[Sixstrings]

Stop demanding safe spaces

How do you define a safe space on a college campus?

...

Let’s say you’re in a safe space, and you have someone who is being fully expressed as a homosexual, and another person being fully expressed as a homophobic, and they are in the same space; who do you tell to leave? In my opinion, safe spaces are designed to be inclusive, yet at the same time they are inherently exclusive.
http://www.quchronicle.com/2015/11/stop-demanding-safe-spaces/

Do any of you guys understand this "safe space" thing? Because I can't figure it out.

Exhibit (a), group of students very upset with their professor for not creating a "safe space" for them and they keep demanding an apology, and he keeps apologizing, but I can't figure out what the guy did wrong to start with:

Yale Students Whine and Moan About a Lack of Safe Space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsgc0k594Js

[edit: I had to watch this a few times to finally understand it.. okay, the professor reasonably says he can't always apologize instantly without even knowing what it is he did wrong. And then later, it all escalates and the professor says that "other people have rights too" and then the one student yells at him "be quiet!" and she tells him it's his job as a professor to create a place of comfort and home. And then she goes ballistic and starts cursing him, yelling and screaming. Here's what I don't understand, what about the prof's right to a "safe space?"]

Exhibit (b), Asian student is trying to "fully actualize" and express herself in "the safe space" but then she says something wrong and the crowd starts booing her (how is that fair, this woman is trying to express herself in the "safe space" so why are they booing her now, I'm so confused by it):

"Safe Space" Students Silence Asian Woman For Saying "Black People Can Be Racist"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8UTj8lQJhY

Exhibit (c), Southpark's explanation of a "safe space:"

South Park - Safe Space - "In My Safe Space"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

[SeaGypsy]

It is a very simple concept which actually requires very high levels of sophistication- simply there should not be any form of abuse, physical, verbal, psychological, emotional, social.

Suppression is a very basic form of abuse. The safe spaces concept aims to undo this primal form of abuse & ensure communication is upheld as a human right. It also aims to foster political & general social maturity.

Unfortunately so called safe spaces attract trolls like, well, AGW.

[Cog]

Blacks want to segregate themselves. It is as simple as that. Very bizarre when you think about the civil rights struggles in the 60's.

[davep]

Yes, all of them.

[ROCKMAN]

From the link this is their definition of "safe space": The only place I could find a credible definition is on Advocates for Youth, where it is defined as a place where anyone can feel relaxed and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcomed or unsafe on account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background, age, or physical or mental ability."

Obviously such a space cannot exist unless there are severe restrictions on who is allowed to enter. A white person who hates all blacks who might express (as the definition allows "expression") their feelings can not be allowed in if blacks are present. Like wise for blacks who hate all Asians, Baptists that hate all Catholics, Irish that the all English (which is completely justified. LOL), etc.

Thus I assume what those student are demanding as safe spaces is a spot where only folks are allowed that have very similar viewpoints. That shouldn't be a problem: just establish several dozen safe spaces on campus and assign each person in a group their own registration number. And to make it easier to ID folks who don't belong in your safe space you can have their registration number tattooed on the forearm. That system worked pretty good for the Nazis. LOL.

[Sixstrings]

I looked it up on wiki:

Origin and History[edit]

The concept originated in the women's movement, where it "implies a certain license to speak and act freely, form collective strength, and generate strategies for resistance...a means rather than an end and not only a physical space but also a space created by the coming together of women searching for community."[3] The first safe spaces were gay bars and consciousness raising groups.[3]

In 1989 Gay & Lesbian Urban Explorers (GLUE) developed a safe spaces program. During their events including diversity-training sessions and antihomophobia workshops, they passed out magnets with an inverted pink triangle, "ACT UP's...symbol", surrounded by a green circle to, "symbolize universal acceptance," and asked, "allies to display the magnets to show support for gay rights and to designate their work spaces free from homophobia."[4]
Rationale[edit]

In gay-only groups, the desire for safe space may represent a "special ritual time spent in a ritual space" where "heterosexuals are cautiously avoided".[5] However, this may allow the comfort necessary for other actions. Mike Homfray observes, "Gay and lesbian people may perceive the pub or bar as being 'their' space, and so as somewhere they can 'perform' and be open without the fear of rejection or hostility from the heterosexual majority, which may be perceived as hostile." Homfray adds, "In this situation, the perception of safe gay space can allow the development of a sense of community and confidence, which in turn may contribute to the creation of rights-based movements."[6]
Other countries[edit]
Canada[edit]

Positive Space initiatives are prevalent in post-secondary institutions across Canada including McGill University, the University of Toronto, the University of British Columbia, and Queen's University.[7][8][9]
United Kingdom[edit]

In early 2015 the increasing adoption of safe spaces in UK universities aroused controversy due to accusations that they were used to stifle free speech and differing political views.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space

So, the origins were in the womens' movement and then gay rights. At one time, women actually were oppressed and not free to speak up and be equals. If a woman in the 1950s-1970s then went to a womens' lib group meeting then that would be a "safe space" where they can be fully themselves and not repressed.

So, this kind of thing starts out as reasonable when really though it never needed a special name and whole ideology and psychology added on top of it -- it's just basic group dynamics. A minority group, that's living in a majority group.

It can apply to anything, like religion, how Rock mentioned.

A Catholic church would be a "safe space" for Catholics to be fully Catholic -- so if a Baptist is in a Catholic church, then the baptist knows he's on THEIR territory and should be extra respectful and considerate.

He may not be Catholic, he may think different and never agree with them or ever want to become Catholic, but he CAN show respect and consideration when he's on THEIR turf.

So okay that makes sense. Except that a college campus isn't supposed to be any one group's "turf" but rather that's general public "general space" -- not any one group's "safe space."

The thing about "safe space" is that really it's an echo chamber. And conservatives have "safe spaces" too -- that would be listening to Rush Limbaugh and watching Fox News, or a particular forum etc. And then liberals have their echo chamber "safe spaces."

And then maybe ten different people are going to ten different religious churches on Sunday and all have their "safe spaces" where that's THEIR turf and they don't have to accommodate the views of other groups.

The problem with school campuses though, is that if a whole class just calls a campus-wide "safe space" then that's denying the fact there's a larger general public sphere as opposed to individual group-spheres. They want to make their "safe space" the larger general public one -- that EVERYONE has to adhere to.

So that's the root of "politically correct," it's really the same thing as if Baptists just wanted everyone to be baptists -- if one particular religion wanted to take the "safe space" from their church and expand that circle out covering everybody else.

If you watch the videos I linked, the "safe spaces" turn intolerant -- it's like a church, that cannot accept dissent and everyone has to be on the same page.

The one student utterly flipped out when the prof said "but other people have rights too." What she WANTS, and is demanding, is that the prof accept that HER GROUP's "safe space" is now the "general space" -- and that he no longer has a right to dissent.

In the other video, the Chinese immigrant student tells a story about an african american that told her "go back to where you came from" and then she said "black people can be racist too" -- and that's when the whole group turned on her, because that's not an acceptable view in their "safe space."

So that's what it amounts to.

We have a "general space" in society where everyone has to be respected and people have a right to differ and everyone has rights and everyone has to accept everyone else's rights.

And then we have "safe spaces" where we can choose to congregate into smaller groups where everyone is just like us and thinks like us.

But what's really not right is for the smaller "safe space" groups to try to make their "safe space" the "general space" that EVERYONE has to adhere to.

Safe space actually = intolerance. Safe space isn't just asking for tolerance, but rather ADHERENCE.

Rather than safe spaces in the schools, like a sign on the class door outright declaring it's a "safe space" (in other words, the sign may as well say this class has now been taken over by Baptists and this sign is telling you that).. rather than that, we should just be teaching students old fashioned POLITENESS and CIVILITY and etiquette and what tolerance and just being NICE IS.

The safe space groups, shouting down and cursing at their teacher -- that ain't even civility, or a modicrum of respect for authority, or just plain politeness or any recognition of what the professor said -- that "other people have rights too."

[Plantagenet]

Safe space actually = intolerance. Safe space isn't just asking for tolerance, but rather ADHERENCE.

Yup.

This is much like Moslems claiming that Islam is the religion of peace. When you research it bit it means that Moslems can go on jihad and kill and murder idolators, Jew, infidels, and other unbelievers at any time, but once everyone is a Muslim, then there will be peace.

[Sixstrings]

Here's a "safe space" sign:



Now when it's just this kind of sign in the next picture, that's reasonable, if it's a place that's having a problem with people being bullies on a particular group:



Now see I'm cool with that, and that would be analogous to 1950s when there was so much racism and it needed to be fought -- a teacher could just put up a sign saying "look, no racism in this class."

So that's fine. But compare that to the first sign, and see the evolution that happens -- it goes from "no homophobia" to then saying "it ain't even good enough if you have a gay best friend." And the sign demands that anyone that's not in the listed special categories, fess up to their "privilege" as being a boring dull person that's not transgender or anything interesting -- the movement that starts out about tolerance, turns to oppression.

Now, take a look at this "safe space" classroom sign. This one is more along of the lines of "respect everyone and be nice" but yet it's got a tinge of coddling to it and encouraging entitlement by adding that "everyone is *important*" part:



It's like how some schools don't allow trophies or grades or rankings, as that would make those at the bottom feel bad.

Folks look, you wanna know what they do in South Korea? They work their kids' fingers to the bone, even third graders studying from dawn until midnight. And the parents yell at them if they get a "B" because second place isn't good enough. That entire nation is workaholic and focused on success, and the place gets results for all that hard effort.

I wouldn't be for that kind of extreme, but I'm not for the other extreme either -- with so much coddling, and entitlement, and "everyone is special and important." Uhm, no, people have to DO SOMETHING to earn "being special."

The messaging is just all screwed up, is all. Rather than all self esteem focus, the schools should just make it a priority for the kids to find what fields and talents they can be special at -- not just tell them they are special.

[Sixstrings]

Here's an article about history classes and how they have to be careful not to "trigger" trauma in anyone:

Trauma and Trigger Warnings in the History Classroom: A Roundtable Discussion

For the past several years, historians have discussed and debated the teaching of violent and traumatic subjects in the classroom; the need to protect students, including those diagnosed with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), from being traumatized in the classroom; and the use of classroom trigger warnings designed to warn students about potentially traumatic lectures, discussions, or images. These issues have been discussed in mainstream and academic publications (both print and online) and debated by historians and other academics on social media. While some historians have spoken up on behalf of protecting students through the use of trigger warnings, others have criticized and even mocked the idea.
http://tah.oah.org/may-2015/trauma-and-trigger-warnings-in-the-history-classroom/

"Trigger warnings" during classroom teaching. This stuff is just NUTS.

[Cog]

of course it is crazy there is no First Amendment right not to be offended. I have searched diligently in the Constitution and no such right exist. one does not go out of their way to offend people. but the black lives matter folks don't want you to even be around them. I find that very offensive.

[Sixstrings]

I just wish people could drop the "safe space" and communist stuff you see in some far left groups, where you can't even clap because that's "offensive" and that's why they snap fingers instead.

And then the "feel guilty because you are privileged" thing and then never-ending victim mentality stuff. It gets to be so bad that professors are just getting cursed and yelled at when they didn't even do anything wrong.

Rather than all the above, just get back to old fashioned etiquette and manners and civility and being nice and polite. Emily Post stuff, they should just be teaching the kids manners:



Old fashioned etiquette was developed for a reason, precisely so that people DON'T devolve into cursing and fistfights.

Old fashioned manners and being nice plus tolerance and no discrimination, and that's good enough.

The "safe space" groups actually get into the reverse, to where they are doing the discriminating and intolerance, and they become the bullies.

[Sixstrings]

but the black lives matter folks don't want you to even be around them.

edit: comment deleted, I really don't know where to go with this thread other than this super far left stuff is just nuts.

There's really not much to say other than that, I'll leave it at that.

(am I getting old maybe? this is just something I fundamentally DO NOT GET, the concept that a history teacher has to be careful about "triggers" in his history lesson and then give warnings ahead of time before the day's lesson etc. It's just all so nuts, it's so crazy you can't even have a discussion about it, it's that crazy.

And then I was reading an article about the university of vermont and how they have a retreat for white students to "reflect on their white privilege." I'm not making race comments in this thread, I'm just saying this stuff is crazy. Anyone, of any minority, should see how crazy it is.

This stuff is so nuts, you can't even have a debate against it, what can you say? It's just crazy.

Maybe what's going on is just a general resurgence of crazy 1960s super far left way far out hippy stuff, and all that was before my time, so if this is all coming back then it's new to me.

But weren't all the battles won? Doesn't everyone have equality now? So what are the new battles about, precisely?)

[Plantagenet]

the "feel guilty because you are privileged" thing

Actually liberals are mainly concerned with what they call "white privilege"

These liberals are incredibly racist. They believe that successful white people do well not because they work hard or study hard, but only because their skin is white, i.e. they have "white privilege.


Safe spaces for me but not for thee

[Plantagenet]

College kids in Portland Oregon called the police because someone said mean and insensitive things on social media. They felt the mean statements intruded on their "safe space" at Lewis and Clark University.

portland-social-media-police

Now we know why there are so few young people here at peak oil.com----its not a "safe space" for them."

[Quinny]

Although I would avoid safe spaces like the plague, I understand that some people feel a need for them and the mocking attitude here shows just how insecure some people are. I mean being scared of safe spaces - how ridiculous!

From someone who sang United songs on the Kop - one of our mods would understand this

[Subjectivist]

College kids in Portland Oregon called the police because someone said mean and insensitive things on social media. They felt the mean statements intruded on their "safe space" at Lewis and Clark University.

portland-social-media-police

Now we know why there are so few young people here at peak oil.com----its not a "safe space" for them."

When I was growing up we see to chant sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. Of course we could still get hurt feelings, but we learned how to deal with them emotionally as part of our normal childhood development.

Now we have a whole generation that are not going through the normal process of learning how to cope with emotional distress.

[Sixstrings]

Although I would avoid safe spaces like the plague, I understand that some people feel a need for them and the mocking attitude here shows just how insecure some people are. I mean being scared of safe spaces - how ridiculous!

Did you watch the two videos at the top of the thread? At least watch the first one.

Those "safe spaces" were actually being either abusive or oppressive. To a professor, and the second wasn't bad but they shut that Chinese girl down when she was trying to honestly say what happened to her. She had a story of racism that came from an african american and that was the story she wanted to tell, but that wasn't okay in that safe space group.

If you watch that second video, you can see the dynamic going on there.. the Chinese girl is saying she was an honest victim about something, but then the other girl I guess thinks that african americans are more of a victim in general and that's why the chinese girl can't tell her story that way.

edit: and by the way, this is a national issue right now. Safe space things are popping up and I'm just trying to understand it all.

Why can't we just say "be nice" and "be polite," what's with this whole safe space thing, and it's like the professor said "other people have rights too." We already have words for all this, it's called courtesy, we don't need new words -- courtesy requires that all parties are being nice and listening to each other, whereas the "safe space" thing is just flying off into a whole other direction that seems like acceptable versus unacceptable word usage and views and thoughts that go against whoever the safe space leader is.

The whole thing's just getting too nuts, if it's about "safe space" from slurs and rudeness then okay I'm all for that but then it gets extended out to crazy levels. The issue in the Yale video was something about opposition to the Haloween holiday, that it violated safe space.

[Sixstrings]

I mean being scared of safe spaces - how ridiculous!

And by the way I'm not scared of safe spaces ( ), although if I were a teacher and had a mob of kids demanding an apology and they're cussing and yelling and screaming safe space, I'd be just like the guy in that Yale video and I'd be bewildered at what they want an apology for. I'd probably feel unsafe, or at least harassed.

How was that "safe" for him? What about his feelings in the safe space, does he not matter?

Not to mention some common courtesy for people, not to mention respect for teachers, and not to yell at people in general and cuss at them.

How can someone cuss at another human being, using the F word and screaming, and claim it's in the interest of civility and "safe space?"

Here's the CRAZY thing about "safe space:"

* started out as womens rights and gay rights
* but then when that was done, now EVERYONE wants a "safe space"
* So NOW THE SAFE SPACE is that nobody can ever upset anyone, so it's a "safe space" from getting upset
* yet the "safe space people" still get upset no matter how safe the space is, watch that Yale video, the girl goes ballistic

Moreover, look at the whole "trigger word" thing in our colleges and schools, what is that about?

Do all of our kids have PTSD and / or anxiety disorder? Are they all autistic now? If that's the case then there's a bigger problem going on here, it's just not normal for most of a general population to have PTSD and history class has to do "trigger warnings."

* Lastly, the whole "safe space" / "trigger" thing seems like a far left communist cultish kind of thing, and it's just odd.

AND ABOVE ALL why can't they just have a sign on the class door that says something like what I learned in first grade, they used to just say "respect everyone" etc. and things like that. Just make the sign saying "this is a safe space where people are different but respect everyone."

That USED to be the message with this stuff, it was tolerance and multicultrual, and now the safe space sign has a whole list of ideologies on it.

I don't understand that.

Just have a safe space sign saying to be polite and respect everyone without it getting into crazy stuff where the students are so neurotic.

I'm all for people being nice and polite and caring about people but there's a difference between courtesy and someone else's neurotic "triggers" that don't even make sense.

I'm all for people being good to each other, but the Yale video I linked was the "safe space people" not treating another human being nice, at all. That's not right, you can't cuss at people in the name of "safe space" and the guy didn't even do anything wrong.

[Sixstrings]

College kids in Portland Oregon called the police because someone said mean and insensitive things on social media. They felt the mean statements intruded on their "safe space" at Lewis and Clark University.)

Now see that's ridiculous, that's what I'm talking about.

First people became hypersensitive about "facebook comments" and "someone is wrong on the internet"..

And then that got moved over to meatspace, and people want "safe spaces" everywhere they go where they can just click ignore on someone and never have to hear things they don't like, and perhaps the opposite is also true that online / social media culture have made people ruder.

So could be both things going on, breakdown in civility combined with a rise in sensitivity.

[Sixstrings]

An odd facet about the "safe space" thing is that the extreme far left is actually re-segregating people.

The "white priviledge" student retreat I mentioned, in Vermont, is "whites only." And this is a program of the college itself. And then, they have a "women of color" program that only women of color can be in.

Now here's an article about a "safe space" coffee shop that is "african american only," apparently white people aren't allowed:

SAFE SPACE SEGREGATION: COLLEGE COFFEE SHOP ONLY ALLOWS "PEOPLE OF COLOR"

Last week, the Motley Coffeehouse at Scripps College issued a statement on its official Facebook page, “The Motley sitting room will be open tonight from 6-10 only for people of color and allies that they invite. Please feel free to come and use the space for whatever you need – decompress, discuss, grieve, plan, support each other, etc. In solidarity.”
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/260850/safe-space-segregation-college-coffee-shop-only-daniel-greenfield

I'm all for people having movements about things.. but it seems like in the last 10 years, it's rebels without a cause.. things like "occupy" and now "safe spaces" and BLM where if you talk to them they don't actually have any specific ideas for things.

I do wish the Left would have a movement to get wages up, that's something that would help about a thousand different real problems going on in the US, including people of color. But no, it's just neurotic "safe space" stuff.

Why Only Free Speech Gives Safe Space to the Oppressed
http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/11/19/why-only-free-speech-gives-safe-space-to-the-oppressed/

College is the last place that should be a ‘safe space': A voice of protest against student protests
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/16/college-is-the-last-place-that-should-be-a-safe-space-a-voice-of-protest-against-student-protests/

Safe space vs. free speech? Waddle out of your comfort zone, kids
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/11/safe_space_vs_free_speech_that.html