[Sixstrings]

Obama to act unilaterally on immigration, irking Republicans

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama will outline a plan on Thursday to relax U.S. immigration policy for as many as 5 million people, bypassing Congress and angering Republicans.

U.S. Representative Paul Ryan, the leading Republican voice on fiscal policy and a potential 2016 presidential candidate, called the plan a "partisan bomb" while a spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner branded the president “Emperor Obama” for acting unilaterally.

The White House said Obama will deliver a televised speech at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday (0100 GMT Friday) laying out the plan followed by a trip to Las Vegas on Friday. Nevada is home to the highest proportion of undocumented immigrants.

Frustrated by years of congressional inaction on what most in Washington agree is a broken immigration system, Obama said he is now prepared to use his executive authority.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/obama-act-unilaterally-immigration-irking-republicans-000509564.html

This is a sudden surprising move. I wonder what the real story is.

Did:

a) GOP leaders tell Obama that there won't be an immigration deal

or

b) Did they tell him they really want a deal but the base won't allow it, and secretly they gave him a wink nod to go ahead and do this exec order?

or

c) was this a BOLD political move, pre-empting R's and not even giving them a chance, but just swooshing in with the exec order and claiming victory -- and latino votes, for 2016?

My opinion?

GOP's got no room to complain much, they never sealed that border either -- D's have always wanted latino votes, and R business elite has always wanted the cheap cheap labor, and it's always been that way, and everything else is kabuki theater.

And at the end of the day -- there's like 11 million "illegals" here now. You can't just have a slave class of people with no papers. That can't go on forever. They were allowed in to start with, so I guess that's water under the bridge and something had to be done.

Having said that.. is this exec order excessive.. does it set a bad precedent.. is this the dawn of imperial presidency? Governance by presidential fiat? How is that different from Russia, and other dictatorships?

I'm not a lawyer, but is there any cause the SCOTUS could find to step in on this and stop the executive order?

Just good government theory wise, our system needs a *little* flexibility like this, between the branches. But at some point, executive orders become ridiculous, it's outright legislating from the oval office. But then the courts do that too quite often, legislating from the bench. It's a dance throughout our history, sometimes one branch taking over when another branch just isn't doing its job.

It usually balances out.

You just don't want it going too far though, governance by executive order -- Congress is supposed to be doing that. And they can't just be do-nothings all the time either, because the government has to keep running, things need addressed.

My real opinion: I think the GOP leadership wink nodded on this. Their business base, and their strategic thinkers (need latino votes) have pushed for a deal but the base has pushed so hard against it. I can see Boehner and McConnel saying "look guys, ok you go ahead and do this because we can't get our base to go along, so you do this and we'll yell a bit but it'll be for show."

I just can't see the Obama admin doing such a bold move, unless something else is going on here, behind the scenes.

[Sixstrings]

Oh this is hilarious, Obama USED to say he couldn't do what he's getting ready to do:

“I know some here wish that I could just bypass Congress and change the law myself. But that’s not how democracy works. See, democracy is hard. But it’s right. Changing our laws means doing the hard work of changing minds and changing votes, one by one.”

22 Times President Obama Said He Couldn’t Ignore or Create His Own Immigration Law http://www.speaker.gov/general/22-times-president-obama-said-he-couldn-t-ignore-or-create-his-own-immigration-law

ABC Grills Obama on Executive Order Flip-Flop

Karl agreed, noting that Obama "has repeatedly said in some very colorful ways that he doesn't have power to do it." The report then featured a February 2013 clip of the President admitting, "I'm the President of the United States. I'm not the emperor of the United States. My job is to execute laws that are passed."
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2014/11/19/shock-abc-grills-obama-executive-order-flip-flop

I guess he was against it, before he was for it.

[enkidu]

President Obama to side-step the untenable US immigration situation by declaring the current state of affairs "legal".

If you are already swamped in immigrants why not win some votes by ending the persecution of them?

[Ayoob]

Remember that we should have picked our own damn cotton in the first place. Look what that got us. You want cheap labor on the farm? I can't imagine what the ultimate unintended consequences of this are going to be.

The last time I checked, I believe the average 4-person household saved about $200/year on food that involved the discounted labor of illegal aliens. Woo! $200!

[Timo]

Obama's actions will legalize ZERO of the 11 million immigrants who are currently in this country, and contributing billions of dollars to our national economy. He simply will temporarily refrain from deporting certain immigrants who fall under a limited set of conditions. That is all Obama did, and that is also all Reagan did, and all Bush II did by their exact use that that same executive action. Condemn Obama for his actions, and you're forcing yourself to condemn the same actions of Republican heros. But, not a peep from the current group of complainers when Reagan and Bush did the exact same thing.

Generalizations in such comments reveals much about the intelligence (or lack thereof) of that commentor.

[Plantagenet]

Obama's actions will legalize ZERO of the 11 million immigrants who are currently in this country, and contributing billions of dollars to our national economy. He simply will temporarily refrain from deporting certain immigrants who fall under a limited set of conditions. That is all Obama did...

Thats actually not true.

For instance, one effect of Obama's change to the law is that millions of illegal aliens will now be eligible to collect social security and medicare benefits, as well as other federal benefits

WaPo: illegal-immigrants-can-receive-social-security-medicare-under-obama-action

This is a big change. Both social security and Medicare already aren't funded to fully pay out benefits to all their recipients in coming years. By adding millions of illegal aliens to the pool of people eligible for social security and medicare, Obama has done his bit to make the existing financial problems in these programs even worse.


Thanks to Obama, millions of illegal aliens are now eligible to collect SS and Medicare benefits

[Lore]

They get to come out of the closet and pay taxes too. Which means they will be on the payroll with all the deductions for these programs.

Would you rather they pay them and the benefit goes to corporations?

[Plantagenet]

1. Timo made the false claim that Obama's change in immigration had no other effects. Obviously it does----for instance Obama's decree has a significant effect on entitlements by making millions of illegal aliens eligible for these benefits that previously were restricted to US citizens.

2. I'd like to see obama do something that helps fix the problems in Medicare and Social Security rather than making them worse. Adding millions of recipients to SS and Medicare programs that already are financially strapped just makes things worse.

[Lore]

1. Timo made the false claim that Obama's change in immigration had no other effects. Obviously it does----for instance Obama's decree has a significant effect on entitlements by making millions of illegal aliens eligible for these benefits that previously were restricted to US citizens.

Can't speak for Timo, but I doub't that was what he meant

As for foreign workers in the US.

Most foreign workers in the United States are covered under the U.S. Social Security program and can potentially qualify for disability benefits, even if they are not citizens or permanent residents. Federal law generally requires that all workers pay Social Security taxes, and therefore they be covered under SSDI for services performed in the United States. This is true even if they are nonresident aliens or employees who work here for short periods.
http://www.disabilitysecrets.com/get-di ... tizen.html

By now paying their fair share of taxes they can only strengthen the economy.

2. I'd like to see obama do something that helps fix the problems in Medicare and Social Security rather than making them worse. Adding millions of recipients to SS and Medicare programs that already are financially strapped just makes things worse.

Except, as I mentioned, they are actually now having to pay into the system. Obama is helping to eliminate the under the table pay for work.

[Ayoob]

Illegal aliens are already on Medicare. News flash: There are quite a few illegal aliens who come to California to get treatment for kidney disease. Certain doctors are known to help them get on Medicare so they can charge $250K/year for dialysis. These same illegal aliens get their nursing home care for free (to them). Grand total: $400K/year.

http://kaiserhealthnews.org/news/medica ... ency-care/
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2008/ ... mmigrants/

[dinopello]

Does anyone know an illegal alien? Just curious I heard there are 17 million so it seems like we should all know a few the only one I ever met for sure was an irish bartender.

[Loki]

Does anyone know an illegal alien? Just curious I heard there are 17 million so it seems like we should all know a few the only one I ever met for sure was an irish bartender.

I've worked with a dozen or so Mexicans the last few years, and two of my three coworkers at the moment are Mexican (from Guerrero and Mexicali). None of them have mentioned their legal status. According to Pew, fully half of Mexican nationals in Oregon are here illegally.

My boss is English, he claims to have a green card but lately I've been tempted to call La Migra on him

I had a couple Canadian neighbors at my last place, neither of them mentioned their legal status, though I'm pretty sure one of them got a quick marriage to stay in the US.

[Loki]

Obama's actions will legalize ZERO of the 11 million immigrants who are currently in this country, and contributing billions of dollars to our national economy. He simply will temporarily refrain from deporting certain immigrants who fall under a limited set of conditions. That is all Obama did

As Plant, said, you are incorrect.

From the Whitehouse.gov page on the subject:

Eligible immigrants will have the opportunity to request temporary relief from deportation if they come forward and pass criminal and national security background checks and pay a fee. They will also be eligible for work authorization and must start paying their fair share of taxes

Notice that part in red? Kinda important.

Here's the local ag paper's take on it:

Immigration order unlikely to help ag, labor experts say

“It most likely would be bad for agriculture as industries situated just above agriculture on the jobs ladder — higher pay, better conditions, reduced seasonality — will actively recruit … ultimately taking more farmworkers away from an already short supply,” said Lee Wicker, deputy director of the North Carolina Growers Association in Vass, N.C.

The farm labor market is “bad and deteriorating rapidly” because fewer illegals are crossing the border and those already here are finding more appealing jobs, Wicker said....

Jeff Stone, executive director of the Oregon Association of Nurseries in Wilsonville, Ore., said the anticipated executive order would be “a step in the right direction,” but falls short.

The Oregon Association of Nurseries has been a vigorous advocate for amnesty and further dilution of the labor pool in order to keep wages down in the horticultural industry. One of their pet pieces of legislation---driver "cards" in Oregon specifically for illegals---was recently overwhelmingly rejected by the voters.