[onlooker]

well I put this topic on this forum though I am not sure it belongs here. Just am curious is it just me that thinks that the car culture is the epitome of craziness. First of all look at the burning of limited FF fuels, could we not have come up with a better use for fossil fuels such as much more expansive and better public transportation systems. Second, nowdays, with the traffic jams look how much time people are wasting on the road. Third those who have a long commute or drive frequently are exposed to toxic air. Not to mention car accidents which inflict pain and suffering on victims and their families. But alas even more crazy is that China with their huge population has really become mass purchasers of cars. Where is the logic in that. Fossil fuels are running out, their traffic jams already exceed ours. Also, their air quality already bad is certainly not being improved with the widespread use of cars. So, when I am on the road here in Northeast and see all these cars I get dizzy with you could say disgust. So alien to the natural world and yet so pervasive are cars. Replies appreciated.

[Gorm]

Yes, the situation is crazy and really bad in so many regards. Of course, its easier to see that now when we have the resoults. Still, on the brigthside, the focus on cars has seen its peak. People in very many places around the globe are shifting attitudes, cars are no longer wiewd as a way to freedom and a good life as default. Again, attitudes shifts from one place to another, but the trend in Europe is down regarding cars and has been so for quite some time. Thats great

[onlooker]

unfortunately China as I said has taken up the slack. Europe is ahead of the curve in many things. Wish i lived in Europe and not in the States.

[dohboi]

I think the whole car culture thing developed so that early oil men (Rockefellers, etc.) could make a profit on different grades of oil than diesel, originally the main desired product. Basically, it was meant to be a huge sponge to get rid of lower grade oil derivatives. This was aided by various illegal actions to dismantle various highly efficient trolly and streetcar systems throughout the country (the most extensive of which had been in LA), and of course by the American ideal of rugged independence and freedom to travel (we are a country of immigrants/travelers, after all).

Many films have been made about this transformation/degradation of the US transportation system, but I'm too lazy and busy right now to hunt them down. Maybe other who have more time on their hands at the moment could...??

[dinopello]

Cars are fun and sexy. They fit America with our proclivity to think about freedom and are compatible with the large distances between places in the US. That's what started it, then we built our living arrangements to require them and are now dependent upon them for the most part and due to a kind of overpopulation (aka traffic) it's not even fun and sexy any more and it's extremely expensive to maintain and run the roads, bridges, parking garages, traffic signals and all the private expense of gas, maintenance, damage repair, medical costs due to accidents etc. It's quite a quandary. And many think if only the cars could drive themselves and be powered with batteries it would be fun and sexy again.

A typical "freeway" (in no sense is it free)


Everyone is trying to go somewhere that they aren't. What's wrong with where they are ?

[Strummer]

Many films have been made about this transformation/degradation of the US transportation system, but I'm too lazy and busy right now to hunt them down. Maybe other who have more time on their hands at the moment could...??

[yellowcanoe]

The car became popular because people placed a high value on personal transportation that could take them directly to their destination at whatever time they wished to leave. At the time that mass production of cars started, allowing the average person to purchase a car, we had a much better public transportation system than we do now. In urban areas there were well developed electric street car lines and almost every community had passenger rail service. The road system was not at all built to handle cars and driving out into the country was quite often a real adventure, especially if rain turned the roads to mud. Early cars were nowhere near as reliable as present day vehicles so it was highly desirable for the driver to be able to perform basic maintenance and repairs. Despite these drawbacks there was a tremendous growth in automobile ownership in the 1920's.

I certainly don't see car ownership as looney. Vehicle selection is another matter -- too many people driving around in a big pickup truck or SUV when a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle would do the job just as well.

[onlooker]

Great image Dino, pretty overwhelming if you ask me. Yes the costs of the car culture have been many and are many to individuals and to countries as a whole. But it seems to have vast appeal still ie. China
http://img3.cache.netease.com/photo/000 ... AN0001.jpg (copy and paste)

[Paulo1]

re: "So, when I am on the road here in Northeast and see all these cars I get dizzy with you could say disgust. "

'On the road' presumes you are driving as well. Today I have to take one of my dogs to the vet, by car. We are all part of the problem. Just saw Lincoln last night and was interested to see the transport by horse and horse + buggy, steamship, etc. Obviously, I knew that was the case but it was interesting to see it again. While I abslolutely loathe the car culture and the nightmare commercials on tv about 'discovering your identity' with a new vehicle, I would sure hate to go back to horse days. We have a Yaris which makes sense due to our distance from town as EV doesn't have the range. For work and property related stuff I run an 86 toyota 4X4, which these days seems to flash up every two weeks or so, usually to haul lumber on a box rack. For scooting around our area I use a $250 costco bike, and yesterday resurrected a '79 trail 90 which I had in storage for 5 years and plan to use for longer jaunts around the valley as needed. primo with 2300 km on it and pretty nice paint. We walk a great deal and really enjoy it.

I will be pleased to see car culture shrink in accordance to incomes. But with 6 year interest free financing available for those who pine for a new identity, I won't hold my breath.

[onlooker]

well nice to see a fellow car hater . But yes at least in the US it is hard to not have a car.

[basil_hayden]

Freedom didn't cause cars to come about; you could always ride your horse rather than walk.

Cars came about because people got tired of horse manure in the streets, a sanitary issue.

And yes, dohboi is correct - something had to come about to use all of that waste product produced from crude oil that was not lamp kerosene or diesel fuel. Gasoline is that waste product.

[Gorm]

Bicycles are way more efficient then horses for personal transport, horses will not make a comeback as a mean for personal transportation.

[dohboi]

[Gorm]

Bicycles are way more efficient then horses for personal transport, horses will not make a comeback as a mean for personal transportation.

Gorm, bikes aren't a solution to the peak-oil predicament either. (Perhaps for folks living in the city but for the rest of us in suburban America it is an impossibility.) Slow and plodding but effective, horses can deal with heavy loads, steep inclines, and frigid winters. And they find their own food (grass within reason, still must supplement with oats).

Bikes are way more relible and consumes nothing. Horses need lots of food and water. Bikes gets you further in a day and safer then a horse. I have had horses, bikes are way less of a hassle in many ways

[dohboi]

Since when is it required that we have all the answers before we point out problems?

Really, for lots of non-poor Americans, flying is the far greater part of their footprints. For local transport, we need to have a wide variety of options.

But, sorry, this morning all I got is platitudes for ya!

[onlooker]

I guess what a lot of us here are pointing out is it would have been better if we never went the car way. But now its a little to late, like it or not we need the buggers. In fact, i venture to say in retrospect it may have been better to not have developed this monstrous global economy which has been devouring the planet, anyway do not get me started
Oh and Dohboi keep going with the platitudes I have always liked hearing them from you.