[DesuMaiden]

For me, I realized Christianity and Islam were nonsense when I started to critically examine these religions in detail. And they fail to be logically consistent and congruent to reality. I don't think all religions are nonsense, but some are. I don't think I will ever become a Muslim or Christian in my life (unless I suffered from some severe brain damage).

I don't think religious people are dumb. I just think they are delusional, as in they are lying to themselves. They learned to rationalize their faith to defend their faith from rational scrutiny. But no amount of rationalization will make a false belief true.

Anyways, that's all I have to say. Peace out.

[SeaGypsy]

Why only mention 2 of the 3 main Abrahamic collective delusions? There are a bunch of branches of Abrahamic faiths, hundreds of Hindu, Buddhist, etc sects, then thousands of so called cult religions. There is also scientific humanism, which depending on your definition may or may not qualify as a religion, then many meditation techniques of religious origin which have purged themselves towards scientific secularism.

It is generally a good idea to study words, their origins & meanings, their evolutions over time & variation in use according to cultural context.

The original meaning of 'religion' is basically about connection. Connection between people, between people & things, between past, present & future. There is nothing essentially wrong with religion per se. It just so happens to be a brilliant tool for manipulating groups of people, therein lies the problem.

[AgentR11]

You make a logical error when you conclude that because something is unproven, or unprovable, that it is also false or delusional. You essentially create a belief system for yourself in doing so; believing something you can not prove, when you assert that there is no God/are no gods, or (a) religion is false.

If you don't particularly like religion and don't find its arguments compelling, the proper, logical perspective is that of the agnostic.

I, myself, am Catholic. Well educated, both in science and mathematics, and to some extent theology, logic, and that sort of thing. I do not find anything in science that proves or disproves the existence of God, nor his saving grace, nor the doctrines of the Church.

As to logical consistency, or matching reality; this is usually the result of failing to state the condition clearly coupled with mistaking hunch for doctrine.

[SeaGypsy]

In case any of that was aimed at moi agent, it appears your religion is one of the more open to science of any major religion. Not that this has always been the case.

[AgentR11]

Wasn't really aimed at anything other than the thread title really and the OP. Catholicism was fairly mature as Europe went through the Enlightenment, and participated greatly in the formation and growth of Universities; as much as pop-culture enjoys the Galileo story as a "Church hates science" escapade; a lot was learned then, and since then about how science and faith do not conflict unless they are forced to conflict by an ulterior motive.

In point of fact, a closer look at the Galileo story can reveal a lot about how people of the time tried very hard to use science to define faith and faith to define science, all mutually to no avail. Galileo personally thought that because he was able to demonstrate that the Earth wasn't at the center of the universe, that human life was not central to God's plan; even though logically, as we can stand back now and view the problem, its clear that there is no way to demonstrate any link between the two assertions.

[KaiserJeep]

Desu, this topic is possibly offensive to some, I would advise caution.

AAMOF, I notice you have THIRTEEN THREADS on the first page of the Forum. Seriously dude, step back and don't think about this place for a week or two. Regain your perspective on life. There is a real world out there, that is only obscured by the computer screen.

[ralfy]

FWIW, the religions that have been dominant globally for the last few decades are secular ones, especially capitalism.

[KaiserJeep]

FWIW, the religions that have been dominant globally for the last few decades are secular ones, especially capitalism.

Or Science.

[DesuMaiden]

FWIW, the religions that have been dominant globally for the last few decades are secular ones, especially capitalism.

Capitalism is also a crock of bullshit. It only benefits the rich. And the whole ideology is founded upon the concept of inequality. The USA says all men are created equal, yet the capitalism it embraces certainly makes all men unequal. Why do some people deserve to be so rich? And yet other people deserve to be so poor? That's just not fair. Capitalism is just a pyramid scheme. Anyone who tries to justify the inequality and injustices of capitalism is just a douchebag, in my opinion.

[AgentR11]

One of my favorite movie lines comes to mind...

"Deserve"'s got nuttin to do with it.

[Keith_McClary]

FWIW, the religions that have been dominant globally for the last few decades are secular ones, especially capitalism.

Or Science.

I ask you again, define engineering.

[dolanbaker]

As an atheist, I have one less leader, and one less rule book to follow.

[KaiserJeep]

FWIW, the religions that have been dominant globally for the last few decades are secular ones, especially capitalism.

Or Science.

I ask you again, define engineering.

Engineering is a profession. Engineers squeeze the last bit of performance out of funds, do the most with the least. Today an under-$100 tablet has more computing power than took man to the Moon in the 1960s, because of Engineering. Today we have cars capable of 80mpg, that's Engineering. Today we have $300 camera drones invading our privacy, that's Engineering.

Engineers are not worshipped by the unwashed as are Scientists. These are the priests of that most popular of new religions, Science, all dressed in their white vestments:




Science is actually a religion. If you doubt that, ask yourself if you BELIEVE these teachings from the white-coated priests:

1) The Sun is the center of the Solar system. Really, how do you KNOW? Did you make astronomical observations and determine that they fit the equations of celestial mechanics, or did you read it in a holy book that said Science on the cover?

2) Disease can be caused by invisible viruses, not viewable on microscopes. Again, did you verify this yourself? In fact did you ever even SEE an electron microscope in operation?

3) Carbon Dioxide is warming the Earth. Did you ever perform a basic experiment that confirms the Greenhouse Effect, or did one of your priests tell you about it?

4) Matter is organized into atoms, which are in turn made from sub-atomic particles. Really, is that true? Because Science once said that everything was made up of the four elements Earth, Water, Wind, and Fire.

5) The Earth is a round ball, spinning in a vacuum. Which astronaut are you? When did you last observe the Earth from orbit, or travel to another planet?

I could go on and on, but you get the drift. Science has many holy books, and tells you that nobody can read them all, or master all of Scientific knowledge. They tell you how things work, and you swallow it all, without question. You are as devoted to your religion as any worshiper of any other religion is.

[ralfy]

FWIW, the religions that have been dominant globally for the last few decades are secular ones, especially capitalism.

Capitalism is also a crock of bullshit. It only benefits the rich. And the whole ideology is founded upon the concept of inequality. The USA says all men are created equal, yet the capitalism it embraces certainly makes all men unequal. Why do some people deserve to be so rich? And yet other people deserve to be so poor? That's just not fair. Capitalism is just a pyramid scheme. Anyone who tries to justify the inequality and injustices of capitalism is just a douchebag, in my opinion.

It's also possible that, as I pointed out elsewhere, the main sources of conflict during the previous century involved not religions such as Christianity or Islam but realpolitik.

[ralfy]

Also, science is not a religion. Ideologies which use it to promote one world view or another (e.g., freedom based on increasing growth) may be seen as secular ones.

[Newfie]

I had trouble with religion right from the start. I tried to believe, I really did. Didn't work out. Roman Catholic upbringing. The Catechism never made much sense to me. I was a tdouble maker with too many questions.

Madonna is a given name in my Mom's family. I have a cousin who is an Abbot at a Cisterian monastery.

I'm an atheist.

For a while I was pretty involved with Ethical Humanisim, 14 years on the Board and 4 years as president. Ethical Humanisim is an interesting religion as it is non-theistic, but still recognizes some folks need for community and ceremony.

My sense is that religion had three uses...mostly outgrown in Western Culture, or Western Europe anyway......
It provides answered for the unknown. But science has mostly displaced that.
It provides law and order. But governments now fill that role.
It provides a sense of community and culture. It is here that religion still has a useful function for some. Ethical Culture can perform this role for atheists and agnostics.

[Keith_McClary]

Engineering is a profession. Engineers squeeze the last bit of performance out of funds, do the most with the least.
...
I could go on and on, but you get the drift. Science has many holy books, and tells you that nobody can read them all, or master all of Scientific knowledge. They tell you how things work, and you swallow it all, without question. You are as devoted to your religion as any worshiper of any other religion is.

Sometimes engineers have to read a few more of those holy books:

[SeaGypsy]

I have had way too many psychedelics to qualify as either theist or atheist, if any I would relate to to is kind of polytheist & multidimensional consciousness beyond ordinary comprehension & rarely more than witnessed or experienced momentarily.

[Pops]

I don't think religion is nonsense, I just haven't found one that is my cup o tea. Maybe because I don't look very hard. I was raised in a little southern baptist church where my extended family was quite involved. I really liked the social aspects and the music (I still listen to traditional and blugrassy gospel) but was turned off by what I saw as the all encompassing righteousness and silly tribalism.

But as for religion bashing, as AR pointed out, it is just another version of arguing the dancefloor capacity of a pinhead, just self-justifying tribalism.