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Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 19:32:52

The Obama administration announced a coordinated set of programs designed to facilitate shipping through the Arctic Ocean as the sea ice melts

US to facilitate shipping through Arctic Ocean

As Arctic OCean sea ice melts, more and more shipping companies are eyeing the Northwest Passage as a possible route for shipping between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. The White House just announced the US will support increased shipping in the Arctic Ocean by developing new charts, doing more weather monitoring and weather prediction, providing more coast guard support, launching a new satellite to focus on this area, etc. etc.

Hmmmm.......it was just 6 years ago Obama promised that his election would be "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal." Now US policy seems be to help oil tankers avoid the last bits of the sea ice as they steam through the ice-free Arctic Ocean on their way to export US fracked oil to foreign buyers. :roll:
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby rollin » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 19:58:47

I wonder what the Canadians think about this.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 21:11:05

Rollin - Speaking of which I just heard yesterday from the head of the Canadian Coast Guard. According to him the control of the NW Passage was solely that of the Canadian gov't. And that may include tolls collected by the Canadians. But I'm sure if President Obama wants to spend some of our tax $'s to help those shippers the Canadians are OK with it.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 21:14:01

Yeah, I was wondering exactly where O was thinking of building ports.

P.S. stumbled across an interesting site about the area.

http://www.spirasolaris.ca/sbb4g1bv.html
Last edited by Newfie on Fri 31 Jan 2014, 21:21:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 21:17:21

ROCKMAN wrote:Rollin - Speaking of which I just heard yesterday from the head of the Canadian Coast Guard. According to him the control of the NW Passage was solely that of the Canadian gov't.


Yes, the position of the Canadian Government is that the North West Passage is Canadian territory and anyone planning to travel through it needs Canadian permission. The position of the US government is that the NW passage is an international waterway.

When the first oil tanker sailed through the NW passage, the USS Manhattan carrying a symbolic 1 barrel of oil, I believe it was accompanied by both an American and Canadian ice breaker.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 21:26:26

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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 09:22:05

It certainly took them long enough, Russia, Canada, EU and even the Chinese have been sending cargo and ice breaker ships through since 2010 in increasing numbers every year. I know the USCG has been planning stuff in the back ground because the Admiral in charge has expressed his worries, the USA has gotten visits in North Alaska and there was no capability for the USCG to respond in the event of an emergency because they did not have a base or facilities like rescue helicopters and search ships.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 09:27:19

From Wiki.

Tanda, basically I don't see anything there saying they are going to actually DO something. What I read is that they are going to encourage private enterprise. But maybe that's just my skeptical self.

Ditto Canada. They are decommissioning ships and their SAR resources, not expanding.

But, maybe, they think the ice will get so rare they won't need breakers or special resources?

US icebreakers - 10,000 tons

Polar-class icebreakers USCGC Polar Star (WAGB-10), USCGC Polar Sea (WAGB-11) are heavy icebreakers operated by the United States Coast Guard (USCG). These cutters, specifically designed for open-water icebreaking, have reinforced hulls, special icebreaking bows, and a system that allows rapid shifting of ballast to increase the effectiveness of their icebreaking. The vessels conduct Arctic and Antarctic research and are the primary icebreakers that clear the channel into McMurdo Station for supply ships. All are homeported out of Seattle, Washington.
In addition to the two Polar-class icebreakers, the USCG has a third polar-capable icebreaker, USCGC Healy (WAGB-20).[4]
Both the Polar Star and Polar Sea are near the end of their effective lifetimes, and have spent years moored because they were in need of expensive and unbudgeted upgrades.[5][6][7] In November 2013 four Senators proposed an amendment to the 2014 Defense Appropriations Act authorizing the construction of four new Polar class vessels, at a cost of $850 million each.[8][9][10] The four Senators sponsoring the amendment were Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray, from Washington, and Mark Begich and Lisa Murkowski, from Alaska. According to the Seattle Times the chances that the amendment will survive into the bill, as passed, are slim.


Russian ice breakers - 23,000 tons

In May 2007, sea trials were completed for the nuclear-powered Russian ice-breaker NS 50 Let Pobedy. The vessel was put into service by Murmansk Shipping Company, which manages all eight Russian state-owned nuclear icebreakers. The keel was originally laid in 1989 by Baltic Works of Leningrad (now St Petersburg), and the ship was launched in 1993 as the NS Ural. This icebreaker was intended to be the sixth and last of the Arktika class, and currently is the world's largest icebreaker.[12]


Canada, I've seen this ship in St. Johns. 13,500 tons

Canada's most powerful icebreaker, the 120 meters Louis S. St. Laurent of 13 500 tons displacement (dwt), was delivered in 1969. Its original 3 steam turbine/9 generator/ 3 electric motor system developed 27,000*shaft horsepower. A multi-year mid-life refit project (1987-1993) saw the ship get a new bow, and a new propulsion system. The new power plant consist of 5 diesels/ 3 generators/ 3 electric motors giving about the same SHP. On 22 August 1994 CCGS Louis S. St-Laurent and USCGC Polar Sea became the first North American surface vessels to reach the North Pole. The vessel was originally scheduled to be decommissioned in 2000 however a refit extended the decommissioning date to 2017.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 10:09:08

We have been batting this around on the arctic shipping thread since fall 2010 topic60022.html so to me even getting them to talk about it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully someone noticed other countries making a lot of money by taking the Arctic route so they will get motivated to actually do something now that they noticed it.

Unfortunately the USA government seems to have two modes of operation, pay no attention to a situation, or over react and throw a lot of money/resources at a situation.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 10:24:16

Yes, to all the above, except....

I get the feeling that when they are talking, we are screwed.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 20:06:31

yellowcanoe wrote:Yes, the position of the Canadian Government is that the North West Passage is Canadian territory and anyone planning to travel through it needs Canadian permission. The position of the US government is that the NW passage is an international waterway.


Canadians are going to have to deal with Russians in the arctic, in the future. That's going to be interesting.

As for claiming the northwest passage.. how can they do that, beyond regular extension of national boundaries out to sea? You can't just claim the whole arctic.

If they want to claim it, they're going to need Uncle Sam for muscle. Canada can't hold onto that by itself.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 20:08:53

Plantagenet wrote:Hmmmm.......it was just 6 years ago Obama promised that his election would be "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal." Now US policy seems be to help oil tankers avoid the last bits of the sea ice as they steam through the ice-free Arctic Ocean on their way to export US fracked oil to foreign buyers. :roll:


It is.. incredibly ironic. All the climate change stuff on the one hand with the administration, then on the other hand we're ramping up to develop the arctic if the ice would just melt already:

WASHINGTON, Jan 30 (Reuters) - As Arctic ice melts away, opening the way for greater oil development and mining, the White House outlined a plan on Thursday to promote safety and security in the region by building ports, improving forecasts of sea ice, and developing shipping rules. With warmer temperatures leaving Arctic sea passages open for longer periods of the year, billions of barrels of oil could be tapped beyond what is already being produced in the region. A loss of seasonal ice could also allow greater exploitation of precious minerals considered abundant in the Arctic.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 20:24:45

Sixstrings wrote:
yellowcanoe wrote:Yes, the position of the Canadian Government is that the North West Passage is Canadian territory and anyone planning to travel through it needs Canadian permission. The position of the US government is that the NW passage is an international waterway.


Canadians are going to have to deal with Russians in the arctic, in the future. That's going to be interesting.

As for claiming the northwest passage.. how can they do that, beyond regular extension of national boundaries out to sea? You can't just claim the whole arctic.

If they want to claim it, they're going to need Uncle Sam for muscle. Canada can't hold onto that by itself.


The routes through the NW passage are pretty intricate, they pass through narrow channels in Canadian held territory.

Here is a simple map, there are other routes, but you will get the idea.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 01 Feb 2014, 21:15:50

Newfie wrote:The routes through the NW passage are pretty intricate, they pass through narrow channels in Canadian held territory.


The US doesn't recognize Canadian control over those seaways. Just as US and other ships pass through the Canadian Islands on the west coast of Canada en route to Alaska, the US holds that international shipping can freely pass through the northern islands to transit the Arctic Ocean.

For a couple of hundred years the US and most other seafaring nations have held that seaways are open to all ships, even those that transit narrow channels between islands of a given country. This principle has been mostly accepted since the British Navy shelled the Danish Kroneberg Castle at Helsingor and forced their way into the Baltic Sea without paying the tax demanded by the Danes.

Today this principle is part of the UN "Law of the Sea" convention

United States "Freedom of Navigation" Program (from Wikipedia)

The United States' Freedom of Navigation program challenges territorial claims on the world's oceans and airspace that are considered excessive by the United States, using diplomatic protests and/or by challenge. The United States position is to insist that all nations must obey the international law of the sea as stated by the UN Law of the Sea Convention, although the United States has not formally ratified the treaty.[8] Some coastal states make claims that the United States see as inconsistent with international law, which, if unchallenged, would limit navigational freedoms of the vessels and aircraft of the U.S. and other countries.[citation needed]
On several occasions, U.S. armed forces have conducted operations in areas claimed by other countries, such as naval operations in the Gulf of Sidra in the 1980s. Throughout the years U.S. forces have been performing "Freedom of Navigation" operations in the Straits of Gibraltar, Strait of Hormuz, Straits of Malacca, the Indonesian Archipelago, the Black Sea, and occasionally the Canadian Arctic.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 02 Feb 2014, 06:30:10

I wasn't aware of this, apparently Canada wants to claim not just a northwest passage but the whole thing and the North Pole itself:

Cold wars: why Canada wants to claim the North Pole

On Friday, the Canadian government was expected to submit an application to the UN Commission tasked with evaluating which countries can claim exclusive rights to resources — namely oil and gas — found in waterways far beyond their borders. Instead, however, the country made a surprising pivot: at the insistence of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, they submitted a partial application rather than a full one. That's because, according to The Globe and Mail, Harper wants government scientists to seek additional data that would support a more expansive claim — one that includes the North Pole.

The 18-million-square-mile region, though largely unexplored, is thought to contain around one-third of the world's oil reserves — all of them thus far untapped.

Canada appears to be pushing ahead — and doing so with uncharacteristic aggression. Harper's decision to scrap the proposal assembled by government-funded scientists and push for a bigger chunk of the Arctic wasn't exactly the diplomatic approach some experts were hoping for — and could catalyze discord with Russia and Denmark,

"The North Pole has extreme emotional value; people have an image that's essentially of Santa's workshop," Byers says. "So there's a huge domestic political angle to this, the idea of claiming the North Pole for your country."
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/9/5191740/canada-russia-fight-over-north-pole-arctic


Russia to boost military presence in Arctic as Canada plots north pole claim
Vladimir Putin tells defence chiefs to build up infrastructure in region that he says is key to Russia's strategic interests

The political temperature in the Arctic rose on Tuesday when Vladimir Putin vowed to step up Russia's military presence in the region in response to a claim by Canada to the north pole.

In typically trenchant style, the Russian president told his defence chiefs to concentrate on building up infrastructure and military units in the Arctic.

His comments were a direct and rapid riposte to Canada, a rival Arctic power. On Monday Canada's foreign minister, John Baird, said his government had asked scientists to work on a submission to the UN arguing that the outer limits of Canada's territory include the north pole, which has yet to be claimed by any country.

"It's often said that the Russians act with their Arctic policy in an aggressive, nationalistic and unilateral way. The same thing can be said about the Canadians," said Andrew Foxall, director of the Russian Studies Centre at the Henry Jackson Society. "Harper has said Canada is an Arctic nation. He frequently goes up into Canada's high Arctic. There are large-scale military exercises there."

Image
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/9/5191740/canada-russia-fight-over-north-pole-arctic


Also, whatever happened to Canada being a leader on climate change and environmentalism?

That seems to have been out the window now ever since the tar sands, and dreams of climate change melted ice and northwest passages and arctic exploitation. Canada can't ever take climate change seriously now, that would be two incompatible national goals, with them now heavily invested in the arctic melting.

I would certainly agree that if the ice melts, well, may as well not let it go to waste. Just kind of ironic. The worse climate change gets, the more oil is revealed and we have access to. And a Northwest Passage to boot.

Will Russia or Canada care about climate change? If they have bumper crops one day, in warmer climates, and all that oil too? I guess money talks, polar bears and rainbows can take a walk.

If even Canada can't care about climate change, previously one of the most progressive and conscientious nations in the world, the country now adding rocket fuel to the problem with the tar sands and dreams of a Canadian industrial north pole -- then you can't ever expect the developing world to cut back. China, Brazil, all the others.

What Canada is doing about climate change:

Image
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That's cute how it still gets blamed on the US, "to feed America's oil addiction." That's not even true. We won't be using tar sands oil -- Canada is looking to export tar sands to the whole world, Latin America first then China one day. Whereas in the US we're at least talking about finally moving to natural gas vehicles and we're going toward EVs and doing a lot of things.

WE would never tear up Alaska like this. Our environmentalists have protected ANWAR. These tar sands look so horrible -- how can the environment ever recover? And it's got to be toxic to the people living up there. How can anyone say this doesn't get into the soil and ground water? These tar sands look like moonscapes.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby clif » Tue 04 Feb 2014, 02:27:38

Also, whatever happened to Canada being a leader on climate change and environmentalism?


Stephen Harper.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 04 Feb 2014, 02:32:56

clif wrote:
Also, whatever happened to Canada being a leader on climate change and environmentalism?


Stephen Harper.


So a majority of Canadians didn't elect Stephen Harper and his government? Gosh...I thought Canada was a democracy. :razz:
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 04 Feb 2014, 09:24:14

P - It just occurred to me that President Obama might deserve some of the credit for opening the NWP. I mean consider his support for expanding the importation of Canadian oil sands production, tax incentives making the shales more attractive, the development of offshore oil/NG and the expansion of coal exports from federal leases making the US the fourth largest producer on the planet.

Given then important role of GHG melting that sea ice we should give credit where credit is due, eh?
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 04 Feb 2014, 12:43:35

clif wrote:
Also, whatever happened to Canada being a leader on climate change and environmentalism?


Stephen Harper.


Exactly, you beat me to it.
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Re: Obama administration opens Arctic Ocean shipping

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 04 Feb 2014, 12:58:53

clif wrote:
Also, whatever happened to Canada being a leader on climate change and environmentalism?


Stephen Harper.


Harper is a good target but he isn't the only one to blame. While the previous Liberal government did sign the Kyoto agreement, my impression was that they weren't really doing much to reduce carbon emissions. The population and CO2 emissions continued to grow.
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