors, craftsmen, etc. Creating a constitution based on a charter of sustainability and an economic system that is zero growth. The combined capital of several thousand people could equal the whole GDP of a small country. That's it. A new country. There are certainly enough souls out there who seem to be nearing the point where they are ready to jump ship on these last days of the Industrial Revolution and start something new? Isn't there?

Why wait for the survivors after the fall. How many of you would really abandon what you got today and be willing to join such a new society if presented the option. I think I would. And I think I would invest my capital and hard work into making this happen. But it's got to be bigger than just one isolated intentional community is some valley some where.
Any thoughts?


Almost 9 years later into this existential crisis. I didn't join any alternative society but I did end up on 400 acres of pristine cloud forest in Panama enjoying this magic spot on the planet and the intrepid guests who venture up this 4WD valley road.

Back then collapse did feel within the next 5-10 years...and looking for an alternative society to dodge the masses collapsing reads pretty naive today. I sure am glad a group didn't come together to call my bluff:)

Much more enjoyable than trying to escape the mainstream and dodge an overshoot bullet is watching and observing the inevitable unfold in a slower motion and seeing how we collectively respond.....or don't.
Patiently awaiting the pathogens. Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 21:29:41

I was a cornucopian in complete denial. I read, and wrote, and was dissed and called a troll. After time, I became a doomer. Now I would put myself somewhere in the middle between cornucopia and apocalypse. Here is my first post:


Import methane from Jupiter?

Postby Repent » 2004-08-21, 18:17:25
Limitless supplies of abiotic methane exist on other planets in our solar system- such as Jupiter or Saturn. By harvesting these energy resources from space we could have limitless energy on Earth.

Even with the tremendous time lags involved in exploiting this resource this is a solution that could work. If we ran continuous "tanker" ships to & from these planets there would always be some tankers arriving & some tankers departing Earth. These tankers could drop their frozen methane cargo into low Earth orbit & then we could extract the methane from the Earth's atmosphere at our leisure.

There is so much abiotic methane on Jupiter and Saturn we could exhaust the Earth's supply of free oxygen before we would run out of methane energy. With cable elevators and other new technologies (see August's edition of Scientific American) we could be on a path to achieve these goals.

I'm open to feedback!
Thanks!


See where we are at in another 10 years !
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Loki » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 21:32:29

10 years of PO.com. Excellent. Probably my favorite website (aside from Busty Asian Beauties), it's had a measurable impact on my life.

I was hoping for more general navel gazing when I saw the thread title, but if we're doing first posts, OK....This was apparently my first post on PO.com (5/10/06), I really don't remember it, probably because it wasn't particularly memorable. I have spent an inordinate amount of my time and effort on the food quandary the last few years, so I suppose it's appropriate.

The post I was responding to was about nuclear plant decommissioning.

Loki wrote:Don't know about the other plants, but Trojan hasn't produced power since 1992 due to safety concerns (poor design and construction). Decommissioning is basically complete--they're planning on demolishing the cooling tower in a couple weeks.

As for the original question, I'd say learning to eat locally and to store food is an appropriate lifestyle response to rising gas prices. The 100 Mile Diet is a good example.

appropriate-purchases-and-lifestyle-decisions-t19800-40.html
A garden will make your rations go further.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 21:43:07

"...divided between desires of Democrats and the oil-supported GOP." Always amazing to see efforts to pretend the democrats, as well as the current POTUS, are the enemies of the energy industry. Truly comical in the face of so many facts arguing just the opposite. Let's see: under the current POTUS and the Dem dominated congress the gov't has offered more offshore leases than the previous R POTUS and has approved more Deep Water drill permits. And all this after the worst environmental disaster in US history...the Macondo blow out. And during his administration recorded the highest US coal production in the history of the industry. The current POTUS has also overseen the greatest expansion of US coal exports. And his departments are currently working hard to expand our coal export facilities. And next month the southern leg of the Keystone XL pipeline, with it's 600,000 bopd capacity, will began delivery production directly from the Canadian oil sands fields to Texas refineries. The segment the POTUS publicly claimed was critical to the US economy and instructed all of his depths to do whatever they could to expedite it's completion. The pipeline will be coming on line slightly ahead of schedule.

From the US energy industry...thank you Mr. President. Looking forward to another prosperous year.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 22:09:11

Couldn't decide whether to post this here or in the Obama Global Warming Action Plan thread. But once I saw Rock's post, I decided to put it here. The thing is ROCK that the administration policy is changing although at times I also wonder whether it's (or O) has played the "all of the above" energy policy to the detriment of all. It simply has to change from supporting ff to not supporting ff, rather than supporting renewables as well. Policies are still polarized as this article demonstrates.

Climate change debate ready to heat up

Policies surrounding climate change are poised to heat up in 2014 as major aspects of President Obama's climate plan come to fruition.

The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce historic final standards aimed at curbing carbon emissions from the nation's power plants in June, but not before lawmakers and industry groups give their two cents on the issue.

Next year, Republicans are expected to continue the crusade against the administration's climate regulations, which they have dubbed the "war on coal."

Sen. David Vitter (R-La.), who sits on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee (EPW), and Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), chairman of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee, blasted the administration and EPA consistently throughout 2013 on the "faulty" science behind the new climate regulations and a "lack of transparency."

Vitter said in his year-end review of Obama's Climate Action Plan that Republicans on EPW will continue to push for oversight hearings on the administration's climate agenda in 2014.

Vitter touts on his website that his specific focus on energy issues includes "shedding light on EPA overregulation that is crushing jobs and preventing a strong economic recovery."

He will get his chance to assail federal officials when the environment committee holds climate change hearings. According to a congressional source, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), EPW chairwoman, wil announce the first hearing, on the president's climate agenda, for Jan. 16.

Also, expect noise from oil groups and environmentalists in 2014 as the State Department's final environmental impact statement on the proposed Keystone XL pipeline is due to be released in the coming weeks.

The debate surrounding Keystone XL can hurt Obama's climate agenda if he goes against his promise to reject the pipeline, and it is found to significantly contribute to carbon emissions.

As the U.S. attempts to lead other nations toward strong climate standards, the expansion of oil explorations in the Arctic will be a prime subject of debate in 2014.


thehill

You can be sure that the world will be viewing action on the climate front in the US with intense interest because US policies will affect us all.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 29 Dec 2013, 01:21:58

rwwff wrote:Postby rwwff » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:20 pm
I'd have to say FUEL as well. Travel seems more aligned with vacation or business trips as opposed to driving to the grocery store to grab a loaf of bread. One is tax deductible or reimbursable, the other is likely only a tiny fraction of total mileage.

That said, gasoline would need to be vastly more expensive before it would truly start to dominate the cost of driving. People like to grouse about the cost of gas, but traffic doesn't seem to be much dampened by the price. Even in my 20+mpg small truck, fuel cost is going to be less than 15 cents per mile, while the other costs are close to 30 cents per mile. I hardly see how it matters whether I write the check to Shell Oil, or Bob's Bank, Joe's Fixit, State Farm Insurance, and Texas DOT; those costs are every bit as real and the majority are mileage based. To put it in perspect, at today's costs, my truck costs about 45 cents a mile to drive; at $2 a gallon, its 40 cents a mile; and just to be obnoxious, at $5 a gallon, its still only 55 cents a mile. Hardly a budget shattering increase for Sam MiddleClass.

Even in the worst case, a good portion of the miles I drive, I could take my bicycle if gas cost was high enough to motivate me and provide a legitimate sounding excuse. I think that price point is somewhere around $10 a gallon, or 50 cents a mile for fuel.

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The post was on a poll by MonteQuest, whom I admit to hounding rather relentlessly, asking what folks would cut back on to compensate for higher energy prices, but he left off reducing the amount of fuel/energy used.

It is interesting though how not so expensive $3 gas put the squeeze on less necessary, and overall miles driven. Maybe there's hope at that $5 mark that people would actually appreciate how much power they wield when they drive themselves and 2000+ pounds of metal and plastic 20 miles in a few minutes. I'd have to say I got it half right, in that people did cut back on fuel, via driving fewer miles, but I didn't expect them to start to pay attention at $3.

nb... I still drive the same little truck, and it runs fine. Same house.... My daughter was just starting elementary school, and is now just a few months from high school. Some things stay so very much the same, but others... wow.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby careinke » Sun 29 Dec 2013, 03:04:57

OK, this was actually my ninth post, but I think it is more relevant than raising chickens or killing blackberries.

Re: When will we know?

Postby careinke » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:48 pm
I think most Americans will be aware of peak oil in the next two years. The peak (2005) will be acknowledged in 2009. By 2010 we will be in a major depression. By 2015 total economic collapse.

I hope I’m wrong and it takes longer. I will barely have my lifeboat in place by 2010.

BWTFDIK

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So..

1. Obviously most Americans are still not aware of Peak Oil or deny it. WRONG

2. I believe peak oil as defined back then (Conventional oil), was in 2005. However, it is not acknowledged. WRONG

3. In 2010 we were in a major depression, we just called it "The Great Recession." RIGHT

4. Economic Collapse in 2015? The jury is still out on that one, but the odds still seem good to me. Actually, I think it could be the best thing for the planet.

5. I'm still adding to my lifeboat and am feeling more confident in my ability to feed, shelter, protect, and cloth my extended family under most collapse situations.

On the other hand, my doom meter is pegged. I feel since my post seven years ago, we have accelerated the train from 60 MPH to 90 MPH. In the meantime, the wall is still there and getting closer, while our politicians get elected by promising to make the train go even faster.

BWTFDIK?

At least I have a nice view to watch.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby americandream » Sun 29 Dec 2013, 03:28:56

Oct 19, 2004

americandream wrote:Maybe a return to the sort of central planning they had in the Soviet Union and China (before these guys got an attack of Quarter-Pounders and Big Macs) may help to deal with the problems of resource allocation. May give us some time in which to devise strategies for the long term as we scale back consumption.

May be a little difficult to cope with as we have grown accustomed to our comforts, but I would hate to lose all we have achieved and would be prepared to make some sacrifices for the long term.


Cultural rebirth in other words or rejection of capitalism. And I still stand by that view.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby americandream » Sun 29 Dec 2013, 03:31:07

eastbay wrote:The opinions I shared back then as a rookie to the concept of oil depletion haven't changed all that much.


Haven't seen you in a while EB.
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Re: 10 Years of PeakOil.com

Unread postby sunweb » Sun 29 Dec 2013, 10:10:01

I came late to the site but not to the idea. Here is my first post:

The Curmudgeon Report
Postby sunweb » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:31 am
http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/02/cu ... eport.html
The Curmudgeon Report

Maybe, just maybe, a couple billion people have some awareness of climate change. Maybe, just maybe, 500 million to a billion people have some awareness of peak oil and fossil fuel depletion. Maybe 100 thousand really have knowledge of these and other defining issues. Maybe a thousand people are writing about these issues. It is all speculation and it doesn’t matter one iota.

We will do anything and everything to maintain our present personal level of energy use and the comfort it affords us. We will do anything and everything to the earth, to other people and even to ourselves to continue on this path. And if we don’t have the energy level we see others have, we will do anything and everything to the earth, to other people and even to ourselves to attain that level. The proof of this assertion is simple; we are doing it. . . . .
More -

However, I started over 4 decades ago. After finishing a degree in anthropology and having read psychology for years, while fishing on the causeway between Miami and Miami Beach in 1968, I looked at the skyline of Miami and knew (epiphany) that this way of living would not go on.
How? It wasn’t how we had evolved to live. Thirty years later I wrote:

If humanity is seen as a person who is 100 years old, the first 99 years of her life would have been spent as gatherer and hunter. She would have only one year to adapt to the changes in family structure, living arrangements, child rearing and all the other pressures and stresses that the shift to agriculture brought. This same 100 year old person would have five or six days to adapt to the enormous changes brought about by the industrial revolution. And less than a day to adapt to the mass of information made available by electronics.
Each adaptation moves us further away from the original social and physical environment of our emergence. Is it bad or wrong? This is not the criteria. There is no fault. Each accommodation comes from necessity and is the best we know at the time. At the leading edge of human history is an accumulation that expands and deepens the knowledge of our travels.
http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2010/05/su ... -dice.html[/color]

Then, came Limits to Growth so the human part became coupled with the resource limits. I headed for the "hills" ending up in Minnesota where I lived off the grid for 30 years.

After cancer treatment, we moved to a lake home owned by my partner. We have a 3kWh grid tie system, greenhouse and garden at the home. We bought 40 acres near us where we have developed an orchard, another greenhouse, a large root cellar and grow specialty potatoes along with other vegetables.

As I have noted often here, although I was a huge supporter of "renewables" in the 70s and have them now, I believe they are part of the fossil fuel supply system and not "renewable" or green or clean or sustainable. We will live at the energy level of the middle ages if we make it through but human stupidity (nuclear/war ) and human stupidity (climate change) and human arrogance/hubris. And just being a human animal. Good luck.

I have enjoyed these posts immensely.
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