[Sixstrings]

This weak and timid President talks big... and does nothing: A devastating attack on Obama by a top Washington insider

Clark S. Judge believes Obama's reaction to the tragedy was 'disconnected'
Immediately 'reverted to script' to praise his administration
Former adviser to Ronald Reagan says it confirms 'chaos' of foreign policy

At a political event in Wilmington, Delaware, on Thursday, President Obama devoted only 40 seconds to the shooting down of the Malaysian airline, his first statement to the world following the news.
His emotionless reference to the attack as ‘a terrible tragedy’ seemed disconnected from the horrific moment, particularly as he immediately reverted to script to praise his administration and criticise Republicans.

It was a far cry from President Reagan’s 1983 fierce denunciation of the Soviet shooting down of a Korean airliner as a ‘crime against humanity’.

...

The US failure to follow through in Syria gave the Russian president confidence that he could move with impunity.

SOON he was picking a fight with Ukraine. Like the scene in The Godfather – when, at his child’s baptism, Michael Corleone renounces the devil as the camera cuts back and forth to his men eliminating rival gangsters – Putin, before global television cameras, watched the opening ceremonies of the Sochi Olympics as Russian troops began movements preparatory to seizing Crimea.

This week, in the skies over Ukraine, we saw the consequences of the recklessness that the Russian godfather’s probing has unleashed.

Putin was not the only one to detect opportunity in American indecision. China stepped up its probes in the East and South China Seas. In the Middle East, with the US military presence drawn down nearly to zero in Iraq and soon Afghanistan, an army of ruthless fanatics gestating unnoticed in Syria’s east saw the chance to break out of national boundaries and within a few weeks occupied much of western and central Iraq.
Why has so much of the global order come apart so fast?

For the same reason that, as a friend reports, on the streets of San Salvador those who will smuggle your child to the Rio Grande have been securing an unprecedented volume of sign-ups. When asked about the chances of the child staying in America once the border is crossed, they tell parents: ‘It has never been easier.’

Now the word on weakness is everywhere, even the poorest barrios of Central America.

Since the Second World War, when the US and Britain have been of one mind, liberal values have been secure and even advanced. When either has lost its sense of direction, neither has been nearly so effective.
The great danger in being the anchor to the global order is that when we lose our way the general peace itself is threatened.

This is just what we are seeing in theatre after theatre around the world. Perhaps it is time for a key ally like Prime Minister David Cameron to have a friendly talk with the President.

It is not just American interests that a flailing White House threatens. It is that of peoples everywhere.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2698685/This-weak-timid-President-talks-big-does-A-devastating-attack-Obama-Washington-insider.html

Well that about sums it up:

Like the scene in The Godfather – when, at his child’s baptism, Michael Corleone renounces the devil as the camera cuts back and forth to his men eliminating rival gangsters – Putin, before global television cameras, watched the opening ceremonies of the Sochi Olympics as Russian troops began movements preparatory to seizing Crimea.[/b]

[b]This week, in the skies over Ukraine, we saw the consequences of the recklessness that the Russian godfather’s probing has unleashed.

This is everything I've been saying all along. Weakness on Syria led to weakness in Ukraine, everything's been downhill from there, and Putin wouldn't have moved on Ukraine in the first place if there were a George Bush in charge.

I'm not being partisan -- I'm a registered Democrat -- but this is just the darn truth, Obama is WORSE than a Jimmy Carter. OBAMA CAN'T EVEN SUMMON UP ANY EMOTION when Russians shoot a airliner out of the sky.

Democracy is at stake, the West is at stake, our values our at stake, 60 years of fighting the cold war all for naught, the world falling apart -- there is no US president anymore. Who is John Galt?

He just reads a script like it's some humdrum natural disaster, another tornado or whatever, and then he's off to a fundraiser.

2016 can't come soon enough, good grief.

[americandream]

So as far as you are concerned, the Russians are done and dusted?

[Ibon]

2016 can't come soon enough, good grief.

What we are witnessing is the weaning of America off it's imperial pedestal, something that will unfold way beyond 2016.

As long as you continue your nostalgia for a strong and noble America leading the world you will have to come to terms with either weak and timid or incompetent.

You might find yourself one day nostalgic for Obama's weakness and timidity the next time we get embroiled playing tough guy on the world stage.

21st century geopolitics is not about applying fond memories of Reagan to the global situation we have today.

Sometimes the myopia of the political discussion on this site is as breathtakingly stupid as what we see in the media at large.

Folks, we are missing the forest for the trees......

[Beery1]

Let's not get too excited - it's the Daily Mail.

[Plantagenet]

What is he supposed to do Six. Invade?

Invading is really a dumb idea. Lets please try to be a bit more intelligent in our discussion about this.

Its pretty obvious now that if Obama had sent US arms to Ukraine, or shared intelligence, or even just sent them some unarmed drones to overfly eastern Urkaine after Russia invaded crimea, Ukraine would have been far better able to stop Russia from infiltrating eastern Ukraine to stir up trouble and shoot down passenger jets.

But Obama decided to send Ukraine...MREs. A weak and timid move that did nothing to deter Russia's ability to destabilize eastern Ukraine, move in Russian special force and powerful anti-aircraft missile launchers. The pro-Russians have murdered and intimidated the local population, and now they've shot down a civilian passenger jet.

Obama's weakness and timidity has encouraged this Russian aggression. From the beginning with the big red "reset" button farce, Obama has totally misjudged Putin and the Russians. The only "reset" that has resulted from obama's stupidity and bungling is a more aggressive Russia now engaged in a hot war in Ukraine and a new cold war between the USA and Russia.

[Lore]

Maybe it's just time to let the Europeans take the lead. After all they have more at stake then the US does.

[timmac]

Maybe it's just time to let the Europeans take the lead. After all they have more at stake then the US does.

For once I am on the same page as you, this is Europe's problem, we have problems here and now in America with debt, borders, gays, libtards and commies, we need to close our borders and only help Israel and clean our house by deporting those that don't fit.

[AgentR11]

Its pretty obvious now that if Obama had sent US arms to Ukraine, or shared intelligence, or even just sent them some unarmed drones to overfly eastern Urkaine after Russia invaded crimea, Ukraine would have been far better able to stop Russia from infiltrating eastern Ukraine to stir up trouble and shoot down passenger jets.

Errr.. They had plenty of gear, what they didn't have was training and organization. They folded in the month or two after the Crimea fell to Russia; they abandoned lots of good gear and ran for home. Maybe the gesture would have been useful in some way, but the infiltration wasn't avoidable; and a militia force doesn't need that many trained regulars to get them to perform as well as a militia can.

What was Gen. Washington's wish of the militia? Give me two shots, then run... something like that. One aimed shot is actually quite a potent tool, as long as you don't overestimate what your militia can do; they can serve you well.

The pro-Russians have murdered and intimidated the local population

All sides have done just that. One noted official, claimed that he would kill a hundred pro-Russians for every pro-Kiev that was killed. Basically, the president of Ukraine has ordered the execution of now approaching 30,000 people. I'd call that intimidation on a pretty massive scale.

This isn't good guy vs bad guy. This is bad guy vs bad guy. We should give both sides as many guns and bullets as they can stand to carry, order sane people to stay away, and then come back in a couple years to give the last few humans standing a medal, and then put their farms to use producing wheat for the sane part of Europe.

Obama's weakness and timidity has encouraged this Russian aggression.

I think Russia's actions are actually independent of whatever our president might do, short of ordering combat against Russian regular forces on Russian territory. That'd cause a deviation from plan for Putin, but otherwise, the prize is simply too valuable.

Yall are really over estimating the power of the US in instances where we are unwilling to place US forces in harms way.

new cold war between the USA and Russia.

Sure its new? I'm not. I think we got played while the bad guy was on his knees from the blow that was the breakup of the USSR. We didn't finish them. They got back up, and surprise surprise, they aren't friendly. In some ways they are weaker than before, but in others,they are much stronger, in particular, I think it made them realize that territory can be as much a liability as an asset; and that China is not interested in their territory, they are interested in purchasing, for usable, non-US controlled currency, productive output from Russia.

So weirdly enough, I have to suggest Obama's doing more or less ok; I do wish he'd be a little careful with the outrage language if we aren't going to engage Russia in open war.

[Plantagenet]

...new cold war between the USA and Russia.

Sure its new? I'm not.

You'd better review your history. The original "cold war" was between the USSR and the USA. The USA won that war by driving the USSR into economic collapse. The USSR collapsed and disintegrated in 1991.

Now, 23 years later, Obama has bumbled into a new Cold War with the Russian Federation. This Cold War is not the same as the 1950-1991 cold war, anymore than WWI and WWII 21 years later were the same war.


A new Cold War? Sure, bro go ahead and throw down---I'm flexible now that I'm re-elected---and may the best man win!

[AgentR11]

You'd better review your history. The original "cold war" was between the USSR and the USA. The USA won that war by driving the USSR into economic collapse. The USSR collapsed and disintegrated in 1991.

If you read what I wrote, you would know that was my POINT. We mistook a knockdown, for a knockout. The USSR economically collapsed because they chose foolishly to engage in a race with us. (something about drinking your own coolaid) . Winning a race with us was never necessary to secure their system and territory; just detonating all their own nukes on their own territory would be enough to wreck the Northern Hemisphere, and more than enough of a threat to keep us from taking strategically critical infrastructure (eg Crimea) from them.. Had they been more rational about gradually discarding Eastern Europe beginning in the 70s, they'd be doing their annoying communist thing in Moscow to this day.

Putin isn't making the same mistake. Obama, as much as I dislike the twit, is being rational in not pursuing a course that leads to armed conflict; but rather, seeking to limit the influence that Russia has in our sphere of influence. I think its a mistaken goal, but it is rational.

What bothers me is this ridiculous drumbeat that's looking to "punish" Russia. You can punish a country that is import dependent for necessities easily enough, but Russia is a net exporter of both fossil energy, and food calories. This doesn't work like punishing Iran or NK; instead, it forces the target to look for other customers; and this particular target has two very large and hungry consumer markets, right nearby; China and India; both of whom have essentially told Russia that they'll buy anything and everything that Russia can deliver, and in the case of China, they'll help build and run the mechanism of delivery. (albeit perhaps, denominated in a domestic, or regional currency).

So yeah, if avoiding war with Russia means the president is seen as timid; I'm all for timid at this point in time.

[PrestonSturges]

Reagan? OK, as long as someone wants to mention that shit-stain Reagan and shooting down commuter flights, let's have a little history lesson

In 1988 the United States shot down an Iranian commuter flight that was on its flight path, killing 290 people. The US refused to apologize and gave the missile ship's captain a medal for his tour of duty. We did eventually pay a $62,000,000 financial settlements to the families.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[Plantagenet]

You'd better review your history. The original "cold war" was between the USSR and the USA. The USA won that war by driving the USSR into economic collapse. The USSR collapsed and disintegrated in 1991.

We mistook a knockdown, for a knockout. The USSR economically collapsed because they chose foolishly to engage in a race with us.

When a country collapses and disintegrates, thats pretty much a knockout. In fact its was much more than a knockout--- The USSR is dead and gone----vanished into the dustbin of history.

What bothers me is this ridiculous drumbeat that's looking to "punish" Russia.... it forces the target to look for other customers; and this particular target has two very large and hungry consumer markets, right nearby; China and India; both of whom have essentially told Russia that they'll buy anything and everything that Russia can deliver,

AND of course Obama is the main person calling for more sanctions on Russia, both from the US and the EU. Did you notice that Obama announced another set of new Russia sanctions the day before the shoot-down---you can bet the Russian were pretty pissed off about Obama's new sanctions.

Look---I basically agree with you---Obama's short-sighted push for more and more sanctions on Russia is driving Russia into China's arms. I disagree however that Obama's weakness and timidity is averting war----on the contrary I think Obama's weakness is a big factor encouraging Putin to first invade Crimea and now send special forces and weapons and anti-aircraft missiles across the border into Ukraine to destabilize eastern Ukraine.

[AgentR11]

When a country collapses and disintegrates, thats pretty much a knockout. In fact its was much more than a knockout--- The USSR is dead and gone----vanished into the dustbin of history.

Kinda disagree. Russia existed, inside the wrapping of the USSR; the USSR collapsed, Russia remained. Ask yourself, was Putin some revolutionary conqueror of the USSR, or was he a component of that state structure, just as he remains today, its head.

USSR shed most of its worthless baggage, lost a few critical components, and lost its liability of having to support far flung client states with direct subsidies. What the USSR was, without that baggage, is Russia.

Putin was there, and witnessed the collapse of that exterior wrapping, was in a position to study and debate it with other insiders, and participate in the reconstitution. The chance of him being led foolishly away from Russia's national interest, is slim to none.

We're going to have to learn to accept a Russia which understands what it requires to survive.

[Ibon]

I just wanted to say for the record that I take back my comment further up thread accusing this thread of banal posts comparing it the media at large. The posts since then have been insightful and appreciated.

[americandream]

The country (USSR) may have disappeared, but Marx's legacy still stands. Capitalism will globalise and in the process trigger crises that WILL see humankind confronted with stark options. Whether we rise (or are able) to the occasion is anyone's guess.

However, Obama is the new face of territorial management. With the advent of globalisation, the days of nationalist style management is surplus to the requirements of capital.

[AgentR11]

Well.. the requirements of capital in this context are simple enough, Ukraine less Crimea as a body is required by capital participants for its agricultural and energy requirements; the existing population in that Eastern section, and its legacy, broken factories is a liability, best handled with a bulldozer. For capital participants based in Moscow, Crimea is an asset worth enough to rationalize nuking Berlin and enduring whatever short and medium term inconveniences it costs to keep.

That said, I'm not sure this line or reasoning really tells us much. The pols babble nationalism and religion today, as they have for ages; they rile up the masses, and hope their blob of violent intentioned morons look more dangerous than the other guys blob of violent intentioned morons.

The question of the thread is a press statement that states Obama is timid. Does a territorial management style require 'timid'? Or is it that the default progression on the Ukraine situation serves the interests represented and protected by Obama? For capital that is interested in the coal, oil, gas, and grain of Ukraine; things seem to be going pretty darn well; for other capital participants, they managed to pickup a trillion or so dollars worth of potential offshore oil and an awesome port facility with a bit of banner waving and chest thumping.

Ukraine got divy-ed.
Western capital got the piece they wanted.
Eastern capital got the piece they wanted.

Problem of course.... still a few tens of millions of really riled up morons lusting for violence...

I still prefer describing and plucking apart the events in terms of National politics. As much as you'd like to think that the use of "We" is inappropriate; with the output of modern capital, I get to be strong, fast, lots to think about, lots to create, fairly healthy, and extremely comfortable. Without that output, I'd be in intense pain within about a month, and dead probably within a year. So, I kinda like those guys, even if you think I'm being used simply to enhance their profit... I'm good with that, what the global capitalists give me in exchange for doing as I do is more than bountiful compensation. Now.. I think I need to do another coffee press, grind those arabica beans sent from Malaysia, in my hand grinder made here, to put in my French made press, then fill it with water kept at boiling by my Japanese made water boiler thing; and finally pour that delicious coffee into the Wedgewood cup from England that accompanies me as I do as I do. [Yes, I'm *SO* being taken advantage of /sarcasm].

WOOOOOT WOOOOOOT!! Go team capital! lol

ps.. Obama, even if you are a twit, don't ****** it up.

[Sixstrings]

You know, you guys can say what you want to about "mainstream," but I'm sitting here listening to the former US ambassador to Russia (on CNN) and he makes sense to me.

He says Putin has been experimenting in east Ukraine and now his games have caused 300 innocent uninvolved people to lose their lives.

He says if we don't do anything about Putin, he'll just keep it up, in Ukraine and other places.

So y'all can be tinfoil and read Dimitry Orlov books and watch RT and be an expat abroad or whatever it is you want to do, but I believe the "mainstream" on this one.

I've watched this thing from the start, and the "mainstream" is right.

I'm not *influenced* by mainstream, I've been AHEAD of the mainstream. By six months, by a year. So I'm not doin' too bad here. I'm the one that started these Ukraine threads from the moment those "pro west protests in Ukraine" began.

I knew this would be a world-changing event, and would change Europe and Russia and have long term implications.

Others on this forum were with the Maidan people at the beginning, but a lot of you disappeared now that their dictator is gone and they elected a new president in a fair election and they're making real reforms (it's not all BS) and signed with the EU -- you other guys are gone now, but you know Ukraine had its revolution but it has to be defended.

Was listening to Democratic senator Diane Feinstein on CNN too, she is stepping up pressure on Obama, saying "the world needs the President's attention on this."

Which is the topic of this thread, that the President has been AWOL and just reading the teleprompter and sounding like this is just some tornado or other humdrum natural disaster.

I agree with Plant's posts in this thread, 100%, so I don't need to say more.

Except I would recommend specific actions:

Ukraine is a military conflict. Sanctions aren't really the answer, unless you're out to topple the Russian government and if that's the aim then you're going to need some troops rolled out anyway so you may as well get them into Ukraine now.

I don't think the sanctions were a good idea, really, we have this massive gargantuan world-dominating military for a reason. Let's use it, when called for. *Troops in Ukraine would have prevented Putin from invading in the first place.* So stop screwin' around with sanctions, this is a military problem not a banking problem.

What the US should do now: pressure Europe for tougher sanctions, and make closer ties with Ukraine with foreign aid and arms deals and if it were up to me there'd be a defensive pact and some US troops and air force in there. / rush them into NATO.

Sanctions alone can't work unless you've gone for the thermonuclear option of toppling the Putin regime, and that right there is pretty dangerous, using our military in Ukraine and forgetting about the sanctions is solving the problem head-on and directly, and is actually less dangerous than trying to overthrow Putin in Russia with sanctions.

We don't need to destabilize and overthrow Russia. We just needed to defend Ukraine, that calls for troops and air force not sanctions.