[DesuMaiden]

Wood's advantages...it is renewable and there is plenty of it.

Disadvantages...even though wood is a renewable resource, it can be depleted if you use it at a faster rate than it replenishes.

Coal's advantages...there is plenty of it and it has a higher energy density than wood.

Disadvantages of coal...it is a nonrenewable resource, so once you use it up, it is gone for ever.

Can anyone else think of more advantages/disadvantages to wood vs coal?

[vtsnowedin]

Wood's advantages...it is renewable and there is plenty of it.

No there is not plenty of it. Our forest are being fully utilized and there is little room for increased use. Many of the overpopulated areas of the world such as sub Saharan Africa have no forests left and are digging out the stumps.

Disadvantages...even though wood is a renewable resource, it can be depleted if you use it at a faster rate than it replenishes.

Coal's advantages...there is plenty of it and it has a higher energy density than wood.

Disadvantages of coal...it is a nonrenewable resource, so once you use it up, it is gone for ever.

Can anyone else think of more advantages/disadvantages to wood vs coal?

Wood burning recycles CO2 into the atmosphere where it can be recaptured by still growing forests. A renewable loop if you will. Mining and burning coal on the other hand releases C02 that has been sequestered for millions of years with no mechanism to recapture it and prevent increases in the greenhouse effect. Mercury pollution, acid rain, mountain top removal etc. all come as byproducts of burning coal.
We will keep digging it up and burning it regardless as it is what keeps the lights on and the steel mills humming.

[DesuMaiden]

We can't stop burning coal or else the lights will go out and the steel mills will stop running!

[autonomous]

The World Health Organizaton states that nearly half of the worlds population, or "around 3 billion people cook and heat their homes using open fires and simple stoves burning biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/

"By far the largest so-called renewable fuel used in Europe is wood." Europe consumed 13m tonnes of wood pellets in 2012, according to International Wood Markets Group, a Canadian company. On current trends, European demand will rise to 25m-30m a year by 2020.
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21575771-environmental-lunacy-europe-fuel-future

And according to the EIA, "in the United States, wood fuel is the second-leading form of renewable energy, behind hydro-electric."
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/renew_co2.cfm

Europe does not produce enough timber to meet that extra demand. So a hefty chunk of it will come from imports. Imports of wood pellets into the EU rose by 50% in 2010 alone and global trade in them (influenced by Chinese as well as EU demand) could rise five- or sixfold from 10m-12m tonnes a year to 60m tonnes by 2020, reckons the European Pellet Council. Much of that will come from a new wood-exporting business that is booming in western Canada and the American south. Gordon Murray, executive director of the Wood Pellet Association of Canada, calls it “an industry invented from nothing”.

Coppicing is a very traditional way of forest management. It benefits from the natural regeneration of mostly broadleaf species and their fast growth in the first decades. In most cases situated close to settlements this silvicultural regime provided among
others firewood, bark, fruits and grazing and by this supported the livelihood of the rural population. Until the middle of the 20th century, coppice forests were very common in most parts of Europe. With increase in use of non-renewable raw materials, coppice lost importance and was neglected or converted. Only recently coppice has been rediscovered because of its adaptive
ecology, its stability and multiple benefits, notably its protection function, contribution to biodiversity and as a source of
renewable bioenergy.
https://www.eurocoppice.uni-freiburg.de/intern/pdf/poster-overview-eurocoppice

[Newfie]

We can't stop burning coal or else the lights will go out and the steel mills will stop running!

And if we don't we ouch ourselves into disastrous climate change.

But you know that.

So what are you up to?

[vtsnowedin]

We can't stop burning coal or else the lights will go out and the steel mills will stop running!

And if we don't we ouch ourselves into disastrous climate change.

But you know that.

So what are you up to?

Just observing what I think is going to happen given human nature and politics. I see no chance of major nations volunteering to do without fossil fuels so I agree with those that think we will continue to extract and burn them regardless of the consequences.

[DesuMaiden]

I would rather be burning wood than coal because the former is a renewable resource unlike the later. Plus, wood burning doesn't create mercury poisoning unlike coal burning. Wood is overall a cleaner and more sustainable fuel than coal.

[dolanbaker]

I would rather be burning wood than coal because the former is a renewable resource unlike the later. Plus, wood burning doesn't create mercury poisoning unlike coal burning. Wood is overall a cleaner and more sustainable fuel than coal.

But only in a relatively sparsely populated area, in urban areas the wood would come from forests outside the town, which in turn means that a significant amount of diesel will be used in its transportation. Just how far would that wood travel?

[DesuMaiden]

I would rather be burning wood than coal because the former is a renewable resource unlike the later. Plus, wood burning doesn't create mercury poisoning unlike coal burning. Wood is overall a cleaner and more sustainable fuel than coal.

But only in a relatively sparsely populated area, in urban areas the wood would come from forests outside the town, which in turn means that a significant amount of diesel will be used in its transportation. Just how far would that wood travel?

We could chop trees inside of a city for fuel inside of a city, but we will quickly run out of wood. And then we will need to transport wood from outside of the city to inside the city.

[Subjectivist]

I suggest a corn pellet stove, that way you burn the grain and it is annually renewable. It only takes a couple acres of land to grow enough corn to keep you toasty warm all winter, and you can use the leaves and husks to feed livestock.

[DesuMaiden]

I suggest a corn pellet stove, that way you burn the grain and it is annually renewable. It only takes a couple acres of land to grow enough corn to keep you toasty warm all winter, and you can use the leaves and husks to feed livestock.

Thanks for the tip.

[Tanada]

I suggest a corn pellet stove, that way you burn the grain and it is annually renewable. It only takes a couple acres of land to grow enough corn to keep you toasty warm all winter, and you can use the leaves and husks to feed livestock.

Thanks for the tip.

If you are interested there is a thread just on pellet stoves here,
the-wood-pellet-stove-thread-merged-t47047.html

Just for info purposes a flex fuel pellet/corn stove will burn about 2/3rds of a bushel of shelled corn per day and a moderate yield per acre will get you about 120 bushels of shelled corn. Thus a reasonable acre yield will get you heat for 2000 square feet/ 200 square meters of floor space for 180 days per acre.

You can also buy a small pellet press and convert scrap paper or cardboard or lumber into home made pellets for 'free' once you pay for the press and the effort to gather and process your free materials. In a pinch most of them will run just fine on dry dog or cat food if you have nothing else available in an emergency.

[pasttense]

I suggest a corn pellet stove, that way you burn the grain and it is annually renewable. It only takes a couple acres of land to grow enough corn to keep you toasty warm all winter, and you can use the leaves and husks to feed livestock.

But surely you will want to use the corn to make ethanol to power your automobile!!!(although there are still some odd-ball fanatics who believe that corn should be used for food--what an old-fashioned idea!!!)

[DesuMaiden]

I suggest a corn pellet stove, that way you burn the grain and it is annually renewable. It only takes a couple acres of land to grow enough corn to keep you toasty warm all winter, and you can use the leaves and husks to feed livestock.

But surely you will want to use the corn to make ethanol to power your automobile!!!(although there are still some odd-ball fanatics who believe that corn should be used for food--what an old-fashioned idea!!!)

I believe corn should be used as food, not fuel. Wood should be used as fuel mainly because we can't digest wood as food.

[AndyA]

I can go outside and cut down/up a tree, no supply chain issues there. Wood ash can be used as fertiliser, or with some water and fat you can make soap.

[DesuMaiden]

I can go outside and cut down/up a tree, no supply chain issues there. Wood ash can be used as fertiliser, or with some water and fat you can make soap.

Trees are a pretty important natural resource. Nobody should underestimate the importance of trees.

[Newfie]

Lebanon cedars
http://www1.american.edu/ted/cedars.htm

Easter island palms

Venice denuded its surrounding areas and had to conquer more areas to supply wood in the 14th century.

England and Japan set up royal forests, protected areas to assure supply of wood for ship building and masts.

Iceland and Greenland were both denuded of their indeginious forest quickly.

All of that was BEFORE the recent expansion population expansion.

I can burn wood, and make ethanol. But I've got 168 acres of wood lot.

NYC? Chicago? LA?

[basil_hayden]

Nate Hagens pointed out (on the oil drum I believe) that our forests would last about 6 months if the population began burning wood for heat to replace fossil fuels including coal.

My state was almost completely clear cut until about 100 years ago, it's grown back quite a bit since, along with all the prey and predators.
That's the main advantage of coal - it lets most of your ecology live on. If you like trees, then you're a fan of fossil fuels, because without it there'd be none these days.

Desu - why do you keep dancing around the heart of the matter? There's too many people, not enough resources, and the resources we have are being used less and less diversely, leading to an anticipated bottleneck or at a minimum some severe upward pricing pressure. It's easy to see the train coming down the tracks, but we're not sure when it arrives.

[dolanbaker]

Nate Hagens pointed out (on the oil drum I believe) that our forests would last about 6 months if the population began burning wood for heat to replace fossil fuels including coal.

My state was almost completely clear cut until about 100 years ago, it's grown back quite a bit since, along with all the prey and predators.
That's the main advantage of coal - it lets most of your ecology live on. If you like trees, then you're a fan of fossil fuels, because without it there'd be none these days.

Desu - why do you keep dancing around the heart of the matter? There's too many people, not enough resources, and the resources we have are being used less and less diversely, leading to an anticipated bottleneck or at a minimum some severe upward pricing pressure. It's easy to see the train coming down the tracks, but we're not sure when it arrives.

Much of Europe was almost completely deforested before coal & peat/turf became the primary fuel sources. Had these alternatives not been available at that time, we would be a very different people.
So different that it's hard to imagine....

[DesuMaiden]

Nate Hagens pointed out (on the oil drum I believe) that our forests would last about 6 months if the population began burning wood for heat to replace fossil fuels including coal.

My state was almost completely clear cut until about 100 years ago, it's grown back quite a bit since, along with all the prey and predators.
That's the main advantage of coal - it lets most of your ecology live on. If you like trees, then you're a fan of fossil fuels, because without it there'd be none these days.

Desu - why do you keep dancing around the heart of the matter? There's too many people, not enough resources, and the resources we have are being used less and less diversely, leading to an anticipated bottleneck or at a minimum some severe upward pricing pressure. It's easy to see the train coming down the tracks, but we're not sure when it arrives.

How did he calculate that we would only have 6 months worth of wood if we started burning wood to replace coal and fossil fuels? I think we have more wood than that.