[Sixstrings]

Something I can't figure out..

Why is Hillary Clinton giving speeches and complaining about the lead water in Flint Michigan every day..

And then Bernie Sanders is too..

And people are having marches and protests and complaining and complaining and it's all a bunch of back and forth.

But the federal government doesn't just fix the darn thing. So what's up with that. Hillary Clinton is demagoguing on this issue every day, but nobody is mentioning the Democratic president in the white house right this very moment. I heaven't heard Obama say anything about Flint, and it's been months now.

Where is the EPA? Where is Obama, on this?

Obama could have got FEMA involved and got water filters out, etc. This should be Obama's katrina, but it's odd to me that Democrats just don't mention Obama at all, and rather they just campaign on this thing every day as if the lead has to stay in the water until one of them can take office in 2017.

It's like the issue is getting milked or something.

I mean goodness, Clinton's on tv right now in Flint, PRAISING Obama's overall record.. right after talking about all the lead in the water for the last thirty minutes.. so why hasn't she been criticizing Obama for having not done anything about Flint for all these months?

[Plantagenet]

Something I can't figure out..

Why is Hillary Clinton giving speeches and complaining about the lead water in Flint Michigan every day..

And then Bernie Sanders is too..

And people are having marches and protests and complaining and complaining and it's all a bunch of back and forth.

But the federal government doesn't just fix the darn thing. So what's up with that. Hillary Clinton is demagoguing on this issue every day, but nobody is mentioning the Democratic president in the white house right this very moment. I heaven't heard Obama say anything about Flint, and it's been months now.

Where is the EPA? Where is Obama, on this?

Obama could have got FEMA involved and got water filters out, etc. This should be Obama's katrina, but it's odd to me that Democrats just don't mention Obama at all, and rather they just campaign on this thing every day as if the lead has to stay in the water until one of them can take office in 2017.

It's like the issue is getting milked or something.

I mean goodness, Clinton's on tv right now in Flint, PRAISING Obama's overall record.. right after talking about all the lead in the water for the last thirty minutes.. so why hasn't she been criticizing Obama for having not done anything about Flint for all these months?

Its all part of Hillary's effort to win the black vote----they are her last firewall against the wave of millenials supporting Bernie.

The last thing Hillary is going to do is mention that the EPA ran analyses on Fllint water samples and the EPA knew about the Flint problem long before it became public, but the local EPA bureaucrats squelched the data and delayed the report and basically left those kids to be poisoned.

[Lore]

Because it was a problem initiated by the state's Republican Governor.

[Plantagenet]

Because it was a problem initiated by the state's Republican Governor.

The problem can be traced back to the financial exigency in Flint----a strongly democratic city with a completely incompetent D city government.

Apparently the city government in Flint was so incompetent it didn't even regularly test its own water supply.


Flint City water. No really----thats what comes out of the pipes in Flint!

[ROCKMAN]

I have to go with my pal Lore on this one. It never was a fed problem and shouldn't be one now. IOW this is not another f*cking Katrina. LOL.

It is not a natural catastrophe: it's a local problem caused by piss poor local and state administrators. This is their problem to fix and to PAY FOR. IMO this isn't a problem US tax payers need to cover. No different the to ask the feds to pay for fixing pot holes in Houston. There is no health issue now because no one in Flint is drinking leader water today. The city of Flint is responsible for providing it's citizens with drinking water...always has been and always will be. The folks in Houston pay for their drinking water...not the US tax payer. Flint can pay to clean the pipes and filter the water. Or they can perpetually supply its citizens with bottle water. It's choice and its RESPONSIBILITY.

[Sixstrings]

I have to go with my pal Lore on this one. It never was a fed problem and shouldn't be one now. IOW this is not another f*cking Katrina. LOL.

Well I just disagree.

If the media and all the national politicians are gonna demagogue and talk about something on national tv for months, and you've got Hollywood actresses crying and paying for tractor trailers full of bottled water, then it should be something Obama should have got on top of, months ago.

And Hillary Clinton has opened a specific Flint Lead Water campaign office, just to campaign on this for a year.

And Sanders is doing 20,000 person rallies about it.

So wtf, where is the EPA? Where has the EPA been? Where has FEMA been? Where has Obama been? He is in fact the president, no?

Why do we have to watch some third world thing unfolding on our tv, and it's somehow NOT the epa or FEMA's job to do anything? That's EXACTLY what katrina was too, and Bush admin back then said Louisiana never asked for help and that was that. So now Obama says the same thing of Michigan, but really Obama should have already stepped up by now.

It's an environmental big problem, like a toxic spill or superfund cleanup situation, so where the heck has the EPA been.

Where is the President.. go in there, get everyone water filters, and fix the darn pipes. And get it off the tv.

I think a President Trump would have handled this by now. One thing about Trump, he knows what's going on in the national media. If something is a big problem, he'd just go fix it. Obama just ignores it all, and lives in a bubble. Which is exactly what W. Bush did, in katrina -- WH staff finally had to sit him down and show him dvd's of media coverage so that he'd realize there was a problem.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I have to go with my pal Lore on this one. It never was a fed problem and shouldn't be one now. IOW this is not another f*cking Katrina. LOL.

Right! Because the EPA should NEVER have ANY responsibility for the quality of water. They just make spread sheets, and get $billions in funding to have everyone self monitor. If there's ever a problem, then it's always someone else's fault.

(Nice work if you can get it. And then the pro big government types wonder why taxpayers are sick of federal government ineptness. Well, at least the EPA has company. The FDA behaves very much the same way. And the most ironic/sad thing is that to me, things like the EPA and the FDA are among the most important things the government should be doing.)

Meanwhile, there has been plenty of news about how poorly the EPA has been enforcing drinking water quality for years. Why do they continue to get a free pass for that?

A recent example: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... -lead.html

And the EPA (and MDEQ) AREN'T on the ball and protecting the residents of Flint, even when they know there's a problem:

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2016/02/fl ... eq/462444/

.....

But it's nice to know. If my city's drinking water gets messed up and I get sick or die, I know NOT to blame the EPA under any circumstances, even if they know about the problem but fail to act.

So let me guess, liberals. The answer is more taxes, more government, more regulation, etc. Right?

Because we all know it's money well spent, just like the military.

[Sixstrings]

Right! Because the EPA should NEVER have ANY responsibility for the quality of water. They just make spread sheets, and get $billions in funding to have everyone self monitor.

Right. I don't care which party is in the white house -- we're supposed to have an Environmental Protection Agency, in this country.

So how can they be silent on this Flint Michigan thing.

EPA was created by Nixon -- it's supposed to be *The Environmental Protection Agency*, so where the heck are they on this Flint Michigan thing? Just nowhere to be found? I don't get it.

If there's ever a problem, then it's always someone else's fault.

The entire point of a federal environmental agency is that it can't just be left to the states. If the states could be relied on to handle it all the time, then we wouldn't have an EPA.

It's a big huge fail, EPA is mysteriously AWOL. It shouldn't be left to Hollywood actresses to pay for truckloads of bottled water, what are we, Guatamala?

Meanwhile, there has been plenty of news about how poorly the EPA has been enforcing drinking water quality for years. Why do they continue to get a free pass for that?

And that's a good point. EPA is screwing up lately. They're supposed to have a primary role in overseeing consumer protection -- cleain air, clean water.

They're AWOL in Flint Michigan. And the President has been curiously silent.

[GHung]

Sixstrings, the guy who politicises every comment and post he makes, accusing others of politicising things. That's rich, Six.

Wanna get political?

Republicans Who Cut and Tried To Defund EPA Now Attack It For Not Preventing Colorado Mine Spill
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/8/11 ... Mine-Spill

I can do this all night, but it makes me nauseous.

[KaiserJeep]

I have to speak in Six's defense this time. The answer to your questions would be:

1) Infrastructure is the responsibility of first Local and secondly State governments. The Federal infrastructure is limited to nationwide items like the Interstate Highway System or the locks/canals in the Great Lakes, or the various Army Corps of Engineers projects. Note that a candidate for POTUS is already a power-mad authoritarian at the very least. Some go far beyond the "least" and advocate using the powers of the Federal government to force people to behave differently than they otherwise would choose. In other words, they are Fascists - such as anyone who advocates expanding the powers or responsibilities of the Federal Government into the purview of Local and State governments.

2) The people of Flint have elected Democrats since WW2, thanks mainly to the dominance of the Democratic-leaning labor unions such as the UAW, also known as the Democratic political machine. The UAW succeeded so well in advocating for it's members that it killed the automobile industry that really was the largest employer in Flint, in Detroit, and in fact the entire MidWest. (In my first home in Elgin, Illinois my next door neighbor was a 27-year employee of a company called Chicago Rawhide - which actually made engine oil seals for GM, Ford, and Chrysler. He was also next on the bubble to be laid off when I moved to Virginia in 1982.)

3) Generations of Democrats have prioritized what I will simply call "social issues" as being higher budgetary priorities than infrastructure maintenance on water supplies, streets, etc. In actual fact, graft has stolen most tax monies before the lower priority items such as water systems ever get addressed.

4) When the automobile industry contracted due to effective foreign competition from smaller, higher quality, more fuel-efficient vehicles, the budgets in Flint, Detroit, and pretty much every large MidWestern city contracted due to the loss of tax revenues. Budgetary priorities shifted repeatedly until essential services were slowly being starved, and infrastructure systems like the water supplies were minimally budgeted for literally decades. All remaining funds for water system maintenance were devoted to simply keeping water pressure in the pipes, so that water service was functional. (Hey, remember that in cities in South America, they can't manage even that much.)

5) The yellowish cast to the water above is not lead, it is rust - most of the piping from the water main at the street to the tap in the house is steel pipe, vintage WW2 when American steel was king. In anything built in the 1980's onwards, copper pipe was used instead, and in anything from about 2005 onwards, various forms of plastic piping - these newer pipes do not rust, but are also largely found in the toney white suburbs, not the inner city black ghettos. The suburbs have also quietly invested in individual residence water filters, water softeners, and water distillers, the suburban kids do not face the same health risks as the urban ghetto kids.

6) This process continued for decades - until the inner city budgets were squeezed down to the two highest priorities that those Democratic administrations had: Essential Services and Graft.

That is where we are today. Only idiots would allow a Democrat to campaign on issues created by earlier generations of Democrats - but amazingly, aided and abetted by the MSM, that is happening today.

Believe it or not, this is a politically impartial analysis. From time to time, Republicans have been elected to the positions of Governor in MidWestern states such as Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. When in disgust of the reeking Democratic politics they have attempted to reform the corrupt city governments of the largest cities in their respective states, the MSM has shrilly and loudly condemned such efforts - most recently those of Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin, but going all the way back to a series of Republican Governors of Illinois, when I lived there as a teenager in the 1960s.

That would be where we are today. If you want to dispute my analysis, I stand ready with the facts.

[Satori]

this problem was the DIRECT result of actions taken by the state
let the state pay for the fix
aren't the Rethugs all about taking personal responsibility ?
LOL !!!

Snyder knew about this problem for close to a year
and did NOTHING
and now he's crying crocodile tears ???

[KaiserJeep]

this problem was the DIRECT result of actions taken by the state
let the state pay for the fix
aren't the Rethugs all about taking personal responsibility ?
LOL !!!

Snyder knew about this problem for close to a year
and did NOTHING
and now he's crying crocodile tears ???

Explain how the local water utility in Flint, Michigan is the responsibility of either the State of Michigan or the Federal Government. Both the Michigan EPA and the Federal EPA have oversight authority only, they establish standards for what constitutes potable water. Their responsibility ends when they have notified the local authorities that they are in violation of the standards for acceptable drinking water. Their further responsibility is to enforce those water standards by testing the water for quality and then prosecuting the water utility officials (or their Democratic overseers) who continue to violate the standards.

This shouldn't be a political football, but if so, you must blame the Democrats that created the problem with decades of neglect for the city water infrastructure.

[Lore]

Because it was a problem initiated by the state's Republican Governor.

The problem can be traced back to the financial exigency in Flint----a strongly democratic city with a completely incompetent D city government.

Apparently the city government in Flint was so incompetent it didn't even regularly test its own water supply.


Flint City water. No really----thats what comes out of the pipes in Flint!

You obviously know nothing about the problem. My wife is from Flint and most of her family worked in the auto industry there. Like many cities in the rust belt built on a single industry it got into trouble when the industry did. What was left behind were the usual poor.

Moving forward to today there is now no government in Flint other then that run by the State of Michigan under Rick Snyder after he had removed the elected officials and put into place his own city manager. In other words, he usurped the people's right to their own democratically elected officials for a dictator that only answered to Rick. It was this person that decided he would save roughly a dollar a month per person by using the Flint river water instead of the water they were getting from Lake Huron. That river water was even refused by GM since it corroded engine parts.

[Plantagenet]

It never was a fed problem and shouldn't be one now..... The city of Flint is responsible for providing it's citizens with drinking water...always has been and always will be. The folks in Houston pay for their drinking water...not the US tax payer. Flint can pay to clean the pipes and filter the water. Or they can perpetually supply its citizens with bottle water. It's choice and its RESPONSIBILITY.

Well, logically you are right, but logic is in short supply among US politicians.

This is a golden opportunity for the Ds to blame the Rs for the dirty water in Flint, never mind that Flint is a 100% D city. In fact, after prodding from Hillary the Ds have just moved one of the Hilalry vs. Bernie debates to Flint ---- the fireworks will happen in early March.

hillary-clinton-flint-strategy

[Lore]

It never was a fed problem and shouldn't be one now..... The city of Flint is responsible for providing it's citizens with drinking water...always has been and always will be. The folks in Houston pay for their drinking water...not the US tax payer. Flint can pay to clean the pipes and filter the water. Or they can perpetually supply its citizens with bottle water. It's choice and its RESPONSIBILITY.

Well, logically you are right, but logic is in short supply among US politicians.

This is a golden opportunity for the Ds to blame the Rs for the dirty water in Flint, never mind that Flint is a 100% D city. In fact, after prodding from Hillary the Ds have just moved one of the Hilalry vs. Bernie debates to Flint ---- the fireworks will happen in early March.

hillary-clinton-flint-strategy

It has everything to do with an abuse of power and a treatment of our citizenry in line with that of third world despots.

[Plantagenet]

My wife is from Flint

By any chance do you drink the water there on your visits to the in-laws? Is that the problem??? HAHAHAHAH (just kidding).

today there is now no government in Flint other then that run by the State of Michigan

Thats not true. Flint just elected a new major and city council. All Ds, as has been the case for decades.

Rick Snyder ....usurped the people's right to their own democratically elected officials

I thought you just claimed Flint had no government and no elected officials of its own. hahahahahahah! You must've drunk some of that water, eh?

More seriously, Obviously the D governments in Flint have been so incompetent they've bankrupted their own city. And that is actually the root of the problem.

a dictator .... decided he would save roughly a dollar a month per person by using the Flint river water instead of the water they were getting from Lake Huron.

Yes, and the river water leached the lead pipes. I know. But why wasn't the lead problem then detected immediately?

1. Answer me this----what happened to the EPA data showing the water in Flint was bad? Why did the Federal Government cover up this data and let the kids of Flint get poisoned? What about the EPA? What in heck were they doing? We know now the EPA had data showing lead was in the water----but they did nothing. Maybe the Feds were probably too busy going to training junkets to Maui?

2. And while we know the EPA sampled the water but hid the data showing he lead contamination, I can't imagine why the Flint Water Dept wasn't testing their t own water quality? Isnt that the job of the people in the Flint Water Department? Have the Ds screwed things up so badly that no one in the Water Department was even testing the city water they were responsible for?

----------------------

I'm not aware that the evil dictator suspended all water testing and hid the data showing the kids were being poisoned---that particular bit of stupidity seems to land at the feet of the federal government and the EPA, as well as the water department of Flint itself.

CHEERS!


Why didn't the dummies in the Flint City Water Department ever test their own water?

[Lore]

By any chance do you drink the water there on your visits to the in-laws? Is that the problem??? HAHAHAHAH (just kidding).

Nice to see you're making fun of 100,000 people drinking poison on our own soil.

Thats not true. Flint just elected a new major and city council. All Ds, as has been the case for decades.

Oh gosh, Rick got caught and made a concession to reinstate the mayor in order to stop the Frankenstein lynch mob from marching on the capital.

I thought you just claimed Flint had no government and no elected officials of its own. hahahahahahah! You must've drunk some of that water, eh?

Not only has this city manager moved on but this guy is still out of prison and moved onto a Snyder appointed job in Detroit! Hard to believe?

More seriously, Obviously the D governments in Flint have been so incompetent they've bankrupted their own city. And that is actually the root of the problem.

Hello? Figure it out, the population dropped from a high in the 1960s of 200,000 people to just under 100,000 today. That my friend is the root of the problem.

Yes, and the river water leached the lead pipes. I know. But why wasn't the lead problem then detected immediately?

It was, but the advisement wasn't taken.

Answer me this----what happened to the EPA data showing the water in Flint was bad? Why did the Federal Government cover up this data and let the kids of Flint get poisoned? What about the EPA? What in heck were they doing? We know now the EPA had data showing lead was in the water----but they did nothing. Maybe the Feds were probably too busy going to training junkets to Maui?

So, you're blaming the EPA for pulling the trigger on the gun? Sounds like deflection. The state put their thumb on the whole issue.

And while we know the EPA sampled the water but hid the data showing he lead contamination, I can't imagine why the Flint Water Dept wasn't testing their t own water quality? Isnt that the job of the people in the Flint Water Department? Have the Ds screwed things up so badly that no one in the Water Department was even testing the city water they were responsible for?

All that was under state control. You forget the city czar was in charge at the time.

I'm not aware that the evil dictator suspended all water testing and hid the data showing the kids were being poisoned---that particular bit of stupidity seems to land at the feet of the federal government and the EPA, as well as the water department of Flint itself.

This was a state's issue, not a federal issue until it went beyond stupidity.

Flint water crisis: emails reveal governor Snyder informed of problems a year ago

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... a-year-ago

CHEERS!

[KaiserJeep]

To be fair: the EPA responsibility is to notify the water utility officials and the city government that provides oversight of the water utility of a problem with water quality. Their further responsibility is to arrest and prosecute those utility officials and city politicians that do not act to protect the public.

If the (Democrat) politicians who oversee the Federal EPA choose to publicise the existence of lead contamination in drinking water in an election year - because they believe they can successfully smear Rick Snyder or anybody else - that goes above and beyond their responsibility. Note however that the pictures of rusty water are irrelevant - the visible iron is an essential element of human nutrition, whereas the lead contamination is invisible, has been present for decades, and inevitably would have worsened (at a reduced rate) even had the substitution of river water for lake water never occurred.

In any case, I think it was largely the MSM smearing Snyder on this. Doubtless somebody on Obama's EPA admin staff or in the DNC put them up to it, but likely that can never be proved.

I have not noticed any prominent Democrats in Flint being prosecuted for this problem.

In all, BAU in an election year.

[Plantagenet]

So, you're blaming the EPA .... Sounds like deflection.

You obviously don't know what the EPA is.

The job of the EPA is to check for environmental pollution and to protect people from pollution in the environment. Thats why they are called the "Environmental Protection Agency." The whole purpose of the EPA is to protect people from things like the lead in the Flint water supply.

The EPA was checking the water in Flint, and they found out about the lead pollution in Flint back in April. But the EPA squelched their own data and let those kids in Flint get poisoned for 10 months while they did nothing.

Lore---think about it. Once the EPA found out the water in Flint was unsafe to drink back in April, they should've immediately announced the water in Flint was unsafe to drink.

epa-stayed-silent-flints-tainted-water

Obviously the EPA failed to do their job properly in Flint.

Cheers!

[Satori]

hmm
it certainly does appear that the EPA was aware of problems,at least back into 2015

however
the state and the governor were also made aware of these issues
and as I said
the governor did nothing
and what is really suspicious is that the Republicans on the U.S. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee
have done everything they could to keep Governor Snyder from appearing to testify
gee
wonder why they don't want him there ?

and it is the EPA's contention
that they were met "with resistance" from day 1 by state officials

however
it certainly seems that government on EVERY level failed in this matter