[Cid_Yama]

The United States plans to store heavy military equipment in the Baltics and Eastern Europe, a senior U.S. official said on Saturday. "We will pre-position significant equipment," the official said.

The report said the move, if approved, would mark the first time since the Cold War that Washington has stationed heavy military equipment in the newer NATO member states in Eastern Europe that once formed part of the Soviet sphere of influence.

The proposal is expected to be approved by U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter and the White House before a NATO defense ministers' meeting in Brussels this month, the paper said, quoting senior officials.

link

And it begins again. Maybe WWIII will finish us off after all.

[Sixstrings]

And it begins again.

We didn't re-start the cold war again, Putin did.

I'm all for the 99% by the way but that also includes 99% in the Baltics and Swedes that don't want Russian submarines in their harbors and don't ever want foreign tanks rolling across the border uninvited.

The American tanks were invited.

This is just a "is what it is" situation. US military is going to position wherever there is a problem, if there were not a problem, the miltiary would not be there. The objective truth is that nobody was planning or wanting a cold war with Russia.

I've said this a long time ago, in the Ukraine threads, that if Putin keeps making noise in east europe then the US ship of state turns slowly but yes it will eventually turn to go face that. This is just how it is. We didn't start this. We are only responding to it.

Cid, you and me agree on domestic things but I'm more of a FDR democrat.

My only issue about more US military in Europe is just that we have to pay for all this and it's actually not fair. Europe needs to pay more, really Europe should get it together and have its own European Army, really there should not be heavy US arms in east Europe. EU, as a whole, is wealthier than we are. But they give their people free education and all kinds of bennies and barely spend on any military at all, while we over here have to go without so we can fund this military to defend everyone -- that situation really cannot continue forever, it's not fair.

But I'm not against it, on principle, making people in the Baltics, and in Sweden, or Poland, feel more secure. They are our allies.

I think what you do Cid is just always think this is all the USA, you do not recognize there really are real people in Sweden, in Finland, in the Baltics, in East Europe, that are concerned.

P.S. this really is not a big deal or unreasonable. We drew down after the cold war, Putin started it up again, so okay we are putting some more forces into europe again. It's purely defensive, and reactionary to what Russia does. If Putin hadn't done all these things the past couple years, then these extra American forces would not be there, simple as that. Because otherwise we actually have cut the defense budget (sequester) and the Pentagon would prefer areas in the world that it could draw down from. Russia became a NEW problem, on the oven burners, it had been filed away to an old problem and we adjusted to that being done with but here it is again.

I'm not really sure what you would want, Cid. Can you spell it out. Should we not have allies like Japan and South Korea and Australia. Should we dismantle nato. Should we pull back from everywhere, be isolationist and let the allies step up for themselves and make new arrangements amongst themselves, without us? (I'd almost agree with that, I can understand that view)

Do you think war is less likely, just because America pulls back? France and the UK have nukes, too. If European NATO had to go to war with Russia on its own, they'd be very weak without us. Russia could win that kind of war, sans United States. So how would that be safer. Then a France or UK may have to use their nukes, because otherwise they do not have enough conventional military to repel an invasion.

I'm just not sure what your position is, Cid, that's all. Is it totally isolationist. When would you use the military, under what circumstances? Is it all our fault and we're the bad guy, if europeans ask us to place more forces there?

[sparky]

.
Can't have a war without the gear , the US Army is notoriously tail heavy
having equipment ready give a simple and clear message ,
"we are one hour drive to St Petersburg"
that's Washington position , smile , profess peaceful intent and hold a gun on the Russian neck

[Plantagenet]

Experience has taught us that preparedness deters aggression and that weakness invites it.
Ronald Reagan
October 12, 1988

Putin took Obama's measure and decided Obama was weak. Obama's weakness "invited" Putin to become more aggressive. Putin gambled that he could invade Crimea without Obama and the EU responding in any strong way. And just as Putin had anticipated, Obama did nothing---maybe he thought he could "appease" Putin by letting him have Crimea. It didn't work---Obama's weakness after the Crimea invasion just encouraged Putin to invade eastern Ukraine.

Now Putin has just sent tanks and more troops into eastern Ukraine for a new offensive. After he takes as much of Ukraine as he wants, who knows what Putin will do next. No wonder Finland, Sweden, the Baltic States, Poland etc. are very very nervous.

Obama is the weakest President since Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately, Obama's weakness and appeasement have triggered new aggression from Russia. Welcome to the new cold war with Russia.

[radon1]

Finland, Sweden, the Baltic States, Poland etc.

Russia

Who are all these people?

[sparky]

.
For anyone who had some doubt about giving any idiots the right to vote
a fake Obama supporter canvass a petition for a nuclear first strike on Russia
did he get lynched ...??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNr5czZKEdk

[Sixstrings]

Experience has taught us that preparedness deters aggression and that weakness invites it.
Ronald Reagan
October 12, 1988

Reagan's "evil empire" speech:

Let us be aware that while they preach the supremacy of the state, declare its omnipotence over individual man, and predict its eventual domination of all peoples on the Earth, they are the focus of evil in the modern world.

It was C. S. Lewis who, in his unforgettable ''Screwtape Letters'', wrote: ``The greatest evil is not done now in those sordid `dens of crime' that Dickens loved to paint. It is not even done in concentration camps and labor camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice.''

Well, because these ``quiet men'' do not ``raise their voices,'' because they sometimes speak in soothing tones of brotherhood and peace, because, like other dictators before them, they're always making ``their final territorial demand,'' some would have us accept them at their word and accommodate ourselves to their aggressive impulses. But if history teaches anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. It means the betrayal of our past, the squandering of our freedom.

So, I urge you to speak out against those who would place the United States in a position of military and moral inferiority. You know, I've always believed that old Screwtape reserved his best efforts for those of you in the church. So, in your discussions of the nuclear freeze proposals, I urge you to beware the temptation of pride -- the temptation of blithely declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire, to simply call the arms race a giant misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong and good and evil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0NXs_uWPgg

I am for Bernie Sanders, but just to be clear, I do believe that democracy and freedom are superior to any other ideology.

Whether that is the communist-nationalist hybrid party in Beijing, or the right wing nationalist government in the kremlin, or terrorist caliphs and ayatollahs in the middle east.

Poland is worth defending. Sweden is worth defending. Freedom is worth defending. Democracy is worth defending, despite all its faults, it's the best and it is what is right in a world that would just go all wrong without it.

That's just my opinion, and I just sincerely hope the kremlin never gets confused and ever thinks that Poland would not be defended.

They should look in their history books and read about all the other wars where somebody started grabbing Poland -- seriously, Russia, leave your neighbors alone. Just stop it.

[SeaGypsy]

Sparky! Classic f'd up stuff from the motherland of Freedom! Wonder how many of them folks have an arsenal at home?

[Whitefang]

Looking back it looks like our western management started this idiocy of terror worldwide.
Former Yougoslavia and eastern Europe under banking control, one euro currency........
Then 911 bombing US civilians, an act of civil warfare. Scare your slaves to take and do as you please. Middle East warfare, Lybia sweet oil, Egypt control.
Bilderberg is now discussing a Trans Atlantic Union in Austria, dollar/euro blending into new El Globo currency with a chip in body system?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/secret-war- ... -cash.html

Anyway, it looks like the only opposition of our dictatorship is Russia/China/Iran/Syria.
Turkey/Greece/India are on the brink of leaving our worker-paradise
They have their own local petty little tyrants doing what they do, opposames.

We will go to war and disaster, Europe a battlefield as before no doubt, no way we will have another decade of peace. Decisions have been made, no way back now.
Our management wants this war, a tool to get absolute control over everything.
They are in a hurry with abrupt CC, they must have been thinking to have decades to gradually go for martial law. Even they cannot keep it together, our police/militants are unprepared for abrupt change. We have all run out of time, surpressors and surpressed.

Smart, prepared Jews fled West before the war......

[Sixstrings]

Some concerning recent developments:

China confirms test of supersonic nuclear delivery vehicle; US calls it 'Extreme Manoeuvre'
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-china-confirms-test-of-supersonic-nuclear-delivery-vehicle-us-calls-it-extreme-manoeuvre-2095424

Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/14/russia-and-china-broke-into-snowden-files-to-identify-british-and-us-spies

And then the recent hack of 4,000,000 US federal employees' personal information, along with all the federal gov retirees going back to 1985:

US official on China hacking government database: 'This is deep'

"This is deep. The data goes back to 1985," said one official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "This means that they potentially have information about retirees, and they could know what they did after leaving government."

Access to information from OPM's computers, such as birthdates, Social Security numbers, and bank information, could help hackers test potential passwords to other sites, including those containing information about critical weapons systems, the official said.

"That could give them a huge advantage," the official said.
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-data-obtained-in-us-government-hack-dates-back-to-1985-us-official-2015-6

[Tanada]

.
For anyone who had some doubt about giving any idiots the right to vote
a fake Obama supporter canvass a petition for a nuclear first strike on Russia
did he get lynched ...??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNr5czZKEdk

Think about it, half of the American voters who lived through the Cold War never believed it would go hot, and now you have a full generation of young adults who were born and grew up after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. Pretty much anyone born from 1980 onward grew up after anyone though nuclear war was a serious possibility. Sure they were 9 when the wall fell, how many 9 year olds do you know who have any idea of war and its consequences unless mom or dad is in active military service during their childhood?

Our school system doesn't teach anything realistic about war, just a few dry facts and figures in history class. The horrible pictures from World War II of destroyed cities or Viet Nam of burning villages have mostly been filed away as too scary for youngsters. Video game war might immerse you in the game, but there are never consequences to wounding or death, you just start over again.

This type of obliviousness is what leads to war. If you look at the last two decades the total number of American casualties is under 100,000, that is under 5,000 per year. Almost ten times that many die from traffic accidents every year, the number is so low it is hidden in the statistical noise.

War is not Chess, you can not pick up your pieces and just go home afterwards. Real people die or get permanently damaged. Real ammunition gets used against real targets that get really destroyed and have to be rebuilt after all is done.

[sparky]

.
I should come as no surprise that the old world is in a bit of a pickle
the folks at home would have to be told some pretty harsh truths , there is no money !
the end of growth , the global credit card is maxed
one solution .....let's all pull together against the bad guys , any bad guys would do
not China , we own them too much , Muslim ragheads are not fun at all
Russians are perfect , they are white ( but not too much ) Christians ( but not too much )
big ( but not too much ) and they don't even speak English !!

Onward christian soldiers , your sons will be better Dying there than rioting in our street
What the world need is a good war , always was good for business , just ask the Pentagon

[Subjectivist]

.
I should come as no surprise that the old world is in a bit of a pickle
the folks at home would have to be told some pretty harsh truths , there is no money !
the end of growth , the global credit card is maxed
one solution .....let's all pull together against the bad guys , any bad guys would do
not China , we own them too much , Muslim ragheads are not fun at all
Russians are perfect , they are white ( but not too much ) Christians ( but not too much )
big ( but not too much ) and they don't even speak English !!

Onward christian soldiers , your sons will be better Dying there than rioting in our street
What the world need is a good war , always was good for business , just ask the Pentagon

Hymn of the Friendlies by Gordon R. Dickson, within book of the same title (1923–2001), published 1965

Soldier, ask not - now, or ever,
Where to war your banners go.
Anarch's legions all surround us.
Strike - and do not count the blow!

Glory, honor, praise and profit,
Are but toys of tinsel worth.
Render up your work, unasking,
Leave the human clay to earth.

Blood and sorrow, pain unending,
Are the portion of us all.
Grasp the naked sword, opposing,
Gladly in the battle fall.

So shall we, anointed soldiers,
Stand at last before the Throne,
Baptized in our wounds, red-flowing,
Sealed unto our Lord - alone!

[Withnail]

Some concerning recent developments:

China confirms test of supersonic nuclear delivery vehicle; US calls it 'Extreme Manoeuvre'
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-china-confirms-test-of-supersonic-nuclear-delivery-vehicle-us-calls-it-extreme-manoeuvre-2095424

Russia and China broke into Snowden files to identify western spies, says MI6
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/14/russia-and-china-broke-into-snowden-files-to-identify-british-and-us-spies

You will soon be licking the boots of Chinese officials, just as you lick the boots of American officals now.

I'm sure the leather will taste the same.

[ennui2]

The one thing I will expect to read when I come here is copy-and-pasted news reports intended to show us how WWIII will break out, usually with a slant that blames the West for it. But WWIII never happens. It's not going to happen.

There will be conflicts, but they won't be WWIII, and they'll all pass.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Cid_Yama]

Do you know how stupid you sound with your logical fallacy. Duh, it never happened before, means it will never happen.

The thing that kept you alive for the last quarter of a century has been the CFE treaty, now trashed by the US and NATO.

My life's work undermined. But that's ok. My life's work allowed MY generation to live out a full life. Good luck to finding your way through the clusterfuck you've created over the last 20 years. Your future is now in YOUR hands.

This world probably doesn't even have a decade left, and most of what will kill you is beyond remedy. But this was one, already avoided, put back on the table.

All the glorious works of man came from the few who were truly alive each generation. I thought, like Lot, that that few made up for the supreme idiocy of the vast majority. I honor THEIR accomplishments, but I have decided for myself, that the rest deserve their fate.

Die like a sniveling coward with your head in the sand, denying existence. Drag down the exalted few and their accomplishments. Crush them for exposing, by comparison, your stunted shriveled existence. You do not deserve them or their accomplishments. Instead of following their example, you've burned them at the stake, trampled them underfoot.

Their accomplishments are not yours. You are a mean, spiteful, lowly species, deserving only the muck in which you thrive.

Die on your bellies, because you did not choose to rise up. The potential of man does not excuse their failure to attempt to achieve it.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

I just don't get how people who believe the world is ending in short order get can get worked up about totally innocuous posts from anonymous, faceless individuals.

For all we know, ennui could be a 12-year-old kid posting from his parents basement. You can be whoever you'd like on the internet. Yet, Cid has self-righteously bestowed such egregious and heinous intentions on him/her...from one post. Talk about delusion of grandeur.

For all the old people, what was the equivalent of this before the days of internet chat rooms?

[sparky]

.
against the neocons hysteria , the moderating voices of big oil !

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/1 ... RO20150614

they know the score , no amount of rhetoric has ever moved a car

[Cid_Yama]

Only the first paragraph was directed at ennui2. The rest was a cathartic moment.

Not that I didn't mean it. I meant every word.

I wasn't judging one individual, I was pronouncing MY judgment on mankind. MY judgment to which I have a right. A right that each of you have, that most of you don't exercise.

How dare me? How dare I have an opinion that is not determined by others. An opinion that may not even be liked by others. Oh, the horror.

I must be one of those awful people you're not supposed to associate with.