[Graeme]

Not even climate change will kill off capitalism

As long as the conditions for investment and profit remain, the system will adapt. Which is why we need a revolution

Arguably the single most important mistake the revolutionary movements of the 60s and 70s made was to overlook the resilience of capitalism. The idea – catastrophism, as it is often called – that the system was going to crumble under the pressure of its own contradictions, that the bourgeoisie produces its own "gravediggers" (as Marx and Engels put it in the Communist Manifesto) has been disproved. When the rate of profit started showing signs of decline in the first half of the 70s, the redistributive policies implemented after the second world war were terminated and the neoliberal revolution was launched.

This resilience of capitalism has little to do with the dominant classes being particularly clever or far-sighted. In fact, they can keep on making mistakes – yet capitalism still thrives. Why?

Capitalism has created a world of great complexity since its birth. Yet at its core, it is based on a set of simple mechanisms that can easily adapt to adversity. This is a kind of "generative grammar" in Noam Chomsky's sense: a finite set of rules can generate an infinity of outcomes.

The context today is very different from that of the 60s and 70s. The global left, however, is in danger of committing the same error of underestimating capitalism all over again. Catastrophism, this time, takes the form of investing faith in a new object: climate change, and more generally the ecological crisis.

There is a worryingly widespread belief in leftwing circles that capitalism will not survive the environmental crisis. The system, so the story goes, has reached its absolute limits: without natural resources – oil among them – it can't function, and these resources are fast depleting; the growing number of ecological disasters will increase the cost of maintaining infrastructures to unsustainable levels; and the impact of a changing climate on food prices will induce riots that will make societies ungovernable.

The beauty of catastrophism, today as in the past, is that if the system is to crumble under the weight of its own contradictions, the weakness of the left ceases to be a problem. The end of capitalism takes the form of suicide rather than murder. So the absence of a murderer – that is, an organised revolutionary movement – doesn't really matter any more.


Nothing in the system's logic will make it go away. A world of environmental desolation and conflict will work for capitalism, as long as the conditions for investment and profit are guaranteed. And, for this, good old finance and the military are ready to serve. Building a revolutionary movement that will put a stop to this insane logic is therefore not optional. Because, if the system can survive, it doesn't mean that lives worth living will.

theguardian

[Lore]

Nothing in the system's logic will make it go away. A world of environmental desolation and conflict will work for capitalism, as long as the conditions for investment and profit are guaranteed.

Contradictory and out to lunch statement based on a group of illogical assumptions. Wealth accumulation will survive in some form, modern capitalism will not.

[KaiserJeep]

Nothing in the system's logic will make it go away. A world of environmental desolation and conflict will work for capitalism, as long as the conditions for investment and profit are guaranteed.

Contradictory and out to lunch statement based on a group of illogical assumptions. Wealth accumulation will survive in some form, modern capitalism will not.

If modern capitalism cannot survive - and that seems likely given that we are probably going to lose both the power grid and the internet - meaning that electronic currencies are gone - we will probably regress to an earlier form, such as 19th Century "Robber Baron" capitalism, and the gold standard.

The only certainty is that we will NEVER devolve capitalism into the feverish opium dreams of Marx and Engels. That never worked, and never will.

[Pops]

Capitalism will not die without being killed and the killers would necessarily be those with no property.

What landowner has ever taken up the pitchfork against himself to redistribute his tract house?

LOL

Private property - in small parcels for regular folks - is the secret to the rise of American capitalism. The only difference between n. america and south was that most english came to NA as indentured servants expressly on the promise of being granted a few tens of acres upon fulfilling their servitude. They then pushed off the natives and imported some slaves and it was off to the races. In south america the elites came over from Spain and divided up the natives amongst themselves for slaves but the King retained control of the land and no regular guy ever owned land of consequence.

I know, this is the same old argument we have around here time after time but the fact remains as long as there is private property and the ability to profit from it there will be capitalism - it might be big corporate style like the article describes or, post PO, it might be small cotton mills and distilleries but it won't go away from wishful thinking.

[Lore]

Marx was a capitalist too. Just a different form of it. I agree, no system that we would recognize as capitalism will be left to function.

[Lore]

I know, this is the same old argument we have around here time after time but the fact remains as long as there is private property and the ability to profit from it there will be capitalism - it might be big corporate style like the article describes or, post PO, it might be small cotton mills and distilleries but it won't go away from wishful thinking.

Then again, it's the same old retort. The subject here is climate change's effects on capitalism. Displaced and homeless people without property have been the bane of many a society and social system. That's what climate change will do.

[dissident]

Yeah, the few remaining humans ekeing out a living like 20,000 years ago will be running a modern consumer society in the coming centuries. Capitalism will be forgotten like any other "ism" once the food gets sparse.

[Lore]

We're not going back to "Little House On The Prairie". More like "The Walking Dead".

First of all, we all have to get in through our heads that we don't own anything anyway. At best we rent it. We are sharecroppers for the future. Our property can be taken by force, or decree at anytime.

[radon1]

Basically, he is suggesting that the climate change can be dealt with by issuing cat bonds and killing everyone. In principle, he is correct, even though it is not clear why at all bother with the cat bonds. Probably, because this way the solution can be elegantly called a hybrid financial product.

[Lore]

Capitalism is responding to the challenge of the ecological crisis with two of its favourite weapons: financialisation and militarisation.

I'm not rushing out to buy CAT bonds. So, forget the financialisation mumble jumble. And since when was militarisation ever the defender of capitalism? It seeks its own interest.

[kuidaskassikaeb]

I thought capitalism was killing us through global warming, not the other way around. Democracies are capable of dealing with market failures. Now we have an upper class that won't let us.

[Kristen]

Technically in the US, we have a mixed economy. However the Guardian is right. We've gone too far to pull back now! We will continue imbibing instant gratification because it is all we know now and can remember.

[step back]

We're not going back to "Little House On The Prairie". More like "The Walking Dead".

First of all, we all have to get in through our heads that we don't own anything anyway. At best we rent it. We are sharecroppers for the future. Our property can be taken by force, or decree at anytime.

Capitalism is merely a front word for "Deservihood".
I deserve. You don't.

(Which is why capitalists so fear the opposed view of "everybody deserves" --aka socialism)

The concept of "I deserve. You don't." holds true in almost all societal organizations: feudalism, fascism, etc. There is little unique in how capitalism advances the doctrine of "Deservihood".

When the pie starts looking like a shrinking one, we are going to see "Deservihood" bare its ugly face more blatantly.

The ""Walking Dead" zombie series is an allusion to the "Deservihood" doctrine. Zombies don't deserve to exist. But the King's son (Carl is Regal Rick's son --wears the passed down crown) must never die. He "deserves".

[Lore]

The ""Walking Dead" zombie series is an allusion to the "Deservihood" doctrine. Zombies don't deserve to exist. But the King's son (Carl is Regal Rick's son --wears the passed down crown) must never die. He "deserves".

Actually, I was referring to the interplay between humans in a world where even wealth accumulation has little meaning and the struggle for survival means only those adept, empowered and very lucky win.

[Timo]

Here's my 2 cents, which is probably all that it's worth. So far in this thread, everyone is probably absolutely right. Capitalism will die, and nothing will kill capitalism. The variance there is in its form and mutations resulting from resource depletion an climate change. Only time will tell, and therein lies the deal killer: TIME! IMO, we're very quickly running out of time to even allow any economic system to evolve to meet contemporary needs. Those with the means are gathering the power to control the systems of governance. Those without the means are banding together to consolidate their power in opposition. The future looks bloody, indeed, across the whole world over. But with regard to time, any world-wide "system" of trade and commerce is on borrowed time. Climate change will pre-empt humanities ability to adapt to degrading conditions. All of our systems will become smaller and more localized, with fewer of the Haves and more of the Have Nots. Technology will not become a thing of the past, but for a great number of people without the means to access technology, it will become a distant memory. Whatever system emereges in the the near-term future, it will be centered exclusively around control - control of resources, both mineral and human. The future is changing, and those who gain and maintain control of the system that emerges will stand as the winners. Everyone else is just a resource to be used by those who have gained control. Apply whatever "ism" you want to whatever that system is called.

[Plantagenet]

Capitalism isn't the problem---CO2 is the problem.

[Timo]

Capitalism isn't the problem---CO2 is the problem.

There's money to be made by creating CO2 emissions beyond reglatory limits. Limiting your emissions costs more money, thus less profits, thus less competitive, thus out of business. There is no capitalist room for planetary responsibility. What's the product i can consume that produces a cleaner atmosphere?

[Plantagenet]

Capitalism isn't the problem---CO2 is the problem.

What's the product i can consume that produces a cleaner atmosphere?

Do you imagine you won't be consuming products if you aren't living in a capitalist society? Socialists eat food and buy clothes and heat their homes and drive cars just like capitalists do.

If you are going to drive a car and produce CO2, it doesn't matter if you are in a socialist or capitalist society---the problem is the car is producing CO2.

[Lore]

Capitalism is steroids to climate change.