[Pops]

Loki said in the other thread:
"I was hoping for more general navel gazing when I saw the thread title,"

Good. Here is a thread for introspection about the site.

For Members, how do you perceive the changes here over the years, the mechanics of the website, the virtual community, maybe the prevailing meme as you see it, or whatever nit you want to pick. (feel free to dis the Mods)

For PO.com volunteer staff (current, former, disaffected, enlightened, disenchanted or otherwise) as a Member talk about all of the above, plus tell about trying to make the place run.


Engage!

[Pops]

You can get some idea of how PO.com looked over time using the Wayback Machine
http://wayback.archive.org/web/20040325 ... akoil.com/
The site is database driven so not all pages come up but you can get a sense.

--
Growing up with parents who had seen how bad things can fall apart during the depression, I was a Prepper before prepping was cool. Growing up in the '60-'70s I was also pretty well indoctrinated into the "Limits" mentality. I'd wandered the web looking for a board to hang at where people talked about stuff like gardening for the sake of eating. There was a long list of "survivalist" boards out there and although they talked about "prepping" they mostly had a right wing bent and were concerned about many things that didn't interest me. Especially as I became more concerned about PO after 9/11, I found them so opposed to the very idea of resource depletion as to be irrelevant for the most part. There were static depletion sites: Die-Off, Wolf at the Door, LATOC, etc but the few message boards I found never reached any kind of critical mass until Admin started PO.com

Right away I tried to respond to every post made just to keep the thing rolling. I said in one of my first posts that I wasn't here to debate depletion but rather to discuss what to do about it. Of course that turned out to be incorrect, LOL.

Admin asked my to be admin but not knowing anything about websites I declined, saying that I'd be happy to Mod or whatever else needed doing. Aaron joined few weeks after me and being a web guru, he was perfect. He and Admin tried lots of stuff early on, from online messaging to video chat to a smart agent a la Siri who got hit on more than educated, LOL.

For my part, I initially had the idea that we were to be a type of clearing house for all things Peak and after a few months convinced Admin that we should have a Planning For The Future sub-forum to discuss concrete actions folks were taking. I wanted a PO Survival forum that was inclusive of folks on the right and left, in the country and the city; working a trap line or a 9-5; a co-op or an ETF. Admin was concerned that we not become a "survivalist" board and I promised we'd limit the punji-stick-laden-suburban-tank-trap threads. We've always kept the gun posts limited to one thread, eventually expanding it to the current members only, self-defense sub-forum. Not everyone liked that but I believe it has made us a little more accessible to the passing surfer.

Over the years, I and others (Ferretlover and Skyemore in particular) tried to corral planning topics into some type of organization. There were, and are, great tidbits of info buried in pages of +1's and ad homs and trite platitudes that I thought we were obliged to make available. That was what had brought me here after all, and after all the years, the question of what should I do next having recognized impending "limits"? I thought that building a knowledge base using the input from the membership - a PO Wiki - was our job.

But as it turns out, and to my disappointment, that isn't our role. We implemented a Wiki feature in fact but it was hardly touched, our membership focuses opinions for the most part and opinions aren't that amenable to wiki-fication. In fact our meager attempts at cataloging threads into usable indexes was all wasted effort as succeeding implementations of site software killed the links we'd painstakingly built. Turns out our role is talk - shock! we are a message board! We are social media after all (we came online about the same time as Facebook). Discussing news and expressing opinions in the context of depletion is what we're about. The explosion of info on the web regarding, say, chicken tractors makes our effort cataloging plans for such pretty redundant, the web is self organizing.

Speaking of organization, the back room here has been quite the learning experience for me. Basically mods come in 2 flavors; rules based authoritarians and anti-authoritarian free-speech types. A glance at our bloated Code of Conduct is witness to this, we've codified almost every eventuality, LOL. But it turns out, most folks who eventually are banned get that way because they are disruptive, usually by dragging threads off topic in disagreement with any- and everything posted.

We've had a good deal of heated discussion about that in the back; are we advocates of the PO theory or are we, as the sign says, a vehicle for "Exploring Hydrocarbon Depletion"? Are dissenters and cornies permitted to express their opinion and influence the discussion and even, heaven forbid, temper the Doom? Or are we a haven for pessimists to glower in peace? Lately we're pretty firmly in the free speech camp and the emphasis in moderation is on civility.

A low in the operation of the site - in my opinion - was the implementation of the No-Mod-Disrespect rule that came to a head when it was used to stifle dissent in open discussion. In fact, I was threatened with banning because I disagreed with a mod - in the back room. It has been repeatedly proved that the Iron Rule of Oligarchy lives even on a website. However, the current staff is very egalitarian, we've come to a good point I think.

Several point along the way were pretty rough. In addition to attempted ego-coups, one of our mods (a good personal friend of mine, BTW) became upset here and started another board and lots of our posters left. There have been periods where the site hardly functioned (Admin foots the bill for the server, troubleshoots the software and for several years collects the front page news all while trying to have a real life) and times when the spam was so thick we were deleting dozens of posts a day - or hour.

I would not be surprised in the least if Admin were conducting a psychology experiment, LOL! He is a great believer in open democracy BTW. As much as we try we can't get him to influence the operation of the site, to come to our rescue when we disagree amongst ourselves or impose any rules on us except those at the very beginning of the CoC and to say free speech should be our guide.


I'm sure I'll have more to say but the calves are hollerin'!

[vision-master]

I've already voiced my opinion and have been browbeat because of it.

[Newfie]

Pops,

My observation is that the folks who hang out on theses sites are here mostly because they want to have some kind of wrestling match. I guess that includes me, unfortunately.

We are cantankerous. We feed the trolls. We argue endlessly.

We are NOT very action driven.

But that is who is attracted to the sites. If you want the site to be something different you have to attract a different, but smaller crowd.

I vote for stronger moderation. Not a lot stronger, but ...well ...you know what I mean I think. Some voices are just too loud and drown out new comers. I think we loose some folks because of a few excessive personalities.

I very seldom complain to the Mods but one recent individual was obnoxious beyond the pale. Mods were, in my opinion, very slow to deal with an obvious issue. For my part, I was a day or two from giving up on PO. I wonder how many you have lost due to similar circumstances.

[Newfie]

P.S. Just want to add, this site is important to me as a way to stay connected and informed. Thanks!

[vision-master]

I vote for stronger moderation. Not a lot stronger, but ...well ...you know what I mean I think. Some voices are just too loud and drown out new comers. I think we loose some folks because of a few excessive personalities.

Yeah, dilute the forum so only like minded people who reinforce their own 'beliefs' can participate. Kind of like joining a church, no?

[Paulo1]

Thank you moderators, editors, admin, and other volunteers.

Your creation and efforts are appreciated and helpful.

I used to be a member years ago and had trouble navigating and posting so simply gave up and migrated to The Oil Drum. I have only returned when Rockman and a few others left TOD, and simply re-registered. It was the easiest thing to do, imho.

That was my complaint. I have found the site hard to navigate after TOD and have been frustrated. I have lost posts on submission and for a long time refused to re-write. The last year or so seems to be better. I have either stopped screwing up, glitches have been fixed, or a little of both have occured.

What I do appreciate is the civility. I believe this is because of the moderators. I confess to have chain-pulled in the past when I have really disagreed with postings that assume all readers think the same, and that what for them is so obvious to agree with it should be self-evident. However, their replies were low in snark and sarcasm and for the most part it is pretty safe to disagree. When I compare this site to something like Zero Hedge, and compare the comments, I see two different pictures. At ZH I imagine a group of mostly middle-aged right wing males who have a paste function for certain words to spew from their 'smart phones'; clever little put downs with words like 'bitchez', 'scum', with most too profane to record. It reminds me of a jock snapping locker room, a place I left 40 years ago when I played rugby. At PO.com I envision people from all over the world sitting down at their desk or kitchen table, carefully crafting out a reply or technical explanation, and respectfully addressing the ideas and/or theme of whatever topic is on stage. This group is represented by both sexes, and reflects many age groups. Of course there are always the industry folks writing on the fly, from work and their busy lives.

I check this site a few times per day and read most articles, but mainly concentrate on resource depletion and energy topics. Some of the topics seem to be a little political, and I think this distracts from the topics most readers reply to. I faithfully check resilience.org, but find myself asking "where is the beef"? I feel that many of their topics are covered in Mother Earth News (yes, I subscribe), or out-of-touch university course readings. I have discovered that a good article in Resilience will be re-posted here on PO, as well as links to JHK and Greer, etc.

If TOD were to renew and begin again, I think I would go home to it. But for now PO.com has been a welcoming refuge. Thanks again.

regards....Paulo

[dinopello]

We are NOT very action driven.

But that is who is attracted to the sites. If you want the site to be something different you have to attract a different, but smaller crowd.

I vote for stronger moderation. Not a lot stronger, but ...well ...you know what I mean I think. Some voices are just too loud and drown out new comers. I think we loose some folks because of a few excessive personalities.

I semi-agree about the action thing. There do seem to be many on this forum who have taken personal actions for their self and family and some good discussion of it. Very little in the way of organized collective action or discussion of same. But that is also just reflective of the population as a whole. Collective consensus and action is extremely hard and requires enormous patience and perseverance.

As far as the moderation, I think it has been about right. I would lean more toward the let 'em play realm, because in the real world at community meetings and wherever consensus is sought, you have to deal with the same kind of thing. People with extreme positions, agendas (hidden and open), off-topic thoughts, etc. I might have thought that discussion in person would involve a fair amount of self-moderation, but that is really not always the case.

PO.com and one other professional forum on urban design are also my two main online, non work-related social outlets. I'm trying not to get sucked into facebook so that is important to me.

[Loki]

I would not be surprised in the least if Admin were conducting a psychology experiment, LOL! He is a great believer in open democracy BTW. As much as we try we can't get him to influence the operation of the site, to come to our rescue when we disagree amongst ourselves or impose any rules on us except those at the very beginning of the CoC and to say free speech should be our guide.

Admin is the most mysterious man in the peak oil world. Are you sure he's not just a supercomputer? Or Matt Savinar?

Thanks to him, and you Pops, Ferretlover, Tanada, Aaron, and all the other folks who have kept this site up and running over the years.

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . something changed. I tried to came over from the Oil Drum and found logging in and posting a hassel and gave it a miss.

Then, when the Oil Drum closed I tried again and it all seemed much easier. Site still needs the odd double click and such like and I only visit the active topics page but it is quite workable at this stage.

Cheers.

[KingM]

Seems that not much has changed. The doomers still preach doom, and the cornucopians still expect the party to last forever. It has become clear to me that change, if it happens, will be gradual enough that we'll only notice it over the scope of decades, if not longer.

[vision-master]

Seems that not much has changed. The doomers still preach doom, and the cornucopians still expect the party to last forever. It has become clear to me that change, if it happens, will be gradual enough that we'll only notice it over the scope of decades, if not longer.

Exactly, TPTB know what's going on, there will be no doom from 'oil shortages' and the cornucopians need to understand, change is in the air.