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THE Greece Thread Pt 2 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

THE Greek Riot Thread (merged)

Unread postby seahorse » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 00:48:14

Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Europe
People are just pissed I guess, bc the contagion from the Greek riots is spreading across Europe. Thank god for the Atlantic. I would hate for that bullshit to get over here. Too bad people don't have the right to bear arms over there.
Suspected anarchist protests which have dogged Greece for the last week spread outside the country today, with mobs causing violent scenes in Italy, Spain, Russia, Denmark and Turkey.

Greek diplomatic missions were vandalised in the attacks, while police, local authority and media representatives were also targeted in what appeared a co-ordinated escalation.

The upsurge took place as protests continued in Greece following the killing last Saturday of Alexandros Grigoropoulos.

Today, mobs pelted 20 police stations with rocks and bottles, overturned cars and blocked streets in central Athens. Police responded with tear gas as sporadic violence persisted amid Greece’s worst rioting in decades.

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Greek riots
Four people were detained and at least one man was hospitalised with injuries, authorities said. In a gesture which appeared designed to ease the violence, MPs held a minute of silence for Mr Grigoropoulos.

Yet what were originally relatively localised protests over the killing have since been hijacked by mobs of self-styled anarchists who authorities say are looking for trouble, and today they spread out of Greece for the first time.

In Denmark, a total of 32 people were arrested in Copenhagen after protests turned violent while, in Madrid and Barcelona, several police officers were injured and 11 people were arrested following clashes.

The violence also spread to Turkey, where a dozen protesters were reported to have painted the Turkish-flag red on the Greek consulate. In Moscow and Rome, meanwhile, petrol bombs were reported to have been aimed at Greek Embassies.

Meanwhile, a crew of television journalists from Russia were attacked by 50 youths as they filmed clashes in Exarchia, Greece, a known hotbed of student radicalism. One correspondent from the NTV television station was injured.

So far, hundreds of stores throughout Greece have been damaged or destroyed as gangs of masked youths and self-styled anarchists smashed windows with metal bars, looted stores and set up flaming street barricades in cities.

Greece’s conservative government has come under intense criticism for its handling of the crisis, despite authorities’ insistence that they avoided heavy handed policing to prevent bloodshed.

Costas Karamanlis, the Greek Prime Minister, whose government has a single-seat majority in parliament, has ignored growing opposition calls for early elections. However, he has promised shopkeepers affected by riots handouts of 10,000 Euros to cover short-term needs.

An opinion poll published yesterday showed that 68 per cent of Greeks disapproved of the government’s handling of the crisis, however. Even before the riots, the government was already facing public discontent over the state of the economy, the poor job prospects for students and a series of financial scandals.

"We demand accountability, that this government resigns, and that this farce comes to an end," Spyros Potamias, a 28-year-old architecture student said as he demonstrated at a polytechnic in Athens.

Store owners and most of the public expressed anger, however, that the police had not been firmer with the rioters as they embarked upon what appeared to be a rampage of destruction.

"I can accept anger, I cannot accept looting," said Michael Lavdiotis, manager of a looted Athens coffee shop, where food and even furniture was stolen. "They took everything ... we’re very frustrated. We didn’t deserve this behaviour."

Greece’s influential Orthodox Church has joined authorities in appealing for calm, as more student protests are believed to be planned for tomorrow.

"This tragedy cannot be resolved by burning and destroying the property of people who themselves have problems," said Church leader Archbishop Ieronymos.

Times Online
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 00:57:09

I'm rather shocked that Americans aren't rioting in the street. They are being totally fleeced to the tune of trillions of dollars--and that's just the stuff gettin reported. And Bush and co. are spending their last days shafting the public every way they can.

Are we too stupid to see when we are being buggered to death by these A holes?

Not that riots do much good. But I really wonder, where the rage is.

(Besides the occasional rant on this and other forums.)
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby seahorse » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 01:01:18

Yes, in the South, we call what is happening to Americans "cow tumping" which is the act of sneaking out into a cow pasture and pushing a cow over in its sleep.

Notice how the streets of Detroit are quiet even though the Senate tumped their sacred bailout cow over tonight? The bankers have nothing to worry about.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Eli » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 01:03:57

What set these Greek riots of is that they had universal health care and then the GOv. had to yank it and all the health care benefits because they are broke.

The Greeks gov. is debt [b}WORSE[/b] than the US. They cannot print money however because they do not have that power under the EU.


We are headed there.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 01:12:42

So since we in the good ol' US of A have the great advantage of never having had universal health coverage in the first place, we won't miss it!

We're used to dying out in the street of easily treatable diseases, so fortunately the economic sink hole won't phase us. ;-)


What will be the point when people crack en mass and start to riot? Massive joblessness? Food shortages? Gas shorages?...
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby gandolf » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 02:58:27

Must be the month for shooting 15 year old boys.

The cops in Australia just wasted one today as well

Luckily Australians are far to lazy to riot

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=695956
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby paimei01 » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 07:05:32

Look back and tell me one freedom you enjoy today that was not won trough fighting and revolution.

Even the 8 hour work day, for that you have to thank the communists of 1917 , no matter how "capitalist" you are.

The oligarchs and their servants - the lawmakers would have never agreed on an 8 hour work day just out of "good will"
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Javaman » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 07:25:14

dohboi wrote:So since we in the good ol' US of A have the great advantage of never having had universal health coverage in the first place, we won't miss it!

We're used to dying out in the street of easily treatable diseases, so fortunately the economic sink hole won't phase us. ;-)


What will be the point when people crack en mass and start to riot? Massive joblessness? Food shortages? Gas shorages?...


Then we can conclude that having private health insurance is preferable to universal healthcare. Easily treatable diseases might not be that expensive to treat, so out-of-pocket payments should be sufficient. People will just have to cut back on cigarettes, booze, fast food, and other such necessities to pay for medical treatment.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 09:38:07

dohboi wrote:
I'm rather shocked that Americans aren't rioting in the street. They are being totally fleeced to the tune of trillions of dollars--and that's just the stuff gettin reported. And Bush and co. are spending their last days shafting the public every way they can.


The sad fact is that the average American citizen-consumer simply doesn't understand the big issues enough to even know they're being fleeced.

Also, we live in a culture that doesn't encourage rocking the boat. In this country, you're in real trouble when you lose a job. It means you and your children have NO healthcare. We have a paltry social safety net, so folks who "play along" have an advantage over those who "rock the boat."

So I submit to you, if an American can not risk standing up to an employer, what makes you think they could stand up to government?

So there's your answer. A Brit or a Francaise has the security of knowing his basic needs -- healthcare, social safety net -- cannot be denied as retaliation for protest. If an American speaks up, he can lose everything.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 09:45:25

seahorse wrote:People are just pissed I guess, bc the contagion from the Greek riots is spreading across Europe. Thank god for the Atlantic. I would hate for that bullshit to get over here. Too bad people don't have the right to bear arms over there.


Oh, yeah... nothing beats riots but riots with ARMS, yeah. Why not Whack-A-Mole with land mines while you're at it.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 09:47:33

seahorse wrote:Too bad people don't have the right to bear arms over there.


What's your logic?
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 09:49:39

Sixstrings wrote:So I submit to you, if an American can not risk standing up to an employer, what makes you think they could stand up to government?


If you consider what's happening in Greece "standing up to the government", then I'm glad we americans won't do that. I have no desire to see mindless vandalism.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 09:52:47

gandolf wrote:Luckily Australians are far to lazy to riot


That's 'cause you live on the World's Biggest Beach™. What have you got to riot about? If our entire civilization collapses, you're already living in a country where for 95% of its history, people did just fine living buck naked in the great outdoors. Most people in the Western world are going to freeze to death. So make party, not riot, Sheila. Or Bruce. :P
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 09:58:35

mos6507 wrote:
seahorse wrote:Too bad people don't have the right to bear arms over there.


What's your logic?


God, it's about guns. Where does logic come into it?

"This is great ice cream!" "Yes, if only my GUN were here!"

"Did you see Letterman last night?" "Yes, isn't it sad he wasn't armed?" "Well, it's that Paul Schaffer, you know..."

"Did you hear the Senate has nixed the automotive bailout?" "They were right to; not a single word about the right to bear arms in the whole proposal. When will we see a sub-compact with machine guns?" "Too right!!"

Too "right" indeed. :cry:
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:00:47

mos6507 wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:So I submit to you, if an American can not risk standing up to an employer, what makes you think they could stand up to government?


If you consider what's happening in Greece "standing up to the government", then I'm glad we americans won't do that. I have no desire to see mindless vandalism.


Sorry, but to whom did you cede Watts and Los Angeles? I hadn't heard. :-D
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:05:25

Eli wrote:The Greeks gov. is debt [b}WORSE[/b] than the US. They cannot print money however because they do not have that power under the EU.

We are headed there.


What, to the EU, where you won't be able to inflate the currency willy-nilly? Not a bad idea, but they probably won't let you in. :)
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby ararboin » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:07:18

"Yes, in the South, we call what is happening to Americans "cow tumping" which is the act of sneaking out into a cow pasture and pushing a cow over in its sleep."

Have you, yourself, ever tried to do this on a real live cow? This is one of the dumber urban myths to come down the pike.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:14:51

ararboin wrote:"Yes, in the South, we call what is happening to Americans "cow tumping" which is the act of sneaking out into a cow pasture and pushing a cow over in its sleep."

Have you, yourself, ever tried to do this on a real live cow? This is one of the dumber urban myths to come down the pike.


What about the whole thing with sheep, then? :)
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Jotapay » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 10:46:33

Nickel wrote:
What's your logic?


God, it's about guns. Where does logic come into it?

"This is great ice cream!" "Yes, if only my GUN were here!"

"Did you see Letterman last night?" "Yes, isn't it sad he wasn't armed?" "Well, it's that Paul Schaffer, you know..."

"Did you hear the Senate has nixed the automotive bailout?" "They were right to; not a single word about the right to bear arms in the whole proposal. When will we see a sub-compact with machine guns?" "Too right!!"

Too "right" indeed. :cry:


I believe it is you, sir, who have no logic. What you posted above contains no thesis and supporting evidence. In fact, it has negative authority on the subject since you approached it in such a childish manner.

As I have shown in the past, you have virtually no historical understanding of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. You stated that "militia" referred to the National Guard or Army, while I was able to specifically show you that the term militia was defined by act of Congress in 1792 as every single able-bodied man in the country capable of handling a firearm.

There is plenty of logical writing about firearms, especially by those who founded our country. You just need to educate yourself and quit spouting uninformed garbage in public.
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Re: Thank for the Atlantic, as Greek riots spread across Eur

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 12 Dec 2008, 11:34:48

Jotapay wrote:You stated that "militia" referred to the National Guard or Army, while I was able to specifically show you that the term militia was defined by act of Congress in 1792 as every single able-bodied man in the country capable of handling a firearm.


The Second Amendment was written BEFORE 1792. And unless said act of Congress supersedes the Constitution -- which, obviously, it does not -- it's moot. The interpretation of the Constitution is the bailiwick of the Supreme Court, not Congress, anyway.

Also, it's not 1792 anymore. If everyone were still considered to be in the militia, states would have no need to form state militias... would they?
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