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THE Islam Thread Pt 2

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THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 22 Oct 2013, 17:23:00

The Sultan of Brunei has announced tough new Islamic punishments as part of a new sharia penal code.

The punishments, which would only apply to Muslims, include death by stoning for adultery, flogging for drinking alcohol, and severing of limbs for theft.

Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah said the new laws would be enforced from April next year.

"It is because of our need that Allah the almighty, in all his generosity, has created laws for us, so that we can utilise them to obtain justice," the monarch said.

The oil-rich kingdom has been working for several years to introduce the new code.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/b ... ts/5039216

Great example to it's neighbors.
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Re: Brunei Implements Sharia Law- full Monty

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 22 Oct 2013, 17:27:37

SeaGypsy wrote:
The Sultan of Brunei has announced tough new Islamic punishments as part of a new sharia penal code.

The punishments, which would only apply to Muslims, include death by stoning for adultery, flogging for drinking alcohol, and severing of limbs for theft.

Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah said the new laws would be enforced from April next year.

"It is because of our need that Allah the almighty, in all his generosity, has created laws for us, so that we can utilise them to obtain justice," the monarch said.

The oil-rich kingdom has been working for several years to introduce the new code.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/b ... ts/5039216

Great example to it's neighbors.


Sounds like what they have been doing in Iran for many years so if anything they would be the example the others are following.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: THE Islam Thread (merged)

Unread postby EnviroEngr » Wed 11 Dec 2013, 17:55:43

You can follow Alishba. She has a pretty good road map of this topic:

http://secularlyyours.wordpress.com/
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Re: THE Islam Thread (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 11 Dec 2013, 18:02:45

My local cable company, Time Warner Cable is adding Al-Jazeera next month so I will be able to see a middle east perspective on things. Right now I am limited to North American (USA/Canada) and the BBC. YouTube gives me access some Australian/New Zealand/South African media but none of that is live.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 01:49:58

There is a massive 700 plus posts first section of this thread in Archives if anyone wants to look at it, but almost the entire thing is 2008 or earlier so I am not sure it is worth the effort.

With all the yelling and screaming going on about Islamic believers being brought into the USA I thought it would be wise to refresh my memory of the Muslim faith, which I have little used since the chapter on major religions in my history studies some 30 years ago.

In the course of my reading up on the subject today I discovered a little recognized fact. The group calling itself Nation of Islam is actually a small splinter group that started from the original Nation of Islam after 1979, when the original group changed its focus.
When W.D. (Wallace) Muhammad was installed as Supreme Minister of the Nation of Islam in 1975, he immediately began to reformulate his father's beliefs and practices to bring NOI closer to mainstream Sunni Islam. He renamed his organization a number of times, settling on the American Society of Muslims, and many of his followers assimilated into traditional Islam. Wallace Muhammad publicly shunned his father's theology and black separatist views, changed the spelling of his last name from the Nation’s preferred “Muhammad” to the older form “Mohammed,” accepted whites as fellow worshipers and attempted to forge closer ties with mainstream Muslim communities in the United States. Wallace later changed his own name to Warith Deen Mohammed.


In all Imam Mohammed lead about 200,000 of the 220,000 members of the Nation of Islam into a much more traditional form of Sunni Islam, almost doubling the Sunni population of the USA within three years of his becoming the leader of the movement. As late as 2005 this mass influx of former Nation of Islam members made up a third of all Sunni Muslims in the total USA population. Even today after large numbers of Asian and Middle Eastern Muslims have emigrated to the USA the former Nation of Islam members and their converts make up 24 percent of the total Muslim population of the country.

Despite the name Nation of Islam being used by that group they are not very much like mainstream Sunni's, they believe in Black Supremacy and still call for a separation of the 'races' as reparations for slavery and other past transgressions. In 2010 they alienated most mainstream Muslims by getting involved with Dianetics, the religion based on the books of L. Ron Hubbard.

Basically if all you know about Islam is what you have heard from leaders like Louis Farrakhan
or those who criticize him you don't know much about actual Islam.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 02:18:27

Tanada wrote:if all you know about Islam is what you have heard from leaders like Louis Farrakhan
or those who criticize him you don't know much about actual Islam.


This is very true. However, Black Muslims are pretty easy to apart from other Muslims. Black Muslims are often very well groomed and usually wear western-style clothes and often a little bow tie. They are typically clean shaven and usually do not wear traditional Arabic clothes other than a small hat known as a "kufi"

Image
Black Muslim

In contrast people who practice traditional Islam often wear very distinctive clothes---the women wear a hajib that covers the head, or even full body coverings known as a nib to conceal her body from the eyes of men, while the men themselves often grow a beard and may either wear western clothes or Arab-style robes as the occasion arises.

Image
Muslim woman in traditional niqab.

Image
Muslim male in traditional Arab robes
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 03:50:05

That's not fair plant. The male is well known to have converted, at least nominally to Christianity.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 10:18:57

SeaGypsy wrote:That's not fair plant. The male is well known to have converted, at least nominally to Christianity.


If that can be proven there are many who would label him an Apostate. In many Muslim countries being a pagan is less dangerous than being labeled an Apostate, one who knew the truth and turned away.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 10:31:45

Found this in the Wikipedia,
The change from the American Muslim Mission to the American Society of Muslims occurred in the context of problems following protracted legal challenges caused by financial claims on the estate of Elijah Muhammad made on behalf of children he had fathered out of wedlock. In 1985 Warith Deen Mohammed ordered the dissolution of the American Muslim Mission. W.D. Mohammed said disbanding the American Muslim Mission means "we are members of the worldwide Muslim community...not to be identified in geographic terms or political terms or racial terms". The decision to break up the organization meant that each mosque would be autonomous. Despite dissolving the movement legally, it continued informally, but this did not stop a legal judgement in 1987 which forced the sale of $10 million worth of property. W.D. Mohammed sold a number of properties to Farrakhan, including Temple No. 2, the headquarters mosque, which was purchased with a donation to Farrakhan from Muammar Gaddafi. W.D. Mohammed reconstituted the movement as the American Society of Muslims in 1988. Warith Deen Mohammed and Farrakhan retained control of their rival groups before a phase of rapprochement in the 1990s.

In the July 9, 1999 issue of the Wall Street Journal an article cited the growing membership of the American Society of Muslims. In 2002 its numbers were estimated at "near 2.5 million persons with a percentage of immigrant and naturalized American citizens from various Muslim ethnic peoples, European Americans, and a majority of African Americans representing five generations since the earliest history of Elijah Mohammed's leadership (1933) and in some cases before."

Warith Deen resigned from the leadership of the American Society of Muslims on August 31, 2003 and established The Mosque Cares. He gave as his reason for resigning that the imams within the organization continued to resist his reforms.

On December 21, 2003, Imam Mustafa El-Amin was given W.D. Mohammed's blessing to attempt to maintain the AMS as an organization. El-Amin advertised in The Muslim Journal, expressing solidarity with the aims of the former leader. El-Amin received little support and the ASM did not reorganize. After W.D. Mohammed's death in 2008, its members have identified as the "Community of Imam Warith Deen Mohammed" or simply "Muslim Americans", and its national activities have been largely organized by The Mosque Cares, run by one of W.D. Mohammed's sons Wallace D. Mohammed II.


It strikes me as very strange that Quadaffi would give money not to the mainstream portion of the two organizations to pay off their legal battle but instead gave the money to Farrakhan who is viewed as a pretender by mainstream Muslims.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 12:38:12

Islam is pretty much as complicated as Christianity, there are dozens of major belief structures. Saying Islam is the problem is IMO too simplistic, but saying Islam is the religion of Peace is equally simplistic.

For one thing while most people have at least heard the terms Sunni and Shia in reference to Islam most people take that as being like Catholic and Protestant. However in the Christian reference you would also have to recognize the Coptic church of Africa and the Eastern Orthodox church as being fundamental to understanding Christianity. For Islam there are also lesser recognized sects that also trace their roots back to the earliest days of the religion. They may be lesser players on the world stage because none of the places they are the majority are also major oil exporting countries, but they still exist.

Then there are the secular Muslims of the world, most of whom live in the westernized world that de-emphasizes religion as a part of the cultural decision making. These folks are the ones who dress and behave close to the social norms of where they live while still practicing Islam in private.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 19:32:24

There is a huge textural difference. They are polar opposites fundamentally.

The Christian Bible starts off with a fairy story, stacks up more fairy stories with piles of psychosis & gore, then as the new testament comes in it becomes an interesting balancing between inner & outward conflict & resolution, leading to a conclusion about being right with God being primarily an inward maturity upon deep reflection, manifest in an eventual end time of the righteous all being killed & saved up as citizens belonging to the resurrection of Christ.

The Koran starts off as a utopian view of life in Medina in the 7th century. It develops through a spiritual reflective stage, to local conquest & eventually progresses to a full blown annihilation of everything not Islam.

Just on face value, to Islam, Christianity must die as a figment of idolatry, while to Christianity, Islam represents the army of Satan, deniers of the divinity of Jesus.

Secularity likes to deny this existential conflict exists. Secularization of the nominal polarities can be gauged by the extent these engage in such denials. Real Christians are based in the Bible as real Muslims are based in the Koran. To both, the polarity is both obvious & right. Secularism has become so full of it's own grandeur it brings out statements about religion as fact which utterly conflict with the facts of the religion, & enough people are ignorant enough, arrogant & wishful enough, to buy into these sweeping lies about the two biggest religions particularly.

Conflict between these civilisations has been carved in stone for a millennia & more. They will continue to conflict until one or other is beaten into submission. Secularism will continue to warp & convert the religious, but will do so using baseless lies as now, leaving the intelligent & perceptive inclined to stick with the Devil who raised them.

This mess will go on for centuries or until extinction or near extinction of our species. There is a terrible dearth of honesty on this planet, as the Vedas predicted many centuries ago, the actual truth will become so scarce the only place to find it will be inside oneself.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 23:05:51

Seagypsy what do you propose as a way to change things so we can all get along?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 05 Dec 2015, 23:42:04

If I could answer that effectively Tan, I would have a fleet of Rollers etc.

My opinion doesn't fit with any of the usual theocratic boxes. The people I find most interesting are using a scientific perspective to investigate questions at the same level as the great questions from whence come the marketplace of religion. Quantum physics & the meeting points between ancient understandings & modern science are founding a new kind of religion, not so much a religion as a religious sensibility- that being the position of awe at life, the universe & everything. When people can understand the scientific method en-masse, they can compare understandings objectively, not needing to engage in wholesale destruction of traditional religion in order to promote increased civility, humanity, humility & awe at our position in the universe.

The new religion should be called "Wow! Interesting! Tell me More Please!"
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby MD » Sun 06 Dec 2015, 07:30:19

More of these ridiculous THE threads? I thought this place had finally gotten over that bizarre practice.

Let's jumble up another twenty conversations into an indecipherable conglomeration! :badgrin:
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby careinke » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 01:33:49

OK, I want to jump in here. I worked with Saudi Muslims for over 9 years in Saudi Arabia. Mostly Wahhabi Sunnis and a few Shias. Personally I think Sunnis are way more radical than Shias.

Westerners do not really understand Islam, because their beliefs are just to foreign for us to accept. Islam does want to take over the world literally. Here is a video of a "Scholar" explaining how Jihad works. It matches what I have been told by many Saudi's over many, many, many, cups of Chia and countless Capsas (goat grabs) . This is what the Sunni truly believe.

So directly from the lips of a Islamic Scholar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JJeVLTGYX8

This guy is mainstream Islam not some radical sect as the MSM and our politicians would like you to believe.

Maybe someday I'll tell you their version of the second coming. It's a lot more interesting than the Christian version.
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 01:54:07

SoCal better watch out, as too India!

Funny the way they scream about 'People of the Book!" then go on to justify subhuman behavior based on their Book, which is an extension of the other Books.

Cid made a point in a recent post, proposing that the real subtext driving western zeal against Islamic Establishmentarianism, is about the threat of Sharia compliant banking as mentioned in the interview posted above. If critical momentum is reached, & nobody knows what that is because there has been no competition to global capitalism for half a century, it could amount to a massive capital shift at a point where the system can least afford it.

The fact that Islam not just proposes, but actually runs (& is growing), a completely alternative financial system which appears immune to many of the most dangerous aspects of western global capitalism- must irk some very powerful people very much I would consider.

(note the efforts to shut down local barter & trade currency alternatives everywhere these have developed in western communities.)
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 13:03:08

Secret Caliphate plan for world domination revealed in leaked document

isis-plot-world-domination-revealed

How to set up an Islamo-fascist state and take over the world
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 14:19:21

Plantagenet wrote:Secret Caliphate plan for world domination revealed in leaked document

isis-plot-world-domination-revealed

How to set up an Islamo-fascist state and take over the world
How much of it was cut and pasted from "The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion?"
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Re: THE Islam Thread Pt 2

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 09 Dec 2015, 01:05:41

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