[DesuMaiden]

There are too many stupid people on this planet using up too much stuff, way too quickly. Unless we can stop the population from increasing, we are screwed. In fact, even if we didn't increase our population, we are still screwed when we run out of fossil fuels, because without fossil fuels we simply cannot feed the current population let alone the increased population in another 20 to 30 years.

Humanity is screwed. If you still have hope for humanity, you are delusional. Humanity has no hope. There will be a massive decline in human population some time in the near future. Once fossil fuels become too scarce for us to use, the food production will go into a massive decline, resulting in a famine killing billions of people.

Like Michael Ruppert said, the only reason 7 billion people exist is because of fossil fuels. That's it. Take the fossil fuels away and the population must also go away. There has never been a case where the population exponentially increases, due to favorable conditions, without an exponential decrease in population afterwards, whether it is a population of bacteria in a petri dish or a population of caribou in the arctic. When you take the favorable conditions out of the equation, the population will exponentially decrease because the population has increased beyond the carrying capacity of the environment.

The human population exponentially increased during the past 100 years in large part due to fossil fuels integrated into our food production. By integrating fossil fuels into our food production, we were able to exponentially increase our food production. This exponential increase in food production allowed us to exponentially increase our population. Without fossil fuels, our food production will exponentially decrease resulting in an exponential decrease in population. It is that simple.

So how can anyone have hope for humanity realizing that there will be a massive apocalypse in the near future, where most of the world's population will die off? I believe the population will die off from 7 to 8 billion people to only about 1 to 2 billion people. There is no hope for humanity. It is that simple. Most of us will cease to exist in the next couple of decades when fossil fuels become too scarce for us to use.

[GHung]

Quit worrying so much about humanity and that "Most of us will cease to exist in the next couple of decades..."

The only response you have much control over is your own. Get yourself out of the "most of us" category. That's about the best you can hope to do.

[GregT]

Absolutely agree with Ghung.

Stop worrying about humanity and take care of yourself. Use your knowledge to your advantage. There are plenty of options available to you, if you choose to exercise them.

[DesuMaiden]

Quit worrying so much about humanity and that "Most of us will cease to exist in the next couple of decades..."

The only response you have much control over is your own. Get yourself out of the "most of us" category. That's about the best you can hope to do.

I am doing everything within my power to make sure that I'm one of the 1 to 2 billion people to survive the collapse of industrialized civilization. Some people are unwilling to accept the fact that there is simply too many people on this planet, and most of these people will not survive the collapse of industrialized civilization when fossil fuels become too scarce. We have become too dependent on fossil fuels. When fossil fuels become too scarce, our population will exponentially decrease. The best you can do is improve your chances of survival in a post fossil fuel world.

[JuanP]

Desu, I agree with almost everything you said. I think collapse will be slower than you do, but other than that, we mostly agree.
You said "In fact, even if we didn't increase our population, we are still screwed when we run out of fossil fuels, because without fossil fuels we simply cannot feed the current population let alone the increased population in another 20 to 30 years."
Even if we didn't run out of fossil fuels, we would still destroy the planet. I don't think how we destroy ourselves is that important. I am certain we will make the biosphere inhabitable, it's only a matter of when and how. That certainty is what is important to me.
Focus on saving yourself and your loved ones. Forget the masses, they can't and won't be saved. You are lucky you are in Canada, it is a good place to be for what's coming. Enjoy your trip to China!

[DesuMaiden]

Desu, I agree with almost everything you said. I think collapse will be slower than you do, but other than that, we mostly agree.
You said "In fact, even if we didn't increase our population, we are still screwed when we run out of fossil fuels, because without fossil fuels we simply cannot feed the current population let alone the increased population in another 20 to 30 years."
Even if we didn't run out of fossil fuels, we would still destroy the planet. I don't think how we destroy ourselves is that important. I am certain we will make the biosphere inhabitable, it's only a matter of when and how. That certainty is what is important to me.
Focus on saving yourself and your loved ones. Forget the masses, they can't and won't be saved. You are lucky you are in Canada, it is a good place to be for what's coming. Enjoy your trip to China!

I tell my friends about the collapse, and nobody will believe me. They think everything is fine and the future is bright. I think the only people who believe me about the collapse is my family. I just hope me and my family survive the collapse of industrialized civilization.

[Shaved Monkey]

Humanity will hit a sustainable carrying capacity.

[DesuMaiden]

Humanity will hit a sustainable carrying capacity.

More like it will drop down to a sustainable carrying capacity. We have far exceeded our sustainable carrying capacity. Far exceeded it. There is no way this planet can support 7 billion people in the long-term because the main reason they even exist is because of fossil fuels. If you take the fossil fuels away, the population must also go away.

Modern industrialized agriculture is heavily dependent on fossil fuels. Without fertilizers made of natural gas, the soil is a worthless junkie. And without these natural-gas derived fertilizers, our soil is worthless, and cannot produce any food on it. Also pesticides are made of oil. Let's not forget about farm equipment for plowing, planting, harvesting and transporting food all require oil. Take away fossil fuels, and our food productivity will drastically decrease because every calorie of food consumed in the industrialized world requires 7 to 10 calories of fossil fuel energy to create. Without fossil fuels, our food production will drastically decrease. Thus without fossil fuels, we can only support a population that is only a fraction the size of the current population.

[Shaved Monkey]

Currently we can hold this many people in a few decades we will be able to hold less.
We will hit a sustainable carrying capacity ....in the future

[jesus_of_suburbia]

You're spending way too much time on this site. Go outside or something.

[KrellEnergySource]

Right now, there are people in dire circumstances that are saints in their ability to value others and are living lives filled with love and service to others. On the downward slope, I'd much rather strive to approach life in that frame of mind than solely focusing on maintaining my own comfort and "survival". So I retain hope...just hope for a meaningful existence, not for a rosy personal future.

[Sixstrings]

I tell my friends about the collapse, and nobody will believe me. They think everything is fine and the future is bright. I think the only people who believe me about the collapse is my family. I just hope me and my family survive the collapse of industrialized civilization.

Look, I don't like to see doomer stuff become a religion.

This community already went all through that. Everyone got a little panicky and It's All Ending Right Now Tomorrow during the Bush years oil spike and that's when I joined this forum but actually I was interested in economics.

But back in those days there was a forum called LATOC too and a lot of "megadoom" and sky is falling and all of that. And "there's no hope," "there's no future."

I don't want to be rude to you but that stuff was all like 6 years ago, there actually is no peak oil emergency now. We have people on this forum sounding as doomy as you but it's about climate change now. I don't think there are any peak oil fast crashers anymore.

I just don't like to see unwarranted hysteria.

I mean, what the hell is "collapse," anyway?

Don't Ukrainians deal with "collapse" all the darn time? Are we just a bunch of big babies, worrying about "collapse" when even if we Westerners ever do "collapse" we are still living better than the entire South American continent, or God forbid Liberia, and look at India -- *700 million of those people do not even have a toilet to use and must go in the street*.

Let's get real. Are we a bunch of big babies anyway, worried about "collapse."

If you live in the West, of course you and your friends "have a future." If somebody's smart and has initiative then there's even more opportunity in the midst of chaos.

You said you "want to be the next michael ruppert" so what is this about are you just latching onto all this for that sake?

Or are you GENUINELY distressed and upset about peak oil and collapse? If it's the latter, then talk to the old timers on this forum and let them calm ya down a bit, there's no good reason for anyone to pull their hair out being a peak oil fast crasher. Slow crash, ok, or if you want to worry about the climate or ebola then I understand that, but LATOC peak oil fast crash was 6 years ago.

[Sixstrings]

I actually wonder more about "peak jobs" than peak oil.

Was watching Anthony Bourdain's China travelogue the other night. He had dinner with a Chinese economist. Now, this is a CNN travel show and it's not doomer or anything, and my ears really perked up by something this economist said.

He's worried about peak jobs, globally.

Automation and greater efficiency making human labor redundant. And Bourdain asks him something like, "well what will people do," and the economist says "nobody knows, we'll see."

And Desu, I watched your China cars news report and I think it was there I saw how they build their highways. Apparently in China, anything that can be done with manual labor, they do it that way, for the jobs. They're very much concerned about employment.

I think China and all of us will have energy going forward, the conundrum will be *employment*. Automation, ever greater efficiency, robots, ever better AI to where software can do what humans used to, and then AI that can be *creative* too, and then the singularity.

That's all going to happen. Right now in the US we have robots being used for surgery, and for now there is a surgeon at the controls but the next step is no surgeon at all. The automation is everywhere, and increasing, at all levels of employment. I go to Walmart and it's self checkout, now, and the computer takes my cash and makes change for me and I'm scanning the stuff myself -- that store used to employee a lot of cashiers, now those jobs are gone.

They still have stock clerks. But how long before that's done by robots? Amazon's warehouses are already mostly robotic.

I think that will be the interesting question in the future, not energy, but rather employment.

[RepublicanfromEngland]

I had the similar view of this subject in my first year of knowing about it. All you can do is just take your moments in reality, and try and prepare if you can, if you can't, just try and appreciate what is good about our part of the world. Afterall none of our ancestors had this.

Ofcourse, you are twenty four, and I'm twenty five. So we're the young few who are aware of this problem.

[DesuMaiden]

The collapse is going to happen whether you like it or not. I believe the collapse will start in 2020, and it will be complete by the 2030s. I believe a population crash will happen in the 2030s when global oil production will no longer be able to meet global oil demand.