Tikib wrote:There isn't enough extra oil coming out of saudi/shale to create as sustained a period of low oil prices if demand wasn't decreasing as well.
Tikib wrote: we need to .... reduce oil usage now
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
If you took that same TRILLION dollars of stimulus from 2008-2009 and instead subsidized fuel at the pump
ennui2 wrote:If you took that same TRILLION dollars of stimulus from 2008-2009 and instead subsidized fuel at the pump
And whither goes concern for global warming in all of this?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
onlooker wrote:Very true as evidenced by the general worldwide economic slowdown and also by the fact that while oil prices are lower they are NOT low. Therefore, that is also dampening demand.
Tikib wrote:Whilst this website is obsessed with the idea of peak oil, I am pretty sure we have now gone past peak demand for oil as the world moves towards alternatives.
onlooker wrote:Yes Ennui on more careful inspection your right. Yet we also know that not too much higher truly knocks the Economy off it's kilter as evidenced by the shock waves when it reached $147. It seems other factors like onerous debt are having a more pronounced effect on the economy yet oil price cannot but always be a integral part of any economic outlook and current condition.
ennui2 wrote:I used to think that $150 oil would stop the combines from reaping wheat and stop trucks from delivering goods to supermarkets but basic necessities are less sensitive to oil shocks than that.
Subjectivist wrote:ennui2 wrote:I used to think that $150 oil would stop the combines from reaping wheat and stop trucks from delivering goods to supermarkets but basic necessities are less sensitive to oil shocks than that.
I never thought that because it violates human nature. The humans who are in charge in general got where they are through a lot of wheeling and dealing, and they want very much to stay in charge. That means you have to keep the majority of Joe6P contented, and that means food has to be grown or imported and delivered to the people.
ennui2 wrote:Subjectivist wrote:ennui2 wrote:I used to think that $150 oil would stop the combines from reaping wheat and stop trucks from delivering goods to supermarkets but basic necessities are less sensitive to oil shocks than that.
I never thought that because it violates human nature. The humans who are in charge in general got where they are through a lot of wheeling and dealing, and they want very much to stay in charge. That means you have to keep the majority of Joe6P contented, and that means food has to be grown or imported and delivered to the people.
That argument makes no sense. Just because TPTB want Joe6P contented doesn't mean they can trump the laws of thermodynamics. The rhetoric behind peak oil was that we convert oil into food. Less oil = less food. That's where the survival gardening meme kicks in. And I learned that food production and food prices are less impacted by oil prices than the doomer hype indicated. Not that prices didn't go up, but not painfully so, and not to the point where we started to see shortages at the grocery store.
BAU has a breaking point and I don't think $150 is it. It's a pain-point, an adaptation point, but not a breaking point.
If you want to follow the logic of your argument, we would, for instance, eventually see rationing type measures like the current water-restrictions happening in California. We saw none of that in the agricultural sector in 2008. Standard supply and demand was in effect. In fact we saw a move to biofuels like corn ethanol, indicating that the US was still producing a huge surplus of food. The shortages happened when we could export less to the rest of the world, who are far less able to feed themselves.
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