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Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & doom

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & doom

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 10:50:44

This article says this.

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/ff_apocalypsenot/

It says everything will fine in the next couple of decades of the 21st century. These people are living in delusion and denial. Everything is not going to be fine. Just a decade or two before the collapse of industrial civilization, the doubters think we can continue business as usual. But the doomers and preachers of doom are right once again. Business as usual cannot continue indefinitely. And there will be a collapse of modern civilization. It is already too late to prevent this collapse. It is inevitable.

I don't spend my time preaching reality to mainstream media. Mainstream media will continue to ignore the signs of collapse until it is too late. According to Matt Savinar, the speed of collapse is dependent on the amount of bullshit propagated before the collapse. And given how much lies the average person believes from the mainstream media, I'm afraid to say that the collapse is going to be fast.

The collapse is not going to happen over night, but the moment Saudi Arabian oil production collapses, the world will go into a major oil shortage. Saudi Arabia relies on water injection to keep its oil production rates high. But after their major oil fields peak, their oil production will fall off a cliff rather than gradually and slowly decline. Saudi Arabia has the world's largest proven oil reserves. They claim to have 250 billion barrels of oil, but this is likely an inflated number. So Saudi Arabia will likely peak and decline much sooner than most people anticipate. And when Saudi Arabia peaks and declines, the whole world peaks and declines since Saudi Arabia has the world's biggest oil reserves.

And even a small short fall of oil supplies compared to demand will cause major economic turmoil. Even a shortfall of supply by as little as 3 to 4 percent will cause the price of oil to drastically increase. And since there are currently no reliable substitutes for oil and likely none in the future, oil supply deficiencies will cause the global economy to collapse. Widespread famine and starvation will become a norm. Even food exporting countries, like the USA and Canada, will struggle to feed their population in another 10 to 20 years due to insufficient oil supplies. Remember there are 7 to 10 calories of fossil fuels used to produce every calorie of food in the industrialized world. When oil goes into decline, it is inevitable food production will go into decline causing widespread famine and skyrocketing food prices.

The mainstream media still publishes articles on how they believe everything is fine, and we will have no trouble supporting 9 billion people by 2050. I can guarantee you there will never be 9 billion people on this planet because by 2040 to 2050 oil production will only be a tiny fraction of the current levels. Since oil production = food production in the 21st century, declining oil production leads to declining food production. Declining food production will cause the population to collapse and experience a die off. Like Professor David Goodstein once said, "There are 7.2 billion people on this planet. And most of them are reasonably well-fed as a result of the Green Revolution of the second half of the 20th century, which consisted a large part of fertilizing land with petrochemicals. That is fertilizers and pesticides made of petroleum and natural gas. I don't think we can sustain the present population of the globe--much less the population in 20 to 30 years--without the use of petrochemicals. So yes, we eat oil and natural gas".

Like Michael Ruppert once said, there are 5 billion plus people today who exist only because of oil. There are ten calories of fossil fuel energy used to produce every calorie of food in the industrialized world. If you take the oil and natural gas away, you take away the food. And if you take away the food, the population goes away. It is that simple.

So the mainstream media is lying again, and putting a big smilie face on an issue that has no solution other than a die off and collapse of modern civilization. I believe the government is well-aware of the consequences of peak oil, but they lie to the public because they don't want to lose control. I believe the government is full of lies, and can't be trusted anymore. But societal collapse = collapse of the government too, and no one in government wants to admit this. I don't believe the United States will remain united anymore after the collapse. It will be divided into many separate fiefdoms. It is like the break up of the Roman Empire into many separate states. Social complexity is directly correlational to the amount of energy expended. Complex societies require a lot of energy to survive. And since our society is the most complex society ever on Earth, our society is the most energy-intensive society ever. Without cheap and abundant oil, it is only axiomatic society will also collapse.

That's what I believe. This modern civilization is facing a collapse, and I don't believe there is anything to do to save it. It is already too late. But our modern civilization is not worth saving because it has become too corrupt and self-fish to be worth preserving.

So let's just sit back and watch the collapse happen over the next couple of decades. :-D Let's watch the population drop from present levels or higher to under 2 billion people over this century.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Revi » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:29:39

Mainstream media is not in the business of giving people news like that. They are there to prop up the existing order and to sell people things. Collapse is not good for either of those aims.

I like to pay attention to the business news, and one of my favorite sites is Zero Hedge.

People who know what's potentially going to happen are going to be few and far between, but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby dinopello » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:35:50

MSM doesn't like to predict catastrophe & doom, but they love to report on it.

Because that is what we want

Most news we see and hear is negative, and replete with disasters, terrorism, crime, scandals and corruption. Does the media create that negative news bias or does it respond to our preference for bad news over good news?

A recent study by the Pew Research Center for People(link is external) & the Press synthesizes 165 separate national surveys and finds that American news preferences have remained “surprisingly static” over the last twenty years. Study author Michael J. Robinson reports, not surprisingly, war and terrorism have consistently ranked at the top of the stack since 1986, where the study begins. So have bad weather, and natural or manmade disaster stories, although the latter stand out for having witnessed a precipitous drop in public interest, one of the rare instances of significant change. In contrast, money news is the only category that has grown notably more popular with time. Crime, health, and politics have consistently ranked as mid-level interest categories. Science and technology, foreign news that is not directly related to the U.S., and tabloid and entertainment news have consistently ranked lowest in the public eye.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Lore » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:40:34

Simply, there is no profit in predicting doom. Even most disaster movies have happy endings.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Apneaman » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:56:24

We are living in a real bizarro world

Living in Bizzaro World

http://collapseofindustrialcivilization ... /#comments
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 14:22:17

That article is from 2012 and was written about the Mayan apocalypse that never happened.

I'll have to point out that there is at least a 50/50 chance that civilization will NOT END when cheap oil does end. In fact I think that the most likely experience for both citizens of Canada and the USA is:

1) Vehicle fuel will get really expensive, perhaps $20/gallon or $5/liter, because it is made from coal.

2) Food, space heating, and in fact everything we consume will get very expensive, perhaps 2X to 4X what it costs today, because it is grown, manufactured, and transported with expensive fuel.

3) We will live in tiny houses, eat less food, and walk or bicycle almost everywhere we go. But citizens of Canada, the USA, and most of Europe will still live, obsess over politics or sports, and eat more food and drink more alcohol than we should.

4) We will rarely if ever travel more than 50 miles from where we sleep, and only for life-changing events such as weddings, births, and open heart surgeries.

5) We will still be arguing at PO.com about whether or when the collapse will come.

6) In Africa and the Middle East and South America and parts of Asia, famine will become a constant companion, as the world population dwindles.

7) There will still be a raging debate, here and elsewhere, about climate change.

8 ) Desu will still be starting too many threads, because he does not search before posting.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 17:04:11

Attended some events for the FUTURE that our High Schoolers can look forward to:

Some biotech guy, really a cool guy, investigating how to deliver DIY DNA kits to young people, really, designer genes, without the holes! He was asked about whether the population limit of the earth will make these life-saving methods useless, he said we still will reach to 9 Billion people or so in fifty years. Basically, he said 'You CAN still kick the can further down the road.'

Then, somebody on the future IN software for our kids: Space-X will bring trips to Mars via reusable spaceships and EVERYONE will certainly be driving electric vehicles in the near future and all this requires clever SOFTWARE. So, the future is bright if you're a technologist! And, I always thought that space travel requires rocket fuel.

At least, by the fifth grade, our kids have been instructed in the Earth Sciences and they KNOW that climate change is a terminal condition. Now, get on with your lives, little kiddies!
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 03 Mar 2015, 18:08:08

Its hard to sell advertising space to corporations if you tell their customers your going to be zombies.
Although gated communities developments,private security,chocolate, alcohol and gun adds would do well
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 04 Mar 2015, 00:55:28

@ kj

have to agree with at least one point Kaiser; any sensible government will ensure that the essential services and agriculture get priority for available fossil fuels
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Wed 04 Mar 2015, 02:40:06

cheaper to feed them than police them
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 04 Mar 2015, 20:35:20

Its all timing. Yes there will be collapse...but when? What is the definition of a collapse? No food in the grocery store, no gasoline at the gas station, no jobs? Fossil fuels...they will run out. Oil, then gas, then coal. The trees (given the manpower/equipment) will be mowed down for fuel..nuclear plants will melt down when people flee from the marauding gangs. Solar power, wind power will be stolen, sabotaged. Hydro plants will collapse due to leaks, earthquakes, silting, drought. 6 billion humans... no let up in birth rate that i can see. That isn't a solution either. Planet full of senior citizens? That will work. Who does the heavy lifting? Chappie? These clowns and their futuristic visions of cities on Mars, fusion reactors, robots doing all the work...good luck. Even the 1% are screwed when their bodyguards/armies flee. Hard to defend wealth against savages with sharpened bones and rocks.

MSM is owned by the .001% ...they have reasons to keep bau going.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 03:01:00

DesuMaiden wrote:This article says this.

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/ff_apocalypsenot/

It says everything will fine in the next couple of decades of the 21st century. These people are living in delusion and denial. Everything is not going to be fine. Just a decade or two before the collapse of industrial civilization, the doubters think we can continue business as usual. But the doomers and preachers of doom are right once again.

(Font made red by me, for emphasis).

"Right once again"?

Really?

Your ilk has been consistently WRONG all along, each time you claim that doom is "just around the corner" and that oil is peaking "now or very soon". I've been hearing this stuff since I started paying attention -- since the early 70's as a young teen-ager. And yes, there have been problems and there will continue to be problems every decade, but that doesn't mean doom "in our face".

As a moderate, I don't disagree at all that we can't just keep on expanding BAU and expect things to go swimmingly for many centuries. I also think that we'd be FAR better off if people would look ahead and take a FAR more conservative approach to how we consume resources and how much we reproduce, so we could voluntarily step back to a much more sustainable load on the planet. (Sadly, society overall wants little or nothing to do with that).

For you to post this and claim to be "right again" when your ilk has been consistently WRONG thus far seems to make you completely divorced from reality. Could you possibly be right about the timing THIS time? Perhaps. However, based on the track record, you seem far more likely to be wrong -- as usual.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 03:17:25

KaiserJeep wrote:I'll have to point out that there is at least a 50/50 chance that civilization will NOT END when cheap oil does end. In fact I think that the most likely experience for both citizens of Canada and the USA is:

1) Vehicle fuel will get really expensive, perhaps $20/gallon or $5/liter, because it is made from coal.

2) Food, space heating, and in fact everything we consume will get very expensive, perhaps 2X to 4X what it costs today, because it is grown, manufactured, and transported with expensive fuel.

I like your whole post,and especially these two points.

I would argue that we've already seen the early stages of these two points occur in the US -- it was called the 70's, and I lived through it.

First, gasoline did get wildly expensive compared to what people were used to and people did adapt. Things like the VW rabbit became quite popular, vs., for example, Cadillac Eldorado's built like a tank (and with similar gas mileage) in comparison.

Second, housing costs changed DRAMATICALLY in the 70's with the energy crises. My father's heating bills went up DRAMATICALLY, since our 50's house wasn't insulated. The winter heating bills got to be much higher than the house payments.

Well, if it happens again it's not like the planet will suddenly be bereft of oil. Oil will get more expensive to produce, and oil products may get MUCH more expensive to buy, possibly quickly. However, people will have some time, and will react.

Suppose, for example, that we found out that gasoline will be taxed so it has a floor price of $20.00 starting in 2016, from then on. People could start buying Prius C's (as one choice) for $18,000 instead of gigantic SUV's for $30,000 and up and for that swap suddenly roughly quadruple their city mileage. For most cars they could double their city mileage or better, and likely spend less on the car itself.

All the talk of "sudden doom", to be credible, has to assume some gigantic cataclysm suddenly engulfs a large part of the planet, AND can't be dealt with. The odds of that happening are MUCH lower than long term trends like overconsumption and overpopulation leading to things getting more expensive -- which as you say, people CAN adapt to. (And not liking it in no way equates to "collapse").
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby frankthetank » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 18:01:49

Employment will become a huge issue if fuel prices skyrocket. I could see a case where we see price controls/shortages. Maybe the government will pay people not to drive? Free Tesla's? I can see where we'll have to shut down the nat gas power plants, go back to coal on the way back down.

I would add that the waste in the system in the US must be huge. In my own life i catch myself going to the store for 1 thing, driving around the block because i want to take the long way home...driving to the park when i could be biking, etc.

Whatever occurs, it won't be good. The further out you go, the uglier. Travel now?
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 19:40:19

Some of what you describe could happen. But other possibilities exist. I am about to retire, after a 37 year and 4 month career in the Computer business. I work in a small but unique part of HP that does "NonStop" computing using a unique and proprietary operating system, running (today anyway) on standard HP hardware. I will have worked slightly more than the last 1/4th of my career WITHOUT COMMUTING. My job was transformed from a model whereby I spent 2-3 hours a day commuting to work, to one where I sit at my desk in a spare bedroom. The fundamental enabling technology for this change was Microsoft Lync software, along with broadband internet connectivity and webcams and web audio.

In fact most "white collar" jobs can be so enhanced as not to require commuting or travel - and the rare exceptions can typically use public transportation. For years before I began "telecommuting" I rode a combination of light rail, conventional commuter railroad, and a diesel shuttle bus provided by my employer.

Blue collar jobs will still require travel - but we surely can get by with a few million less 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickup trucks being driven around for personal transportation.

In the 1960's when I began driving, I remember gasoline for $0.18 per gallon in the MidWest. That broke the $1/gallon barrier in the before-mentioned energy crises of the 1970's. They produced modification kits for the old gas pumps that had cogwheels like a mechanical odometer, to add another digit.

Gasoline pricing peaked earlier this decade at $4.46/gallon, and is presently $3.36, an astonishing 1866% increase since I began driving. From this I conclude that any price change is survivable as long as it is gradual enough. $20/gallon in 20 years is doable.

In the end, Doom is a relative term. For the sake of your mental health, do not get personally invested in Doom arriving any time soon. The things you should do include minimizing your use of energy, increasing your self-reliance, and staying out of debt. Those things are fine goals even if no catastrophe befalls us, ever.

It's amusing to note that the "Doom" scenario we are talking about will pretty much settle the fundamental Democrat vs. Republican chasm in this country. When retired, those differences simplify wonderfully, we divide into those actively caring for themselves (Republicans) and those waiting for the Nanny Government to act (Democrats). Kinda like it was in New Orleans after the hurricane, when unbelieving residents emerged from their dark homes, after futilely waiting for power, water, and food. Their Nanny did not show up for work. Then when she finally did show, it was in the form of armed troops, enforcing anti-looting edicts as they "rescued" people, taking them to a version of "Hell on Earth" (the Superdome). Nor will she be there when gasoline is $20/gallon or $50/gallon.

As for free Tesla's - get real. You won't get free drinking water, much less a car. I told you, your Nanny will quit coming to work, didn't I? The only government official you will ever see is a tax collector. Don't you understand yet, the "benefit" the government provides is taking your money, so you don't have to worry about spending it yourself.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Fri 06 Mar 2015, 17:18:43

KaiserJeep wrote:It's amusing to note that the "Doom" scenario we are talking about will pretty much settle the fundamental Democrat vs. Republican chasm in this country. When retired, those differences simplify wonderfully, we divide into those actively caring for themselves (Republicans) and those waiting for the Nanny Government to act (Democrats).
Kinda like it was in New Orleans after the hurricane, when unbelieving residents emerged from their dark homes, after futilely waiting for power, water, and food. Their Nanny did not show up for work.
Then when she finally did show, it was in the form of armed troops, enforcing anti-looting edicts as they "rescued" people, taking them to a version of "Hell on Earth" (the Superdome). Nor will she be there when gasoline is $20/gallon or $50/gallon.

Don't you understand yet, the "benefit" the government provides is taking your money, so you don't have to worry about spending it yourself.

Comparing that to the government response in Australia to the Queensland floods was chalk and cheese and makes me glad I live in Australia.
The troops came to deliver food and clear mess ,people from all over the country came to help clean up.
There was no murders or looting
The government handed out money to those in need.
Infrastructure was quickly rebuilt and redesigned.
It was heart warming.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Fri 06 Mar 2015, 17:43:11

frankthetank wrote:Its all timing. Yes there will be collapse...but when? What is the definition of a collapse? No food in the grocery store, no gasoline at the gas station, no jobs? Fossil fuels...they will run out. Oil, then gas, then coal. The trees (given the manpower/equipment) will be mowed down for fuel..nuclear plants will melt down when people flee from the marauding gangs. Solar power, wind power will be stolen, sabotaged. Hydro plants will collapse due to leaks, earthquakes, silting, drought. 6 billion humans... no let up in birth rate that i can see. That isn't a solution either. Planet full of senior citizens? That will work. Who does the heavy lifting? Chappie? These clowns and their futuristic visions of cities on Mars, fusion reactors, robots doing all the work...good luck. Even the 1% are screwed when their bodyguards/armies flee. Hard to defend wealth against savages with sharpened bones and rocks.

MSM is owned by the .001% ...they have reasons to keep bau going.

Yes, the collapse is defined by " no food in the grocery store, no gasoline in gas stations, and no jobs" pretty much in summary. There are probably other ways you can define it, but that's the simplest way to define it.

As for trees used for energy, we will quickly run out of trees if we were to rely on wood as fuel again. Europe nearly ran out of trees for wood right before the industrial revolution, and the only thing that saved them from a fuel crisis was the burning of soft coal. But coal will eventually become too scarce, meaning you need to go back to burning wood, meaning you will run out of wood. Meaning you will run out of things to burn, and at the point, you are totally screwed no matter what you do.

Your collapse scenario is pretty accurate. Things will break down slowly, and they are already starting to break down. Our social security and pensions are being slowly taken away from us because the government doesn't have enough tax payer money to fund those services anymore. They don't have enough money because people are losing jobs. People are losing jobs because of increasing oil prices over the years. Eventually, virtually everyone will become unemployed because guess what? All your jobs come from oil, too! Take the oil away slowly, and you will slowly lose all of your jobs and everything else you take for granted like food, clean water, medicine, electricity and etc.
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby JuanP » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 12:36:02

"Human stupidity has no limits" JuanP
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Re: Mainstream media thinks there will be no catastrophe & d

Unread postby DesuMaiden » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 13:00:37

JuanP wrote:Check out this, http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html

I already read it.
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