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Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 07 May 2014, 22:37:35

Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash: Study

Oil explorers like Exxon Mobil Corp. and OAO Rosneft risk wasting $1.1 trillion of investors’ cash through 2025 on expensive, uneconomic projects from the Arctic and deep seas to tar sands, according to a study.

That’s the sum the industry may spend on developments that need market prices of at least $95 a barrel to break even, the Carbon Tracker Initiative said. The money risks being wasted as the total amount of oil the world can afford to burn without warming the planet to unsafe levels is available from less costly deposits that are economical at $75 a barrel, according to its report.

Petroleo Brasileiro SA’s capital spending on projects needing $95 a barrel or more may reach $83 billion through 2025, with Exxon at $73 billion and Rosneft at $70 billion, Carbon Tracker said. The figures aren’t the companies’ own figures but were estimated by the non-profit group, whose backers include the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust and European Climate Foundation.


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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 07 May 2014, 23:05:14

my experience is that all of these outside third party reviews of economics miss the boat unless they have access to all of the contractual and cost information that the companies have. In large part they estimate operating costs, capex exposure, G&A based on industry averages and sometimes on the high end of the scale. I guaranty that EOM is not going to be taking large risks with respect to oil and gas pricing....it isn't in their DNA.

I suggest looking at Exxon Mobils return on capital employed over the past few years as well as the fact the share price has increased 30% between 2011 and 2014, basically 10% return on investment per annum (excluding dividend income) which beats hell out of the 3% or so increase on most of the market indices. So as an investor in Exxon Mobil.....please risk more of my money!!

This in contrast to all of the solar or green companies Obama has been pushing....Solyna did somewhat worse than EOM :razz: And I believe there is a more recent solar company Obama backed that is about to go belly up as well.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 07 May 2014, 23:41:26

Typical industry damage control. Can't wait to see your industry wiped off the map before you wipe us off the map.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 08 May 2014, 06:22:57

Graeme - Doc presents factual data to refute the claim unsupported by facts. And you call it "damage control". Your choice of course but a rather weak response IMHO and does nothing to discredit his statement. And ExxonMobil doesn't spend "investor money"...it spends its own revenue. And it does so for the benefit of its shareholders. Shareholders that have greatly benefited from their effort in not only stock valuation but collected nice steady dividends along the way. And those simple and unimpeachable FACTUAL AND PUBLIC NUMBERS completely discredit this report.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby BobInget » Thu 08 May 2014, 14:51:10

Highly experimental and dangerous Arctic E&P is one thing. Linking that with oil (or tar, if you will) sands operations that first started producing back in 1969 is quite another. I'll argue it weakens the entire argument. Dirty and nasty as oil sands can get, even a major spill won't end life as we know it on this planet. Gratuitous amalgamations remind me of poorly produced propaganda. Drilling in the Arctic is a serious mater and should be of interest to every living human.

International, including eminent Russian, scientific researchers all agree, an oil spill in the Arctic will
adversely effect our entire food chain. Also, dramatically expensive Arctic drilling is a huge 'tell'. Why
risk eventual extinction if more temperate climate resources were still 'putting out' ?
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 08 May 2014, 18:55:00

Facts! What a joke. The oil industry has been spreading lies and disinformation about climate change for decades, and in some quarters they are still doing it to a gullible public!

But the scale of the problem may now be so large that everyone, regardless of motivation, begins to fall in line. Rational environmentalists want to reduce carbon output in order to save the world from ecological disaster. Rational investors and corporate executives and Wall Street people want to reduce carbon output to save their own interests from financial disaster. Eventually, these two sides will merge, and at that point, things can get done. Strange bedfellows and all that.

A good example of this dynamic: a new report from the Carbon Tracker Initiative, a group that merges financial data and intelligence with climate change issues, so the money people can see exactly what is at stake. They estimate that the global oil industry has $1.1 trillion invested in nontraditional projects—like tar sands, and deep water drilling—that will need an oil price of $95 a barrel just for them to break even. That should be somewhat alarming to the rational money people, since prices now hover around $100 a barrel (it was as low as $16 a barrel less than 20 years ago), and global warming reality demands a sharp decrease in oil consumption if we are to avoid the worst of the catastrophe.

Our analysis also shows that if demand for oil is not substantially reduced we are clearly heading for a level of warming far in excess of 2°C. Which reveals that there is no free lunch here for investors. Either policy and technological tipping points will reduce demand in line with our analysis or we will face levels of warming described as catastrophic by many.

So all the money people and the oil companies that are still pouring more than a trillion dollars into oil exploration will, at some point, have to face up to the harsh reality that they must choose between mindlessly continuing down the same path in search of profits, or accepting that we need to plan for a decline in oil supply and a decline in oil profits and a decline in exploratory projects, and that huge portions of the money they are still pouring into such things may end up being lost, because the alternative is more awful global disaster for all humanity.

We're not there yet. But we're getting there. We may not get there fast enough.


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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 08 May 2014, 20:04:12

They estimate that the global oil industry has $1.1 trillion invested in nontraditional projects—like tar sands, and deep water drilling—that will need an oil price of $95 a barrel just for them to break even. That should be somewhat alarming to the rational money people, since prices now hover around $100 a barrel (it was as low as $16 a barrel less than 20 years ago), and global warming reality demands a sharp decrease in oil consumption if we are to avoid the worst of the catastrophe.


Here is a simple fact that shows how utterly stupid this statement is. We have been several times been below $95/bbl and that did not stop the majors from drilling very deep oil wells in ultradeep water offshore Latin America and West Africa. Companies do not use price forecasts that are inordinately high, in my experience they ere on the cautious side. They also will not drill a well that is obviously uneconomic at todays price.....they have a Board and shareholders to answer to. Heavy oil activity has been on-going in Canada since the seventies. I remember working on heavy oil projects back when oil was at $20/bbl, it made sense then. The industry view currently is that a price of $80/bbl is required to enter into NEW heavy oil projects but that projects that are already fully capitalized and producing can withstand pricing as low as $50/bbl.

Here is a test for you. Pick any of the majors involved in heavy oil or deepwater exploration and go back 2-3 years when oil prices were consistently below $95/bbl for most of the year. Go to their SEC filings and look at profits generated. If this article is correct they should have been in loss situation. Guaranty you that wasn't the case.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 08 May 2014, 20:34:40

Graeme - "Facts! What a joke. The oil industry has been spreading lies and disinformation about climate change for decades..." We were discussing the returns to the Big Oil shareholders as a result of the huge capex outlays. We weren't discussing climate change. I am sympathetic that Doc's FACTS completely refute the article and leaves you with no place to hide. But trying to change the debate to avoid admitting you were wrong only hurts your case more IMHO.

The site policy is to try to stay on the thread topic as close as possible. So reminder of the thread you started: "Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash: Study". I don't see anything in that title about climate change. We have plenty of such threads already running.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby peterjames » Thu 08 May 2014, 23:34:04

Roc, I did happen to see a Nat Geo documentary last night about the tar sands projects in Canada. Specifically it concentrated on Syncrudes mine (and by the sounds of it, the doc appeared a few years old), and did mention a few times that Syncrude become uneconomical a few times due to low oil prices.

As to if they are profitable now, even at the prices now. Well I did try and read syncrude and suncors annual results last night, and they looked to be doing ok (but then again so did Enron). The huge issue that I saw from the docco, was the environmental damage, that was not being transferred to the balance sheet.

Every mining operation around the world has its own environmental impacts (and I have seen a few), but I suspect Canadians ( and the world) are operating at a huge future loss when it comes to Tar Sand mining.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 08 May 2014, 23:45:42

Bollocks! Read the report and the rest of the Bloomberg article! It not only discusses increasing exploration expenditure but also increasing costs due to climate change.

Oil price assumptions

The breakeven price includes an Internal Rate ofReturn (IRR) of 10%, (where NPV=0), but does not
allow any room for increased costs, or a fall in oil prices. It may also be insufficient to contribute to
making a company cashflow neutral once it has covered other commitments such as dividends.
Rystad therefore expect that an oil company would allow another $15 when making investment
decisions, depending on its portfolio of projects. This means that a $60 breakeven project would be
dependent on assuming a $75 Brent oil price.

Rising costs

According to Bloomberg data, capital expenditure by the largest oil companies is
now five times the level it was in 2000. Yet the production of the companies has barely
increased. This continuing fall in capex productivity has been masked by the annual
average Brent oil price rising to four times the level in 2000. The cost of producing the marginal
barrel of oil is increasing. According to Goldman Sachs, over the past two years no major new
project has come onstream below $70/bbl, with most in the $80–100/bbl range.


Free cashflow

Companies also have to maintain other expectations alongside capital expenditure.
Shareholders have become used to dividends. Goldman Sachs estimated in April 2013 that over
half of the listed oil companies need oil prices above $120/bbl to be cashflow neutral. In the first
quarter of 2014, Brent was hovering around the $110/bbl mark. This has resulted in analysts asking
whether something has to give. It is unsustainable for many companies to maintain both capex and
dividends unless the oil price continues to rise.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 08 May 2014, 23:59:31

I think their point is, if it comes to a political decision to limit the "total amount of oil the world can afford to burn without warming the planet to unsafe levels", that amount of oil can be produced more cheaply from Iraq, etc. So the more expensive oil will not be produced.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 09 May 2014, 06:07:47

Again the thread is about the financial soundness of oil patch investment. Financial damage from climate change is a very valid discussion. There are a number of threads on the site where that can be expanded upon. But now back the original subject of this thread. There's also an even a more simple view: every $ of oil patch investment is at risk. I've only drilled three "sure shot can't miss" deals in my career...and two of them missed. Really. LOL. IMHO the biggest risk the oil patch investments face today is a global recession that drops the price of oil. And there's nothing we can do to prevent that from happening so we just have to live with that risk.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Pops » Fri 09 May 2014, 07:22:21

ROCKMAN wrote:We were discussing the returns to the Big Oil shareholders as a result of the huge capex outlays. We weren't discussing climate change.

ROCK, the quotes in the OP were from "Carbon Tracker" AKA Jeremy Legget AKA Solar Century a PV panel manufacturer.

The real discussion here is about a PR campaign to convince people to not invest in IOCs. The argument is the companies will be prevented from extracting the reserves they have on the books because of limits imposed by government to stop global warming.

The unstated alternative investment seems obvious, PV.

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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 09 May 2014, 11:20:52

The breakeven price includes an Internal Rate ofReturn (IRR) of 10%, (where NPV=0), but does not allow any room for increased costs, or a fall in oil prices. It may also be insufficient to contribute to making a company cashflow neutral once it has covered other commitments such as dividends. Rystad therefore expect that an oil company would allow another $15 when making investment decisions, depending on its portfolio of projects. This means that a $60 breakeven project would bedependent on assuming a $75 Brent oil price.


What a load of crap. Breakeven price does not take into account ROR simply because the concept of breakeven means at what price does total expenditures get offset by total revenues net of all royalties, taxes and expenses. I know this given I had to calculate so many times over the years.
The way the banks calculate this is not single point (ie what happens today) but via a look at NPV of the project which means they use the banks price forecasts and cost forecasts. I’ve done that calculation as well and one uses historical average rise in costs to project into the future, at the same time there is a standard price deck used by most investment banks that offsets some of the rise in costs. Rate of return can fall out of this equation but it is not assumed in break even analysis. So to be blunt this person hasn’t a clue what they are talking about.


According to Bloomberg data, capital expenditure by the largest oil companies is now five times the level it was in 2000. Yet the production of the companies has barely increased. This continuing fall in capex productivity has been masked by the annual average Brent oil price rising to four times the level in 2000. The cost of producing the marginal barrel of oil is increasing. According to Goldman Sachs, over the past two years no major new project has come onstream below $70/bbl, with most in the $80–100/bbl range.


Please find a point in the last two years when oil (either Brent or WTI) was below $70 bbl? Of course no new project came on at that price…..it never was that price. What an absurd statement.

Companies also have to maintain other expectations alongside capital expenditure. Shareholders have become used to dividends. Goldman Sachs estimated in April 2013 that over half of the listed oil companies need oil prices above $120/bbl to be cashflow neutral.


Again easy to test….WTI has been well below $120/bbl and the vast majority of oil companies have been reporting profits not losses. It is a simple task to go to Sedar or SEC and look at the balance sheet for any company that are regularly filed. They always report profit before and after dividends. Many companies try to keep only enough profit to fund their next years capex requirements and dividend everything else to shareholders as this is most tax efficient. But they are not taking losses after dividends at prices in the $90 -$100 range.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 09 May 2014, 15:21:38

Which is exactly why I, first, don't use low ball bids. And , second, I add a "contingency cost" to every project of 10% to 30%. The actual % I use is based upon my sense of risk. We send the cost including the contingency (the AFE...Authorization For Expendature) to each partner who is the required to sign the AFE to acknowledge the estimated cost + cost contingency overrun.

If I think the risk is high I pad the hell of my estimate so all the partners/investors understand just how nasty it may turn out. Even the sh*t sometimes happens beyond my conservative nature. As we always say: there's the plan and then there's what actually happen.

Can't handle risk? Dump your money in a low rate CD.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 09 May 2014, 19:49:28

The conclusion of the Carbon Tracker report can be summarized in the highlighted portion below:

Report: Oil industry may waste $1.1 trillion on expensive exploration

The oil industry could waste up to $1.1 trillion in the next decade on unnecessarily expensive drilling projects, such as those in the Arctic and deep water, according to a new study.

That’s the total that oil explorers would have to spend through 2025 on projects that would require oil prices of at least $95 a barrel just to break even, Bloomberg News reported, citing a study by the Carbon Tracker Initiative.

Oil companies do not need to spend that money, because the amount of oil that the world could consume without warming the planet to dangerous levels is available from less expensive places that can be developed for $75 a barrel, the study said.

Carbon Tracker estimated that Brazil-based Petroleo Brasileiro would spend up to $83 billion through 2025 on the oil drilling that costs $95 a barrel. ExxonMobil Corp.’s spending on the expensive deposits could reach $73 million and Russia-based Rosneft could pay up to $70 billion.

“Investors should require the majors to demonstrate improved capital discipline, to deliver shareholder value, not just volume of production,” James Leaton, Carbon Tracker’s research director, told Bloomberg.

The uneconomic exploration could reach $21 trillion in value by 2050, Carbon Tracker said.


thehill

I have copied recommendations to investors from their report:

Recommendations for investors
Given there is $1.1trillion of capex at stake for the private oil sector over the next decade, this needs to be a priority for stewards of capital. We would suggest the following for asset owners and managers to consider:

1. Understand the exposure of your portfolio/fund to the upper end of the carbon cost curve, and articulate how this risk is being managed.
2. Identify the companies with the majority of capex earmarked for high cost projects.
3. Focus engagement on projects requiring $95/bbl market prices as a starting point.
4. Set thresholds for exposure to projects at the high end of the cost curve for portfolio companies to adhere to.
5. Make it known to company management that you are seeking value not volume.
6. Ensure remuneration policy at companies is consistent with shareholder return objectives not just rewarding reserves replacement or spending capital.
7. Require improved disclosure of demand and price assumptions underpinning capex strategy.
8. Support transparency of company exposure to the cost curve and impairment trigger points, eg through annual publication of sensitivity analysis/stress tests to oil price.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 09 May 2014, 20:13:51

Pstar not sure what you were trying to say with the post from 2008 Suncor (they took over Petrocanada) regarding Fort Hills. That project is still in the development stages which is when capex exposure is high and returns zero. First production isn't expected until 2017. But their current forecast which would have taken into account early stage cost over-runs is sitting at $84,000 / flowing barrel which is smack dab in the middle of the range for heavy oil projects in Alberta. Note that they are the operator but Total holds 40% and Teck Resources hold about 30%. If it were a bad story their partners would have backed out as has happened in other projects recently. They are now committed to some fairly serious expenditures I think around $70 billion or so.

I can think of lots of projects that came in over budget.....but I can think of a lot more that were under budget and many more that preformed better than the initial prediction. If you want to be negative there are a host of spending disasters, mostly avoidable in my mind and I can point you to them. On the other hand there are many more successful projects. It is the long term average that needs to be looked at.

I kind of chuckle when I see a lot of the nonsense out there in this regard. You would be led to believe that oil companies sit around in a room and pull a number out of the air when they are in the planning phase. My experience is the exact opposite. I suspect I've collectively lost many years of my life sitting in planning meetings revisiting cost projections on a line by line basis for the upteenth time. If you were continuously wrong in your projections your job would be gone pretty quickly. I've sat in way too many meetings in years gone by with the CEO yelling at the COO or EVP Engineering for instantaneous cost assessment sitting slightly above projection to think that anyone wouldn't put all effort into getting the numbers right.
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 09 May 2014, 20:16:42

Oil companies do not need to spend that money, because the amount of oil that the world could consume without warming the planet to dangerous levels is available from less expensive places that can be developed for $75 a barrel, the study said.


Where pray tell is that? I guess you haven't been paying attention to the notion of Peak Oil?
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Re: Oil Industry Risks $1.1 Trillion of Investor Cash

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 09 May 2014, 22:02:29

"“Investors should require the majors to demonstrate improved capital discipline". First, unless they own a significant amount of stock as a fund might share holders don't have the right to require anything from the board of a public company. If one doesn't like how any public company is run they simply don't buy the stock or they sell what they do own. Someone that owns $10 million in ExxonMobil stock owns exactly 0.0022% of the company. Which means any demands they think the have the right to make are meaningless. If one didn't like or comes to dislike how XOM is run they aren't required to invest in the company.

Doc - I'll admit I also get the giggles now when folks are blasting oil patch companies for, essentially, not making a satisfactory rate of return. I have no doubt that many here who have taken that tact were screaming their heads of in the past about obscene profits and demanding "windfall profit taxes". Adjusted for inflation oil is selling for more than it has in over 35 years. So why aren't they complaining about those
excessive profits"? I also have to smile if this lasts angle of attack really understand what they are saying: the oil companies are not making enough profit to be sustainable. Simple solutions: give the oil patch even bigger tax breaks. After all, the US still consumes a huge amount of oil compared to other developed countries. Our economy today is very dependent on oil/NG. The only right thing to do then (following the logic of those yelling that the oil patch isn't getting a decent return on its investments) is to reduce our tax burden making those expensive plays more viable for us to chase. And thus the investors, for whom this crowd is so concerned about, will see better returns.

There you go: I solved the problem for them...tax holiday for ExxonMobil et al. That should make these complainers happy. LOL.
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