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THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

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THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby dbruning » Wed 28 Mar 2012, 18:38:48

Why aren't the OPEC guys using the extra profit to buy gold instead? Surely they see that the treasuries they are buying are going to pay off less in the future?

Or do they realize that if the US goes down the game ends?
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby AgentR11 » Mon 02 Apr 2012, 19:39:10

OPEC's lifeline depends on the ability purchase US grain. All US farms will be operating with dollar debt, dollar taxes, dollar payrolls, dollar maintenance, dollar inputs, etc. Gold, may or may not be the best way to preserve wealth, but if your ability to stay in power, living the high life in wondrous palaces depends on the rabble always having bread; well, you may just want to sit on dollars, because short of a 2012 Movie II Live; dollars gives you grain, grain gives you peace, peace gives you luxury in your palace.

Simple.
For those of us living in the US, it doesn't work the same; our incidental income or even government subsidy payments will always be sufficient to purchase adequate grain; so gold or stocks or whatever look to be somewhat safer.
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 00:21:10

WSJ: Fed Buying 61 Percent of US Debt
The Federal Reserve is propping up the entire U.S. economy by buying 61 percent of the government debt issued by the Treasury Department, a trend that cannot last, Lawrence Goodman, a former Treasury official and current president of the Center for Financial Stability, writes in a Wall Street Journal opinion article published Wednesday.

"Last year the Fed purchased a stunning 61 percent of the total net Treasury issuance, up from negligible amounts prior to the 2008 financial crisis," Goodman writes.

Goodman also warns that U.S. economy and markets are “at risk for a sharp correction” if conditions aren’t “normalized.”

"This not only creates the false appearance of limitless demand for U.S. debt but also blunts any sense of urgency to reduce supersized budget deficits."

The U.S. government is growing increasingly more dependent on borrowing to finance itself, with net issuance of Treasury securities hitting 8.6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on average per annum, more than double levels before the crisis.

Fed intervention in the government debt market makes demand for Treasury bonds appear higher than it really is, as foreign creditors and other investors have fled U.S. government debt instruments and are looking elsewhere until the government makes serious attempts to curb spending and narrow its gaping deficits.

Goodman notes that foreign investors like Japan and China that once scooped up U.S. debt are shunning it. In 2009, such foreign purchases of U.S. debt amounted to 6 percent of GDP and has since falled by over eighty percent to a paltry 0.9 percent.

Without foreign buyers and a shrinking base of U.S. corporate and bank buyers, the Treasury has had to resort to the Federal Reserve itself to make the purchases. The Fed purchasing not only makes up the shortfall, but can keep long term interest rates artificially low.

"The Fed is in effect subsidizing U.S. government spending and borrowing via expansion of its balance sheet and massive purchases of Treasury bonds. This keeps Treasury interest rates abnormally low, camouflaging the true size of the budget deficit," Goodman writes.

"Similarly, the Fed is providing preferential credit to the U.S. government and covering a rapidly widening gap between Treasury's need to borrow and a more limited willingness among market participants to supply Treasury with credit."

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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby smiley » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 18:19:14

WSJ: Fed Buying 61 Percent of US Debt


That doesn't surprise me at all. Last year's budget deficit of the US government was as large as the whole economy of Australia

The US is putting out more debt than the rest of the world can finance, so the only one who can create the amount of money needed to keep things going is the FED. And since the FED artificially keeps rates low, nobody else will be interested in buying US debt.

Unless the US gets serious about the budget deficit, and allow for more realistic interest rates on their securities, QE4,5,6,7,8..... are a guarantee.
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 22 Mar 2014, 12:23:52

http://www.usdebtclock.org/#

17,528,000,000.00 and counting.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 22 Mar 2014, 12:39:01

Tanada wrote:http://www.usdebtclock.org/#

17,528,000,000.00 and counting.


The real game is how quickly interest payments on the debt are going up.

The most recent Obama budget proposal projects that by 2020 the federal government will have to pay 800 BILLION dollars a year in interest payments.

That money is going to have to come out of funds that would otherwise go to defense, infrastructure, research, social security etc. :roll:
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 22 Mar 2014, 17:09:30

Plantagenet wrote:
Tanada wrote:http://www.usdebtclock.org/#

17,528,000,000.00 and counting.


The real game is how quickly interest payments on the debt are going up.

The most recent Obama budget proposal projects that by 2020 the federal government will have to pay 800 BILLION dollars a year in interest payments.

That money is going to have to come out of funds that would otherwise go to defense, infrastructure, research, social security etc. :roll:

Now you know why the FED and other banks are keeping interest rates so low, any significant rise would almost certainly trigger a default from some of the biggest debtors on the planet.

They don't want to overwork the golden goose now do they.
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby peterjames » Tue 27 May 2014, 05:58:32

Paying higher interest isnt an issue if you just add the interest to the capital. You just keep blowing up the bubble.
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 27 May 2014, 20:48:01

Obama is on track to leave a budget surplus
APRIL 11, 2014 - Bill Clinton left the presidency with a budget surplus. And although the first five years of Barack Obama's presidency have featured high (but falling) deficits, it's starting to look like Obama could do the same.

For the first time since the 1950s, federal spending is lower than it was four years ago:

Image

As Mike Darda argues:

The fiscal deficit has been falling by an average of 1.5 percentage points per annum since peaking in late 2009. If this trend continues, it would imply a balanced budget during 2015 and a fiscal surplus in 2016.


Obama leaving office with a balanced budget would come as a big shock to those who have compared the U.S. to crisis-stricken countries like Greece, or claimed that Obama is spending like a drunken sailor.

But that is exactly what the U.S. is on trend to do. (h/t James Pethokoukis) - - John Aziz
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 28 May 2014, 07:25:54

copious.abundance wrote:Obama is on track to leave a budget surplus
APRIL 11, 2014 - Bill Clinton left the presidency with a budget surplus. And although the first five years of Barack Obama's presidency have featured high (but falling) deficits, it's starting to look like Obama could do the same.

For the first time since the 1950s, federal spending is lower than it was four years ago:

Image

As Mike Darda argues:

The fiscal deficit has been falling by an average of 1.5 percentage points per annum since peaking in late 2009. If this trend continues, it would imply a balanced budget during 2015 and a fiscal surplus in 2016.


Obama leaving office with a balanced budget would come as a big shock to those who have compared the U.S. to crisis-stricken countries like Greece, or claimed that Obama is spending like a drunken sailor.

But that is exactly what the U.S. is on trend to do. (h/t James Pethokoukis) - - John Aziz

Copious if you believe that I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying.
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Re: THE US National Debt Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Strummer » Wed 28 May 2014, 07:57:03

copious.abundance wrote:Obama leaving office with a balanced budget would come as a big shock to those who have compared the U.S. to crisis-stricken countries like Greece, or claimed that Obama is spending like a drunken sailor.


Ireland had a public debt of only about 20% GDP when it plunged into its biggest crisis. That's because private debt is a much more important factor than public debt. Funny how private debt always seems to be ignored when talking about "spending like a drunken sailor".
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