[vox_mundi]

Creditors use new devices to put squeeze on debtors
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2 ... prime.html

The New York Times revealed that many borrowers with low credit ratings have to endure more than just sky-high interest rates if they want to drive a car off the lot. Now they must also allow the repo man to ride with them at all times.

This repo man isn’t a flesh-and-blood person occupying one of the car’s seats, though. He’s a technological extension of the lender — called a starter interrupt device —installed in the vehicles of subprime borrowers. The device allows lenders to track and monitor the location of the vehicle — both in real time and over time — and provides them with the ability to remotely shut off vehicles if, say, the borrower falls behind on payments (sometimes by just a few days) or drives outside an approved area.

There is no escaping debt collectors who can, with the push of a button on their smartphones, disable your car until you cough up payment. As one collector told the Times, “I have disabled a car while I was shopping at Walmart.” The Times provided a number of stories from people who had their cars surprisingly stop working because lenders switched them off for one reason or another. They range from startling — one woman was temporarily stranded at a gas station with her children — to mind-boggling: Another woman’s car shut off while she was driving, “sending her careening across a three-lane Las Vegas highway.”


http://www.movieviral.com/2010/02/25/aw ... -repo-men/

The political climate has clearly shifted in favor of creditors, which can demand near absolute certainty that they can extract payment from debtors. As starter-disabling devices proliferate, that certainty is becoming more important than your certainty that the car in front of you isn’t going to suddenly decelerate and veer off the road. Or that a once mobile vehicle idling at a stoplight won’t become an immobile hunk of metal blocking the road.

The goal is to cut out those spots of inefficiency where the disadvantaged might have been able to momentarily enjoy a brief respite from the usual struggles of life — whether it’s floating a check for a few days or having some wiggle room with a loan payment’s due date. We know, abstractly, that wealth is the shadow side of debt. The car starter interrupter heightens the tension, making the lender’s life more secure by making the borrower’s life more precarious.

[dinopello]

The fact that most people today must finance an appliance as expensive as an automobile simply to survive is the real crime in my opinion.

[Shaved Monkey]

Sad times ahead for the hand to mouth brigade.

Its good to see the French falling out of love with their cars,this will become a global trend eventually.
Pretty hard when you have crap public transport though.

France falls out of love with the car
For an increasing number of French drivers, car ownership is now seen as a burden and a vehicle as merely a service

In France the average age at which people buy their first new car is close to 55. Meanwhile the under-30s account for less than 10% of customers.
A typical carpooler is 33.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... s-downturn

[Peak_Yeast]

If people need to finance a car - then perhaps people should consider buying something small and second-hand that can be paid in cash.

I would NEVER buy a new car and never one with less efficiency than 20km/liter - It makes more sense to burn the money to me - and its not because i couldnt buy a new car in cash.

Actually the only car that is attractive to me is the LUPO 3L - since its cheap, durable and efficient.

But I know the majority of people seems to prioritize the lizard brains when it wants to have something big and shiny that they think impresses (lol) way above reason and financial security.

[JohnnyOnTheFarm]

The fact that most people today must finance an appliance as expensive as an automobile simply to survive is the real crime in my opinion.

There is no "must". We all make choices, and some of those choices make strange bedfellows.

Rationalizing the American "drive till you qualify" routine just being one of them.

Sounds to me like creditors are being creative with making sure that mobile collateral is less...."mobile". Certainly if the only assurance I had that you were going to pay me back was something you could play keep away with, I might be interested in not making it easy for you.

[eugene]

What is wrong with repoing a car that's not being paid for? Over the last yrs, I have observed a definite sympathy for people who don't pay their bills. And no, I haven't any sympathy for those who buy what they can't afford. Several yrs ago, a cousin purchased a new truck which he had zero ability to pay for. When asked why he did it, his response was it'll take them 6 months to repossess it and I have a new truck to drive for six months. There are many aspects to this issue and sympathizing with the folks who won't/can't pay is simply BS. I've spent a lifetime of buying used whatever to fit my income.

[JohnnyOnTheFarm]

What is wrong with repoing a car that's not being paid for?

Nothing. But as the Occupy movement taught America, we are raising a generation of younger folks who believe that they should get something for nothing, and I assume some are affronted that creditors are making it less easy to get the "something".

Over the last yrs, I have observed a definite sympathy for people who don't pay their bills. And no, I haven't any sympathy for those who buy what they can't afford. Several yrs ago, a cousin purchased a new truck which he had zero ability to pay for. When asked why he did it, his response was it'll take them 6 months to repossess it and I have a new truck to drive for six months. There are many aspects to this issue and sympathizing with the folks who won't/can't pay is simply BS. I've spent a lifetime of buying used whatever to fit my income.

I like new myself. In an age of cheap money, why not?

[Loki]

A rather devious device. Should be able to easily remove it with a basic wrench set.

Bad debt is what brought us the Great Recession. Poor people buying too much car was nothing compared to the middle class buying too much house, or the 1%'s leveraged investments.



Perhaps we should attach a "kill switch" to the heart of every gambler on Wall Street.

[noobtube]

It still amazes me when people say they NEED A NEW CAR as if the world exists to provide them with a new car. If they don't get it, what happens? Do they lie down and die?

Americans have such a sense of undeserved self-importance, it is rather amazing (and pathetic) to behold.

Anyone who defends these American corrupt corporations and failed banks, is a worthless scumbag, in my book.

What is wrong with repoing a car that's not being paid for?

Nothing. But as the Occupy movement taught America, we are raising a generation of younger folks who believe that they should get something for nothing, and I assume some are affronted that creditors are making it less easy to get the "something".

There was thing called the financial collapse of 2008. It is where failed banks got bailed out of their debts so they could continue creating more debtors, the same way that caused them to fail the first time around. I think people learned that the system only cares about taking care of one group (the banks) at the expense of everyone else (sort of like any other dictatorship).

[Karle]

Two years ago I had no money for even the cheapeast used car. What did I do?

Instead of walking to the next bank, I walked to a garage sale and bought me a used bicycle for $30. With that, and walking when I needed an umbrella, I went whereever I needed to go for about 12 months. In that period for 8 months I never went outside a radius of 3 kilometres.

You know what the problem was?

None. I never had a more relaxed time in my live, and I also had some money for the occassional beer.

Now I have a car again, and though I don't use it normally my family demands to go here and go there, just because the car is available.

During the time without a car they did not even think about "going here or going there". But I am in the trap now. There is no way to dispose of that car out there in the driveway

[Subjectivist]

Those times in my life when I had a poor credit rating I made darn sure I didn't miss a payment because that is the best and fastest way to restore your credit. If I ever buy a car with one of these kill switches on it I will already be doing my best to make the payment. These really punish those less willing to budget and live in their budget, not the general person getting a car loan.

As an aside it must make repo work a whole lot easier, wait till the car is in a parking lot at a superstore or mall and kill it there where you can show up after closing and hook up to take it whever the bank wants it stored.

[Paulo1]

re: "called a starter interrupt device —installed in the vehicles of subprime borrowers."

I'm with the creditors on this one. Can't afford a new car? Then you have no business buying one. When I was a young father with two small kids we drove a piece of shit Pinto, (which I loved, by the way). When I had to work away my wife held down the fort with a 'God Forbid", stroller that had a basket slung underneath for groceries. She walked to the store for supplies. We drove used crap forever but paid for a home free and clear which eventually set me up to retire at 57. My truck is now 28 years old with just under 300,000 km on the meter. I use it maybe once a week and might or might not license it as we do town runs in a Yaris.

Both my kids have auto loans and mortgages, now. I give them one admonishment then shut my mouth. We all know that 'new car smell' lasts about as long as the first payment withdrawal occurs.

Of course, people are absolutely inundated with car adds, everywhere. May Bob Dylan burn in hell for doing a car commercial. I haven't seen it but heard about it. Although, I will say my wife looks pretty hot in her Yaris The blue matches her eyes. The efficiencies match our bank account.

Paulo

Paulo

[Henriksson]

I'd just like to point out to the moralists in this thread that the vast majority of the debts are about used cars, which apparently wasn't obvious enough.

Banks have to risk when they lend money - that's part of the standard argument for why interest rates exist. If they can expect payment from borrowers no matter how non-credible they are, where is the risk factor? Obviously society draws the line somewhere someone could lend money to a kid who wants a floating castle in the sky, but they could not expect help from the law in getting the money back.

[dinopello]

As an aside it must make repo work a whole lot easier

Yep, less manpower required, less repo men employment, yet another job category eliminated.

[noobtube]

I'd just like to point out to the moralists in this thread that the vast majority of the debts are about used cars, which apparently wasn't obvious enough.

Banks have to risk when they lend money - that's part of the standard argument for why interest rates exist. If they can expect payment from borrowers no matter how non-credible they are, where is the risk factor? Obviously society draws the line somewhere someone could lend money to a kid who wants a floating castle in the sky, but they could not expect help from the law in getting the money back.

You do understand that banks do not take risks when they "make" a "loan" to anyone?

Banks do not "lend" and have never lent to anyone, anything. At least not in the United States, banking has never worked that way.

Banks take your promise to repay as collateral and then "create" the "money" out of thin air, and call it a "loan" to you.

This is how ALL bank loans work. Banks risk NOTHING other than their reputation with other banks. The entire American banking (and now world) system is one big cartel.

It is amazing how ignorant Americans are about how their own system works.

But, I suppose it makes it easier for Americans to get on their hind legs and proclaim how they are better than everyone else and how their "exceptionalism" entitles them to the good life (at everyone else's expense).

[Herr Meier]

This is how ALL bank loans work. Banks risk NOTHING other than their reputation with other banks.

Oh my God. It is true what everybody says. You are indeed stupid. Are you American?

[Keith_McClary]

You do understand that banks do not take risks when they "make" a "loan" to anyone?

Banks do not "lend" and have never lent to anyone, anything. At least not in the United States, banking has never worked that way.

Banks take your promise to repay as collateral and then "create" the "money" out of thin air, and call it a "loan" to you.

This is how ALL bank loans work. Banks risk NOTHING other than their reputation with other banks.

They don't even do that - they bundle the loans and sell them to pension funds.

[roccman]

I just got paid from a creditor to drop my case AND they erased the debt they said I owed.

spend a little time reading here:

http://www.debtorboards.com/

then wait for the check to come to you.

[vox_mundi]

debtorboards.com got flagged as infective, caution.

[roccman]

debtorboards.com got flagged as infective, caution.

worked for me