[TommyJefferson]

Fascism is such a useless term these days. So many definitions for it and no-one usually says what meaning they are using. Some I know people have used:

fascism is
a) attitude of people who wants sticter control over society
b) marxist definition: supporters of ruling class who engage in violence are fascist
c) general leftist term to slander whoever thinks differently
d) the historical Italian movement
e) economical arragement where goverment rules for the benefit of big corporations
f) everyone on the loser side of ww2
g) members of police and those who symphatise with them

And now this is new one for me.
h) share our wealth movement as fascism

Fascism is all of those things.

Go read the history of great American fascists like Huey P. Long and Franklin D. Roosevelt.

I was raised in Louisiana. National Socialism made Louisiana the wonderful place it is today. In the past I was employed by both the corporations and public entities that worked hand-in-hand to make it that way.

The toxic pollution I've waded through and seen inspectors paid off to ignore would break your heart.

"Share the wealth". Ha! More like "Use the force of government to rip off taxpayers and hand the loot to private corporations and corrupt state agencies"; a.k.a fascism.

[zeke]

saw this posted on a board today sort of as the lastest great big discovery which will save us....

not sure of the figures, but it sounds like a rehash of old gas now made much more attractive by spiking oil prices..

zeke

NY Times article on LA "gas rush"

[joeltrout]

It is a natural gas play that has nothing to do with spiking oil prices.

Natural gas prices are down over 30%.

However many mineral owners are making a lot of money on the leases. I talked to a landman who worked the area and was paying around $15,000/ac. and 25% royalty.

That can make somebody very rich very quick if a good gas well is completed on their minerals.

joeltrout

[copious.abundance]

Another thread on this here:
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic38283.html

[copious.abundance]

Holy moly, this is the first time I've seen a figure for the entire play:

Nobody knows for certain how big an area the Haynesville Shale covers — no government entity has mapped it. But energy companies and experts say it is large, possibly the largest in the lower 48 states, with an estimated 250 trillion cubic feet of recoverable gas. (Last year, the United States consumed 23 trillion feet.).

Damn, that's a lot of gas.

[the48thronin]

Holy moly, this is the first time I've seen a figure for the entire play:
Damn, that's a lot of gas.

Cajun food...... red bens and rice, why are you surprised there would be a LOT OF GAS there?


( I cant help myself)

[copious.abundance]

^


Except this is in NW Louisiana, which is Anglo country.

[zeke]

But energy companies and experts say it is large, possibly the largest in the lower 48 states, with an estimated 250 trillion cubic feet of recoverable gas. (Last year, the United States consumed 23 trillion feet.).

Damn, that's a lot of gas.[/quote]

OK. 2 things:

1." energy companies and experts say..." OK. Let's have some names. Which companies? Which experts?

2. 250 trillion at 23 trillion/ year is a bit over 10 years' supply. We *know* the consumption rate will grow. Don't get me wrong; 250 Trillion is better than nothing, but people are acting like this is the great energy miracle the human race has been waiting for. Along the lines of "no more problems/plenty of cheap for all" etc..

Also, in that linked article, they're pretty cagey with what they're talking about.
words like "could be" etc...so, this is theoretical gas based on some things which might tend to imply a big gas field.

And investors jumping in head first without checking to see if there's water in the pool beforehand?

that dog don't hunt...

Sounds wierd to me, the whole thing..

zeke

[3aidlillahi]

1." energy companies and experts say..." OK. Let's have some names. Which companies? Which experts?

I watched a segment on CNBC about this. They had the CEO from Chesapeake Energy. I imagine they are major players in the find or development. Said it's possibly the 4th largest in the world.

[ROCKMAN]

zeke,

Being a petroleum geologist for 33 years I can give you the oil patch definition of "probable reserves" (and all its other various forms): you have no proof that my number isn't right. It's difficult enough to be more than 70% accurate after having a field drilled up and on production. There is a SL of gas out there for sure. But, IMHO, you can judge anyone's number (high or low) as just a wild guess.

[joeltrout]

1." energy companies and experts say..." OK. Let's have some names. Which companies? Which experts?

I know Chesapeake has been going head strong in this area along with the Marcellus Shale.

However I dont know if they are the companies or experts referred to in the article.

joeltrout

[joeltrout]

Chesapeake sells Woodford Shale assets to focus more on Haynesville, Barnett, & Marcellus.

News Release

Aubrey K. McClendon, Chesapeake's Chief Executive Officer, commented,
"There was substantial industry interest in our Woodford Shale asset
package and we are pleased to announce the sale of these properties to BP.
This transaction completes another aspect of our asset monetization program
and enables Chesapeake to redeploy capital to our Haynesville, Barnett and
Marcellus Shale plays and further improves the company's capital structure.

joeltrout

[zeke]

I watched a segment on CNBC about this. They had the CEO from Chesapeake Energy. I imagine they are major players in the find or development. Said it's possibly the 4th largest in the world.

OK..well, then, it sounds like it really IS a "problem solved" discovery.
But will prices drop way down now? or will they continue to be high bcs oil prices are high?

and how will the glut of natural gas offset high oil prices or short oil supply?

my guess is they won't/they can't bcs gas is not oil.

but I guess more heating, more gas-fired electricity, more anhydrous for farms?

zeke

[joeltrout]

But will prices drop way down now? or will they continue to be high bcs oil prices are high?

?????????????

Natural gas prices have dropped 34% since July 3rd.

Natural gas prices are tanking faster than California real estate.

joeltrout

[zeke]

?????????????

Natural gas prices have dropped 34% since July 3rd.
Natural gas prices are tanking faster than California real estate.

joeltrout

Ah... well, I am not up on gas prices, so that is good to know...but in that article, they call it a "Gas Rush." You know, like a Gold Rush.

"Rush" suggests that "you better move glutes and cash in NOW while you have a chance"

And usually, there isn't a "rush" on something unless money can be made, which suggests prices which favor getting rich in a hurry.

Why else would the ppls' land suddenly skyrocket in value, or the land owners who were poor yesterday are millionaires today?

Does all of that that happen based on a commodity's falling prices?

Like I said, I don't claim to be an economics whiz.


zeke

[shortonoil]

ROCKMAN said:

Being a petroleum geologist for 33 years I can give you the oil patch definition of "probable reserves" (and all its other various forms): you have no proof that my number isn't right. It's difficult enough to be more than 70% accurate after having a field drilled up and on production. There is a SL of gas out there for sure. But, IMHO, you can judge anyone's number (high or low) as just a wild guess.

Having had many clients in Louisiana over the years and knowing a little about the oil & gas industry there, I find it had to believe that this is a new find. I doubt that there is 10 sq. ft of Louy that wasn’t gone over with a fine tooth comb 50 years ago.

Until we find out particulars like field sizes (fields that deplete by 40% per year are everywhere, but no one wants them), is this dry or wet gas and etc., this may just be more media hype (remember Kashagan’s massive fields that turned out to be sulfuric acid laced road tar).

Usually this type of thing is more about promoters who want to sell stock and companies who want to run up their stock prices ahead of a new offering, than it is about increased resources.

“Salt’en the mine”, is as old as man kind, and still mobs of people fall for it!

[joeltrout]

Ah... well, I am not up on gas prices, so that is good to know...but in that article, they call it a "Gas Rush." You know, like a Gold Rush.

"Rush" suggests that "you better move glutes and cash in NOW while you have a chance"

And usually, there isn't a "rush" on something unless money can be made, which suggests prices which favor getting rich in a hurry.

Why else would the ppls' land suddenly skyrocket in value, or the land owners who were poor yesterday are millionaires today?

Does all of that that happen based on a commodity's falling prices?

Like I said, I don't claim to be an economics whiz.


zeke

$9 gas is not that low and there is definitely a profit to be made.

The reason it is a rush is most of these unconventional fields were not economic because the technology did not exist to make these areas productive. Now they have the technology to make these shales/tight gas sands produce paying quantities of natural gas. Before they could not get enough money to pay for the expenses of a well. Now they can.

The rush refers to the aggressive leasing that companies are doing in areas like the Haynesville, Marcellus and still the Barnett. People have known about those fields for decades but very few people leased those lands because they could not make money. So much of the land is unleased and companies are trying to lease as much as possible. That is what is driving up prices for the mineral owners and making them rich. Then if a well is drilled and completed on their minerals they are set for life. They get a monthly royalty check based on the production.

joeltrout

[zeke]

Usually this type of thing is more about promoters who want to sell stock and companies who want to run up their stock prices ahead of a new offering, than it is about increased resources.

Yeah! And there is content in that article to support that idea.

Kinda reminds me of the internet boom back in the 90s in that people were investing dump trucks of money into internet startups which had no actual product, had never made a dime of profit, yet were overnight valued in the 100s of millions for some unknown mystery reason.

...Other than everybody got this lemming fever and thot "everybody's going to cash in BIG, so I need to start throwing in money, too!"

And we saw how that whole thing turned out.

I personally don't pay for a steak unless I get to SEE the actual steak first.


zeke

[shortonoil]

zeke said:

I personally don't pay for a steak unless I get to SEE the actual steak first.

Very good attitude to have if you are getting into extractive resources industries. I was in the resource leasing business for 30 years. I still own rights on 4 gas wells and one coal field in W.Va. Two structural stone quarries in New England and one iron mine in Newfoundland, CA. No reasonable offer refused!

I have run into some great people in this area over the years. They have amounted to about 1 in 100 of the shysters operating in it.

[joeltrout]

Usually this type of thing is more about promoters who want to sell stock and companies who want to run up their stock prices ahead of a new offering, than it is about increased resources.

Yeah! And there is content in that article to support that idea.

That is very smart and I wish more people would do the homework themselves instead of trusting a news paper article, email, or their friend's "advice".

However I will point out Aubrey McClendon has bought over $185 MILLION worth of CHK stock on the open market. He is investing his personal wealth back into the company he runs. So that is proof he believes those 3 major plays are going to pay off big.

He knows more about natural gas than anyone in the US. He has a group of "shale scientist" that work for him that spend all their time researching shale. Either he knows something really big or is making a huge gamble. Chesapeake was near bankruptcy many times in the beginning but prices turned in their favor. Aubrey must be betting on that again.

joeltrout