[Narz]

I hear a lot on here along the lines of "everything we know & love is only possibly because of oil" so I wonder if there's ever been an alternative history fiction where oil was never discovered.

So what do you think? What would the modern world be like without oil?

[basil_hayden]

Familiar with Haiti?

[dolanbaker]

Britain built an empire based on a coal driven industrial revolution, though it must be remembered that the earlier phase was water powered.

Without oil, we would be most likely past peak coal and struggling.

[yellowcanoe]

I think we would be doing fine. We would not have the high standard of living that we do now, but we also would not have roughly 7 billion people to support. Before Henry Ford pioneered the mass production of automobiles we had been well on our way to building an electric powered transportation system in the form of streetcar lines and inter-urban lines which in many areas was powered with clean hydroelectric power. As coal became scarcer and more expensive the national rail system would have been electrified and there would have been a move to introduce other sources of renewable power such as wind generators. Development of electronics would have occurred at a slower pace but I think we would have eventually developed photo-voltaic systems. Per capita energy consumption would not have been able to reach the level it currently is at so we'd be living in smaller homes and not doing anywhere near as much traveling as is typically done now. Oil will be seen by future historians to have been a dead end as it caused us to abandon technologies that were more sustainable and increase our energy consumption to a level that would not be sustainable.

[Plantagenet]

We'd still be in the coal-age.


the year 2014 in the coal-age.

[dorlomin]

Other than air travel oil did not really become a dominant feature of the worlds economy till after WWII. We also would have natural gas and CTL that could be used for ICUs. More public transport, no holidays to Florida and more wars over coal.

[Pops]

I guess it depends on where you draw the line, all FFs are the same basic process, just different stages. Diesel ran his engine on coal dust for that matter (although it wasn't a great success)

I'd think we get to essentially the same place development wise, just not as fast and so not at such a potentially overshot position.

[Narz]

Familiar with Haiti?

Ridiculous. Haiti was a paradise before fossil fuels.

[Pops]

Slavery in Haiti has existed since Christopher Columbus established a fort on the island in 1492. During the French colonial period, the economy of Haiti (also known as Saint-Domingue) was based on slavery, and the practice there was known as the most brutal in the world.

Wiki

Sound familiar? LOL

[Narz]

Well Europeans ruined everything, they were wrecking havoc on the virgin Earth far before oil

[Subjectivist]

Interesting thread I remembered from the old days,
post219218.html

Lots of back and forth arguments pro and con, I think the upshot is there are lots of ways we could have gotten to modern technology without necesarily needing fossil fuels.

[Serial_Worrier]

Well Europeans ruined everything, they were wrecking havoc on the virgin Earth far before oil

Racist post just got flagged.

[basil_hayden]

Familiar with Haiti?

Ridiculous. Haiti was a paradise before fossil fuels.

Wrongo!

Haiti was a "paradise" before there were TOO MANY PEOPLE, mostly poor and unable to afford fossil fuels, that ultimately chopped every tree down on their half of a beautiful island to make charcoal for fun and profit. To connect the dots properly for you: overpopulation caused deforestation and its detrimental effects such as soil erosion, with carrying capacity permanently reduced.

But thanks for playing!

[Narz]

Familiar with Haiti?

Ridiculous. Haiti was a paradise before fossil fuels.

Wrongo!

Haiti was a "paradise" before there were TOO MANY PEOPLE, mostly poor and unable to afford fossil fuels, that ultimately chopped every tree down on their half of a beautiful island to make charcoal for fun and profit. To connect the dots properly for you: overpopulation caused deforestation and its detrimental effects such as soil erosion, with carrying capacity permanently reduced.

But thanks for playing!

Sure but Haiti's population probably wouldn't have gotten so bloated without fossil fuels, they were certainly benefiting from them even if they couldn't afford the amounts needed to sustain them.

[aldente]

We'd still be in the coal-age.


the year 2014 in the coal-age.

The SR-71, the most handsome airplane ever built would have had to been coal- fired in order to make it to its "averge" travel speed of Mach 3.