[DesuMaiden]

I heard it was because in Europe they were running out of wood, so they decided to burn fossil fuels to make up for the lack of wood. They were using coal at first as a substitute for wood. Coal was burned to produce heat and later electricity. I know that the Industrial Revolution wouldn't have started if it wasn't for the fact that mankind started using fossil fuels. So why did people start burning fossil fuels for energy?

[dolanbaker]

The earliest phases of the industrial revolution were water powered. The principal driver was the mechanisation of weaving and some other manufacturing processed and all the factories were originally built next to fast flowing rivers that could be diverted via water wheels to drive the machinery.

The first (that I know of) use of coal for energy rather than heat was for pumping.
The earliest steam engines were developed to pump water out of the coal mines as flooding limited the amount of coal that could be extracted before the mines were abandoned due to flooding.

Once the steam engine was developed, other uses were soon found for it eventually it was used for locomotion and the rest is history.

[GregT]

Coal use by the Chinese can be traced back to 3400 BC. They used it to smelt copper as early as 1000 BC. People have been burning coal ever since they found out that it could be burned. It is even believed that cavemen burned coal for heat.

[DesuMaiden]

Coal use by the Chinese can be traced back to 3400 BC. They used it to smelt copper as early as 1000 BC. People have been burning coal ever since they found out that it could be burned. It is even believed that cavemen burned coal for heat.

My bad. I didn't think people started using coal until the late 18th century. I didn't know that people have been using coal for much longer than the beginning of the industrial revolution.

[ChilPhil1986]

Regarding American oil derivatives specifically, the discovery of kerosene distillation was what started the first oil rushes in the latter half of the 19th century. Most people had been using wood, coal, and hard-to-acquire whale oil for lighting and heat. Kerosene provided the first cheap alternative energy source brought the Rockefellars to power.

[Subjectivist]

Regarding American oil derivatives specifically, the discovery of kerosene distillation was what started the first oil rushes in the latter half of the 19th century. Most people had been using wood, coal, and hard-to-acquire whale oil for lighting and heat. Kerosene provided the first cheap alternative energy source brought the Rockefellars to power.

The whale oil thing is actually a myth. In the early to mid 1800's the most common lamp fuel was a blend of distilled alcohol and turpentine made from distilled pine wood. The alcohol made plenty of heat but the flame was invisible, the turpentine the as added to make the flame yellow. Whale oil gave your home a lovely smell when burned in lamps so it was used by the wealthy and on special occasions by the middle class. When the USA broke into Civil War an alcohol tax was passed to fund it and lamp spirits became very expensive. Kerosene, originally distilled from coal, became cheaper than 'lamp spirits' even though it smelled much worse than whale oil. Demand for Kerosene shot way up and those nifty new petroleum wells that had been drilled for lubricants right before the war became very profitable. It took a couple decades before more kerosene was made from petroleum than coal, in most of the 1800's it was called coal oil with good reason.

[Shaved Monkey]

I remember the smell of kerosene heaters when we went to visit our poorer relatives in the 60s
http://a4.img.bidorbuy.co.za/image/uplo ... 08_026.JPG
its amazing more people didnt die

[Strummer]

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/09/ ... times.html

[dolanbaker]

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/09/peat-and-coal-fossil-fuels-in-pre-industrial-times.html

Interesting that the article concentrates on the low countries, we still use turf in commercial quantities here.
http://www.bordnamona.ie/ (the company is diversifying into biomass and alternative energy)
http://youtu.be/hMbTpJYXMy0 this is how we get out turf.
This morning I filled up the turf boiler and now the kids are having a shower that was heated using turf.

[Tanada]

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/09/peat-and-coal-fossil-fuels-in-pre-industrial-times.html

Interesting that the article concentrates on the low countries, we still use turf in commercial quantities here.
http://www.bordnamona.ie/ (the company is diversifying into biomass and alternative energy)
http://youtu.be/hMbTpJYXMy0 this is how we get out turf.
This morning I filled up the turf boiler and now the kids are having a shower that was heated using turf.

Took me a minute to translate, what you call turf we call peat. Not much peat gets burned in the USA, too much wood, coal, oil and natural gas available. How long does it take for the 'turf' to dry so you can burn it efficiently? I used to work as a groundskeeper so when you say Turf I automatically picture sod being laid to cover a bare spot.

http://youtu.be/CL3gcFg668E

A regular strip is rolled and stacked, the surface area unrolled is two meters long and half a meter wide.

[dolanbaker]

After it's cut and extruded onto the ground we usually leave it a couple of weeks then go and turn or stack it (some people turn it and leave it for another week) to dry the other side. Then we leave it another month before throwing it into a trailer to take home.

The timings are totally weather dependent and in a good year it's possible to get two or even three cuts.

[JuanP]

Desu, IMO, humans will burn anything that burns, even shit! And we will continue burning everything that burns until we completely run out of available combustible materials. The only thing that could keep us from burning stuff would be the total lack of combustible materials. We love burning stuff, man. It is in our genes, we are all budding pyromaniacs.

We will burn the biosphere to total destruction. People who think humans will make it through this thing are mostly people who have kids and can't handle the truth.

"Total destruction is the only solution
And there ain't no use
No one can stop it now
I say, there is no use
Nobody can stop it now!"

Bob Marley

[dolanbaker]

Using dried dung as a fuel has been going on since time began and is still common in parts of Africa.

[dolanbaker]

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/09/peat-and-coal-fossil-fuels-in-pre-industrial-times.html

Interesting that the article concentrates on the low countries, we still use turf in commercial quantities here.
http://www.bordnamona.ie/ (the company is diversifying into biomass and alternative energy)
http://youtu.be/hMbTpJYXMy0 this is how we get out turf.
This morning I filled up the turf boiler and now the kids are having a shower that was heated using turf.

Another video, but this one is of the machines that cut our turf http://youtu.be/StQ7bGoRF8w

[ChilPhil1986]

Regarding American oil derivatives specifically, the discovery of kerosene distillation was what started the first oil rushes in the latter half of the 19th century. Most people had been using wood, coal, and hard-to-acquire whale oil for lighting and heat. Kerosene provided the first cheap alternative energy source brought the Rockefellars to power.

The whale oil thing is actually a myth. In the early to mid 1800's the most common lamp fuel was a blend of distilled alcohol and turpentine made from distilled pine wood. The alcohol made plenty of heat but the flame was invisible, the turpentine the as added to make the flame yellow. Whale oil gave your home a lovely smell when burned in lamps so it was used by the wealthy and on special occasions by the middle class. When the USA broke into Civil War an alcohol tax was passed to fund it and lamp spirits became very expensive. Kerosene, originally distilled from coal, became cheaper than 'lamp spirits' even though it smelled much worse than whale oil. Demand for Kerosene shot way up and those nifty new petroleum wells that had been drilled for lubricants right before the war became very profitable. It took a couple decades before more kerosene was made from petroleum than coal, in most of the 1800's it was called coal oil with good reason.

You mean the History channel fed me a myth?

Serves me right, I guess.

[Subjectivist]

Regarding American oil derivatives specifically, the discovery of kerosene distillation was what started the first oil rushes in the latter half of the 19th century. Most people had been using wood, coal, and hard-to-acquire whale oil for lighting and heat. Kerosene provided the first cheap alternative energy source brought the Rockefellars to power.

The whale oil thing is actually a myth. In the early to mid 1800's the most common lamp fuel was a blend of distilled alcohol and turpentine made from distilled pine wood. The alcohol made plenty of heat but the flame was invisible, the turpentine the as added to make the flame yellow. Whale oil gave your home a lovely smell when burned in lamps so it was used by the wealthy and on special occasions by the middle class. When the USA broke into Civil War an alcohol tax was passed to fund it and lamp spirits became very expensive. Kerosene, originally distilled from coal, became cheaper than 'lamp spirits' even though it smelled much worse than whale oil. Demand for Kerosene shot way up and those nifty new petroleum wells that had been drilled for lubricants right before the war became very profitable. It took a couple decades before more kerosene was made from petroleum than coal, in most of the 1800's it was called coal oil with good reason.

You mean the History channel fed me a myth?

Serves me right, I guess.

Primitive lighting sources are kind of a hobby of mine. I make my own candles and have played around with making oil lamps. In the process I ended up studying the history of lighting before electricity. I was shocked to learn the real history of the whale oil/kerosene lamp.

Realistically most of the literate people of the era were of the upper middle class and elite. This has lead to an information bias, most of the written records are about what life was like for them, not the average Joe/Jane. The used expensive fuel in fancy lamps, so that is what the mention in diaries and works of literature. They also made up around 5 percent of the total population.

On the other hand if you look at the amount of whale oil sold in any city in Europe or North America it quickly becomes clear how limited the supply was compared to the lighting needs of the population.

[ChilPhil1986]

This is interesting. I was hoping to stumble on a lighting and heating source that wasn't fossil fuel dependent yet avoided the necessity of hacking down a ton of lumber every winter. I am of the conviction that we will need to be looking to the history books to find ways to supply the benefits petroleum and coal bring us at present. I will be looking for this alcohol/pine tree recipe you speak of.

[Subjectivist]

This is interesting. I am was hoping to stumble on a lighting and heating source that wasn't fossil fuel dependent yet avoided the necessity of hacking down a ton of lumber every winter. I am of the conviction that we will need to be looking to the history books to find ways to supply the benefits petroleum and coal bring us at present. I will be looking for this alcohol/pine tree recipe you speak of.

You should find this interesting then,

Chapter IX. Alcohol As A Source Of Light, Heat, And Motive Power. Alcohol As Illuminant

Tho use of alcohol for lighting purposes dates from the earlier part of the nineteenth century. Its non-luminous flame was rendered luminous by an admixture of terpenes or other hydrocarbons. Turpentine was chiefly employed for the purpose, but camphor, coal-tar naphtha, and shale oil were also used. The product was variously known as camphene or camphine, gasogene, 'camphorated gas," and ' burning fluid "; and previously to the introduction of petroleum for lighting purposes, about the year 1860, large quantities of alcohol were employed in making these illuminating mixtures.

The names "camphene" and "camphine" were also applied to rectified turpentine, which itself was used for burning. Turpentine oil alone, however, burns with a flame which, though luminous, is very smoky. When mixed with about four parts of alcohol, turpentine gives a flame which is still luminous, whilst the smokiness is much diminished. According to R. F. Herrick1 such a mixture was introduced by Webb into the United States in the year 1833, but the weakness of the only alcohol obtainable by him caused some difficulties with the product. Illuminants of like character were also being produced in Great Britain and France at about the same time, or a little earlier. A patent granted to Ludersdorf of Berlin in the year 1834 describes a mixture made with 95 per cent. alcohol, of which four volumes were used with one volume of rectified spirits of turpentine. The fluid was burned in a lamp provided with a wick, and the lamp was lighted by igniting a little alcohol placed in a cup surrounding the wick tube.

http://chestofbooks.com/food/beverages/ ... GDyCd08KrU#ixzz3Ige6JaZ8

[tom_s2]

desumaiden:

I heard it was because in Europe they were running out of wood, so they decided to burn fossil fuels to make up for the lack of wood. They were using coal at first as a substitute for wood.

Many early steam engines ran off wood, not coal. Part of early industrialism ran off wood.

For example, the famous steamboats of the Mississippi river used wood as fuel, not coal, because the boats didn't have to carry their own fuel that way. When the boat was running out of fuel, it would stop by the banks of the Mississippi (river boats are flat-bottomed and so could approach the banks) and then someone would get out and chop down a tree for fuel. This led to deforestation near the banks of the Mississippi.

The British started switching from wood to coal because Britain was deforested. Britain used be covered in dense forests but those were mostly gone by the end of the 19th century.

There have been small uses of fossil fuels since antiquity. For example, the Persians used to collect oil from natural seeps and use it for various things.

-Tom S