[DesuMaiden]

There is no way everyone on Earth can have the same standard of living as the average North American. There is no way everyone on Earth can consume as much resources per capita as the average North American. Why is that case? That's because it will require three extra Earths worth of resources for that to happen. And it is obviously not possible to have three extra Earths.

Also realistically there is no way every family on Earth could own a computer because there isn't enough Rare Earth Metals (REM) to make that many computers. Also there is no way every family on Earth can own a car because there isn't enough oil to make that many cars.

We have to be realistic. There is no way everyone can enjoy the same level of consumption of natural resources as people in the developed world. The per capita consumption of natural resources in the developing world will always be lower than the developed world. Therefore developing countries will always stay as developing countries.

However, people in developing countries should still be entitled to receive a higher level of education. I believe everyone has the fundamental right to be literate and numerate. By increasing their educational level and by empowering women, we can reduce the birth rates in developing nations, which will help reduce the population in those highly overpopulated countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I believe we can improve the standard of living in the developing countries, but that's only if people get educated first. Also, they need to stop population growth because like I mentioned before, you can't become richer by increasing population. You become poorer as you increase population because the Earth's natural resources is like a pie. The more people there are the less of the pie each person gets because the more people the pie needs to be divided amongst. It is really that simple.

There is hope for the world. But that's only possible if we act fast, and try to make changes immediately. We can still live in a much more equitable, fair and happier world if we do the right things. Any suggestions on what else we can do in the future?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

Am I the only one who thinks peak oil is a problem?

Am I right here?

[Subjectivist]

Am I the only one who thinks peak oil is a problem?

Am I right here?

Yup you are the only one, I just come here to learn wisdom from your written words on my tiny screen. /Sarc

[GHung]

Desu: "...people in developing countries should still be entitled to receive a higher level of education..."

No one is 'entitled' to anything. That's a purely human construct that Nature ignores. Some of us are just luckier than others. Same as it ever was....

[ralfy]

The catch is that for the current middle class to maintain their lifestyle, they will have to sell more goods and services to an expanding market.

[DesuMaiden]

The catch is that for the current middle class to maintain their lifestyle, they will have to sell more goods and services to an expanding market.

What do you mean by that?

[ralfy]

What do you mean by that?

Members of the middle class face increasing costs of living. That's why they want more profits, better returns on their investment, higher pay, a promotion, etc. That way, they can get that house or car that they wanted, the latest gadgets, club memberships, and so on. It's part of a decades-old phenomenon sometimes called

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream

and generally involved upward mobility. But to earn all that, the businesses that they work for or invest in had to sell more goods and services each time, and given competition that ultimately meant selling to an expanding consumer market. Hence,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22956470

The implication is that for the present middle class to pay for its expenses and even earn more it needed more paying customers or clients. And given a global economy that meant overseas business opportunities and customers.

[DesuMaiden]

What do you mean by that?

Members of the middle class face increasing costs of living. That's why they want more profits, better returns on their investment, higher pay, a promotion, etc. That way, they can get that house or car that they wanted, the latest gadgets, club memberships, and so on. It's part of a decades-old phenomenon sometimes called

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream

and generally involved upward mobility. But to earn all that, the businesses that they work for or invest in had to sell more goods and services each time, and given competition that ultimately meant selling to an expanding consumer market. Hence,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22956470

The implication is that for the present middle class to pay for its expenses and even earn more it needed more paying customers or clients. And given a global economy that meant overseas business opportunities and customers.

That sounds like a pyramid scheme because you need an ever-expanding supply of customers at the bottom to sell your services to. That's not good. Nobody likes pyramid schemes.

[Keith_McClary]

Also realistically there is no way every family on Earth could own a computer because there isn't enough Rare Earth Metals (REM) to make that many computers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/number-o ... cs-2013-12

[ralfy]

That sounds like a pyramid scheme because you need an ever-expanding supply of customers at the bottom to sell your services to. That's not good. Nobody likes pyramid schemes.

I think more are becoming aware of this, but because their children need jobs and they want middle class conveniences, then they assume one technofix or another will solve physical limitations and thus allow for continuous economic growth.

[DesuMaiden]

That sounds like a pyramid scheme because you need an ever-expanding supply of customers at the bottom to sell your services to. That's not good. Nobody likes pyramid schemes.

I think more are becoming aware of this, but because their children need jobs and they want middle class conveniences, then they assume one technofix or another will solve physical limitations and thus allow for continuous economic growth.

The problem with technology is that it is limited by the natural resources we have on this planet. No amount of technology and human ingenuity can possibly overturn the laws of nature. The laws that govern this Earth. Those laws are immutable and real. And science has never been able to do that. I think the greatest arrogance of mankind is his belief that he can use science and technology to somehow become gods and overturn the laws of nature. It just doesn't work that way.

For example, computers are made of rare earth metals (REMs) and REMs are a finite and nonrenewable resource, which are running out of. Without REMs, we can't create anymore computers, and we are running of REMs. So it is likely we can't produce anymore computers in the future when REMs become too scarce.

The fundamental flaw with capitalism is that it assumes that there are infinite resources, and that there will always be a replacement if x resource runs out. But the problem is the Earth is finite. And so far, we haven't found any resource that can replace oil. And it is most likely we will never find any resource that can replace oil. So this means the end of oil is, more or less, the end of industrialized civilization. The same logic applies to other natural resources as well. We know it is only possible to make computers with REMs, and there is just no way to make computers without REMs. When we run out REMs, which will happen in the near future, we can't make anymore computers and countless other electronic products. Unless people realize that the Earth's resources are finite and that we can't infinitely consume things and infinitely increase population, we are doomed as a species because if we continue to recklessly consume like there is no tomorrow, we will eventually run out of many essential natural resources.

Cornucopian beliefs are nonsense. There is no such thing as infinite human progress in technology. There is no such thing that progresses infinitely. And cornucopian only focuses on technological progress. It doesn't focus on social progress, and we still need tons of social progress. Our social progress is certainly behind our technological progress. In fact, our technology has outstripped our social progress by a huge amount. We are now an over-powered species with the ability to wipe off virtually all life on Earth with our nuclear weapons, yet we are still stupid and ignorant in terms of our moral and ethics.

Either way, the future is not bright. And the doomer world view still stands to be correct.

[ralfy]

Good points, especially those concerning social progress.