[Plantagenet]

Another policeman who killed a black man has just been released without charges in NYC. Looks like those evil liberals in New York are racists too.

Now the anti-police demonstrators in New York have hit upon a cunning plan to protest. They are going to attack the Christmas tree lighting ceremony at Rockefeller Center

anti-police demonstrators target Christmas tree lights in NYC

I certainly hope this idea doesn't spread. It was moronic enough when hundreds of people were shouting "Hands up---don't shoot" while they were looting and burning stores in Ferguson.

Now the next stage in this so-called protest movement is going to be attacking Christmas trees in NYC?


Grrr...No Justice, no Christmas tree lights!!!......Grrrr!

[wildbourgman]

Well let's get this started, what caused Eric Garner to die? Who do you blame? What's the root cause for this death?

I view this event much differently than I do the Ferguson case. What do you think?

[PrestonSturges]

They had 5 or 6 people do a dog pile on him, suffocating him. It probably was not the choke hold anyway. I've heard it may be that if you put a fat person face down and pile a bunch of people on him, their abdominal fat gets pushed up against the diaphragm, compressing the heart and lungs.

If you have a half dozen people, you can restrain someone by holding their arms and legs. You don't pile them all on their chest and then (usually) have someone put their knee on the suspect's neck.

Here's five cops killing a guy in front of his wife and kids after his daughter threw a tantrum in a movie theater parking lot. You can watch the guy die while his wife and daughter watch.
http://youtu.be/Y6ptuQfV4q0
Five big guys pile on him, one guy with most of his weight on his neck, pepper spray him and he's dead within seconds. As usual there's a cop yelling "Stop resisting" when the guy is either already dead or convulsing as he dies. That's probably part of it too, someone is literally in their death throes and the cops double down on the beating.

[PrestonSturges]

Efforts at Reform Repeatedly Stalled
Sunday, July 1, 2001
A dozen years ago, frustration with decades of unfettered behavior by the Prince George's County police boiled over when an unarmed African immigrant named Gregory Habib was tackled and crushed to death by officers who had stopped his truck for blocking traffic in Langley Park.

[PrestonSturges]

Family Sues Police in Death Of Daughter
By SEAN GARDINER
April 2, 2012 10:25 p.m. ET
Lawyers for a mentally ill Queens woman are claiming she suffocated after four police officers were pressing on her back while trying to handcuff her so they could take her to the hospital two weeks ago.

[PrestonSturges]

Retarded kid suffocated for refusing to leave theater without his caretaker. This guy obviously has Down's Syndrome, but local cops decided a brutal takedown was in order

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00722.html

Where is the public outrage over the death of Robert Ethan Saylor, killed in January while being taken into police custody in Frederick for the crimes of petty larceny and, perhaps, disorderly conduct?

Saylor, 26, had Down syndrome, a genetic defect that can cause cognitive deficiencies, poor judgment, impulsive behavior and other issues. Unlike many other disorders, it is associated with recognizable physical traits, especially unique facial features. Photographs show Saylor to have had the classic “Down” look.

He had gone to the movies to watch “Zero Dark Thirty,” a charged film about the raid and assassination of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan by Navy SEALs. Like many others who have seen this film, Saylor wanted to watch it again, so he remained in his seat when it was over. His health aide had stepped out of the theater temporarily.

When Saylor refused to leave the theater, a conflict arose, and three off-duty Frederick County sheriff’s deputies — working as freelance security guards at the shopping center where the theater is located — intervened. According to an account in The Post attributed to police, Saylor cursed at and struck the officers, and they used handcuffs to restrain him. After he was taken out of the theater, Saylor wound up on the ground, where he showed signs of distress. He was pronounced dead at a hospital a short time later. The medical examiner’s office has determined the cause of death as asphyxia and classified the case as a homicide.

[PrestonSturges]

http://old.post-gazette.com/localnews/2 ... 0305p5.asp

Expert: Altoona man was suffocated by police
Mount Oliver arrest subject of inquest
Wednesday, March 05, 2003

By Jim McKinnon, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

A forensic pathologist testified yesterday that an Altoona man suffocated from the force of police officers pressing on his back and restraining his arms during a violent arrest Dec. 21 at the Mount Oliver fire hall.

Dr. Shaun Ladham of the Allegheny County coroner's office, testifying at the conclusion of an open inquest into the death of Charles Dixon, said Dixon died of positional and mechanical asphyxia. He said he will review transcripts and other evidence before formally declaring the cause of death.

Positional asphyxia had been suspected as the cause, given that several witnesses previously testified that a number of officers -- some said as many as a dozen -- piled onto Dixon, a 330-pound man, while arresting him for disorderly conduct.

[wildbourgman]

Preston, I agree. I also don't think it was the "choke hold" because it was not a trained choke hold at all. I think it was many various events, actions and circumstances that caused the death but not just the choke.

Now I'll take this into another big picture direction. If New York had fewer big government, nanny state laws would this have been different? If people and lawmakers had a more libertarian mind set would this have happened?

This man was being harrassed by cops for supposedly selling single cigarettes without paying taxes. Really? First of all that has big government and nanny state's signature all over it. Next how many people in New York vote for people who pass these laws? How many black voters vote for lawmakers that pass these laws? 95%

So voters basically empower government to pass the laws, the laws that police enforce and then get upset when those same laws are enforced strongly.

If selling cigarettes without paying taxes as an offense that you must be detained and arrested for according to the law then what did these officers do wrong in the eyes of the law? These folks are getting the type of governance that they voted for.

I would have thought a citation would have been enough, but really I don't think it's governments business to start with.

[dissident]

Policing problem? What policing problem? It's always the "perp"'s fault.

[Plantagenet]

Garner died because he was resisting arrest.

The policemen were arresting Garner for some minor crime involving illegal cigarette sales. Garner would not surrender his illegal goods, would not not cooperate with the police and resisted being handcuffed. Five officers grabbed Mr. Garner to restrain him and handcuff him and arrest him. Mr. Garner, unfortunately, had asthma, and in his struggles to resist arrest he triggered an asthma attack and died. The Grand Jury investigating his death correctly found that Mr. Garner bore the responsibility for his own death because he failed to cooperate with the police officers who were trying to detain him.

Always remember---the policeman is your friend. If a policeman asks you a question, then answer politely. If he asks you not to walk in the middle street, then thank him and move to the sidewalk.

[PrestonSturges]

Yes and don't be like the guy with Down's syndrome (who was described as really retarded, not a high functioning television cute kid with Downs) who would not leave the theater without his companion. This was a guy that had a very visible case of Downs. People with disabled kids and problems like autism (again not the high functioning television cute version) worry that their kid is going to end up being beaten to death by the cops. Our mentally ill people are now just summarily executed in the streets - we got rid of the hospitals and nearly every other form of help, and the cops just kill them.

[noobtube]

The seeds are being sown for massive civil unrest in the future, in the United States.

There are generations of American kids who see the police as nothing more than violent, brute, thugs that are only concerned with protecting themselves, failed banks, and corrupt corporations while putting the community in danger, to protect their jobs and pensions.

Will it spell the end of the American curse on planet Earth. It just might be.

[Sixstrings]

So many if you are so racist it really is sad. If the prejudice exhibited here reflects mainstream US thought I pity for you all!

Is Charles Barkley a racist?

Now regarding the NYC video, where the guy was just selling loose cigarettes and police did a sleeper hold and took him down..

I think that one was excessive.

He said 11 times, "I can't breathe." Coroner determined that he died from a combination of the sleeper hold and pressure on his chest.

Don't we have to admit that one was excessive? They should have let up a bit once he was saying he can't breathe, no?

And I didn't watch the video really close, just saw it on tv, but I'm not sure if they ever told him he was under arrest. They just BOOM were all over him.

There's still no justification to ever resist arrest or get agitated with police, BUT, I mean, come on guys we really don't want to see police just killing people in the street right?

I think I have to say the protesters have a point with the NY one. Grand jury process and legal system still must be respected, and I don't want to see cops getting prosecuted either; what needs to happen here is a review and some major changes and cops do need to tone it down a bit. NY cops are a lot tougher than Southern cops, ironically. A lot of those NY cops are Italian. Seems they act like a nightclub bouncer, or something, it's just a bit too much.

[Sixstrings]

I found the video on youtube and watched it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo

Now, I think the crucial moment in this situation is how they placed him under arrest. I can't hear it in the video, but I think maybe at the 34 second mark is when the one cop may have said to Garner that he's under arrest.

But I don't know, you can't hear what the cop was saying.

It just looks like a really amateur job by these cops. They just start grabbing him, kind of randomly, and then Garner says "don't touch me." It's just kind of weird to me, I've never seen cops arrest in this manner.

So they obviously took the "don't touch me" as resisting arrest -- and that's when BOOM they do the sleeper hold and they all jump him.

Ok, now at the 55 second mark.. THAT is DEFINITELY when they should have let up.

I've seen a lot of episodes of Cops (which makes me an expert lol) but really here, I don't think that arrest was handled right.

That wasn't a big crime in progress or something, or anything major. What cops are supposed to do in a situation like that is clearly tell the person, in a stern but calm and clear way, that they're being placed under arrest.

***You see this on the tv show cops, all the time, a good cop will actually be talking softly to the guy and calming him down even while he is cuffing him. And that *prevents* it from getting worse. And that's what was not done here.***

They have a point with this one, the arrest wasn't done right, and all the guy was doing anyway was just selling loose cigarettes.

That's actually a sad video. Ok, towards the end he stops resisting but starts resisting again -- and saying he can't breathe -- what's sad there is that he was dying at that point, you can't help but fight back if you're being choked to death and dying.

He died right there, they still had the choke hold on him, and he was dead.

This was excessive force and not done right, they didn't INTEND to kill him but they did. Not shown in that video I linked, but after it became clear something was wrong they started asking "are you okay, big guy?"

So what's going on here. Do police need better training?

I think a lot of these cops are so young. I saw a thing on CNN about how in NYC they take fresh cadets right out of school and put them in the tough neighborhoods (Bloomberg called it the "surge" strategy). These cadets are KIDS though, and don't even know what they are doing, and have to go back to the supervisor to ask about every little thing and how to handle basic stuff like cause for arrest.

[vtsnowedin]

I'm surprised the New York Grand Jury did not return a charge. The video clearly shows excessive force. Why keep sitting on a guys back when you have several other cops with hands on for backup? The answer may lie in the victims thirty one previous arrests. How many of those officers had arrested him previously and been assaulted while doing it? " Once burned twice wary" goes the saying and those present may have learned not to take him on alone or give him any opportunity to strike back.

[Subjectivist]

I learned as a small child to be polite to police officers and Sherrif deputies and it has served me well. Yes I got a few tickets, but I have never been arrested because I never refused to do the sensible thing and avoid a confrontation of my own making.

[Paulo1]

Selling loose smokes to poor people who cannot afford a 'deck' = crime and arrest scenario.

Bilk millions out of their investments behind your ivory-walled bank and you get to go to Obama fund raisers.

The country is ****ed. It has lots its way.

[Oneaboveall]

They had 5 or 6 people do a dog pile on him, suffocating him. It probably was not the choke hold anyway. I've heard it may be that if you put a fat person face down and pile a bunch of people on him, their abdominal fat gets pushed up against the diaphragm, compressing the heart and lungs.

If you have a half dozen people, you can restrain someone by holding their arms and legs. You don't pile them all on their chest and then (usually) have someone put their knee on the suspect's neck...

Positional asphyxia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_asphyxia

[PrestonSturges]

Also, it seems like cops don't say "You're under arrest, turn around and put your hands on the wall." Instead they just simply grab someone and try to take them to the ground. This is not how it use to be, but now it seems to be standard. And of course someone "resists" being thrown to the ground, because nobody simply says "Hey this looks like a nice place to fall down...." It's instinct to pull away. Now the cops have all the excuse the need for a massive escalation of force.

And as I said, if there are five cops they should each just take an arm or leg instead of all of them trying to kneel on the guy's chest. One person can hold a person face down by bending the "suspect's" arm at a 90 degree angle, palm up, in a chicken wing position. With the ground providing a fulcrum, you can easily dislocate their arm if they resist.

Maybe some criminal gang needs to go around executing their enemies this way since it does not seem to be a crime. Or maybe the cops should simply stomp people to death since they probably would not get into trouble.

[wildbourgman]

Selling loose smokes to poor people who cannot afford a 'deck' = crime and arrest scenario.

Bilk millions out of their investments behind your ivory-walled bank and you get to go to Obama fund raisers.

The country is ****ed. It has lots its way.

I agree. The small street guy gets arrested for selling cigs (this one even died) while the wall street guy gets a golden parachute and a bail out when he ruins my future retirement.