[phaster]

Just wonder, after learning more about peak oil did ya change your diet?

in other words looking at how much water, oil, etc., was required to produce a pound of beef or chicken, did ya decide to eat more of plant based diet.

after looking at what inputs are required to produce a pound of beef or chicken, my own thoughts have been to eliminate beef and chicken because it seem inefficient use of natural resources and found animals raised for food in industrial settings were going to make me unhealthy if i consumed them

[careinke]

Just wonder, after learning more about peak oil did ya change your diet?

in other words looking at how much water, oil, etc., was required to produce a pound of beef or chicken, did ya decide to eat more of plant based diet.

after looking at what inputs are required to produce a pound of beef or chicken, my own thoughts have been to eliminate beef and chicken because it seem inefficient use of natural resources and found animals raised for food in industrial settings were going to make me unhealthy if i consumed them

.

Not at all. My animals are an integral part of the homestead, and provide many more benefits in addition to meat.

[Tanada]

I spent many years eating a "healthy" grain based vegetable rich diet promoted by the USDA and Vegetarian movement and even spent a few months in my youth eating ovo-lacto vegetarian. The older I get the harder that diet was on my health. Last January Pstarr introduced me to the books of Gary Taubes and since then I threw out all that bad advice on "healthy" grains and I am healthier now than I was 10 years ago. I still have a long way to go to reach my goals, but my health is moving in the right direction because now I eat Primal plus dairy most of the time. I highly recommend everyone give it a try and see if it works for them. If it doesn't work for you try something else, but if it does you will be healthier and happier than you have been in a long time.

[Pops]

Most of the plants at the local walmart are flown in from Peru. Had some nice zuks last night in a stir fry, it was 8 degrees outside. Not really all that environmentally friendly or energy conserving.

But I'm being flip again. LOL. A couple of comments.

Beef spend most of their lives on pasture that is unsuitable for other crop production, they return most nutrients back to the soil (except for volatile N) and they can actually improve the soil if managed correctly. Granted, there is lots wrong with grain finishing but that is a recent development and will go away if the economy hits the skids.

You can buy grass fed or get together with some other folks and buy a big calf at auction and send him straight to the butcher before he makes it to the feedlot. That idea just popped into my little brain but it could be a good deal. Baby beef - around 800-1,000# is naturally tender even though it has less fat in the muscle (marbling) and grass finishing make it taste a little like beef rather than chicken. LOL

Poultry and pork are 100% grain dependent, that's why the expression "A chicken in every pot" (on Sunday) carried such weight back in the day. Retail chicken was a luxury before irrigated and fertilized grain. They do convert grain to muscle more effectively than cattle but on the commercial scale they require grain. Dairy almost as much though grass fed is really being pushed here in Missouri.

Without a doubt, the biggest problem in confinement ag is antibiotic use. And there really isn't a substitute, he more artificial the environment and the more concentrated the population the greater the need for antibiotics. Antibiotics as prophylactics should be discouraged and as growth stimulant they should be banned. And I say that as someone who raises dairy calves.

[phaster]

Most of the plants at the local walmart are flown in from Peru. Had some nice zuks last night in a stir fry, it was 8 degrees outside. Not really all that environmentally friendly or energy conserving.

Without a doubt, the biggest problem in confinement ag is antibiotic use. And there really isn't a substitute, he more artificial the environment and the more concentrated the population the greater the need for antibiotics. Antibiotics as prophylactics should be discouraged and as growth stimulant they should be banned. And I say that as someone who raises dairy calves.

yup the those are the two big issues I identified, and given the ever growing global population and ever increasing demand for fresh fruits/veggies and animal protein, its an unsustainable cycle that might not end well.

[Pops]

That pic is exactly how all dairy calves are raised nowadays. Except for the straw, straw is the best breeding ground for flies and bacterial, the best material is 2"+ drain rock. I hate looking at it because it looks so uncomfortable but at least they don't die.

I tried all sorts of other arrangements but the hutches are by far the best, primarily because if one calf gets sick it is easily spotted and treated right away and somewhat isolated from the rest. Poop reading is a learned talent but I can now tell the difference between E. Coli and Cripto and Coccidia, nutritional scours vs BRVD and BVD.

The hutches you linked aren't like veal crates that restrict movement in order to keep the meat nice and white. They look like this:



The ones I built are about 4'x4' plus the "yard" that's 4x6. Usually we keep them in the hutches until about 3 weeks of age when they have passed the critical stage then we can bunch them up in a big shed in groups of 5 for another 3-4 weeks until weaned then another 4 weeks in an even bigger group on grain and good hay by which time their rumen is somewhat developed and they can eat some grass.

That's just the way it is, you can't leave them with mom out eating daisies if you want cheese on that $1 hamburger and cream in yer Laté. The best you can do is try to keep them alive and not be mean to 'em.

But I'll be honest, it does get to be tiresome and a little bad feeling to have to be so unnatural - a lot like the attempt at raising melons a couple of years ago when the cuk beetles were so bad - cuke beetles are the adult of corn rootworm and I've read recently that the Bt trait is becoming ineffective ("Bt trait" means a gene splice that causes the corn plant to produce a poison to various worms and larva).

The better plan may be to get a large buffer between modern ag and any attempt to replace it. . . .

[Pops]

Sorry, to me, real veal calves are fed milk replacer and raised in crates (like I pictured) to keep them from moving around and developing connective tissue, they're slaughtered at maybe 20 or so weeks.

I raise dairy calves in an arrangement like you posted for the first few weeks, I can't find any pics of mine right off the bat. We raise bull calves and pasture them until they are maybe 500-700 lbs. We sell them at auction or to a couple of guys who have grass. They stay on grass for a couple hundred more pounds before they go straight to the processor more than likey. Lately we've sold a few to a neighbor who sells at the farmers' market

Dairy beef is much more lean than beef breeds so in the modern world, Americans get the good cuts, Asians get the poor cuts (that used to go to burger) and all the fat left over from the beef breeds gets mixed with the lean dairy beef and made into burger.

We've raised some heifers too but you gottata do a whole bunch to make out.