[onlooker]

I ask because we all can acknowledge that the world is set to change dramatically in the next few decades. So as our descendants stare back in time to this present, how will they view us? As the greedy, self absorbed myopic arrogant beings that we have demonstrably acted as. Or will they give us the benefit of the doubt and allow for our limitations and vices and feel pity for us. Who knows. I for one would in their shoes see us as the former. A people who forgot to account for either the past or the future. A people lost in materialistic ephemeral considerations.

[DesuMaiden]

I ask because we all can acknowledge that the world is set to change dramatically in the next few decades. So as our descendants stare back in time to this present, how will they view us? As the greedy, self absorbed myopic arrogant beings that we have demonstrably acted as. Or will they give us the benefit of the doubt and allow for our limitations and vices and feel pity for us. Who knows. I for one would in their shoes see us as the former. A people who forgot to account for either the past or the future. A people lost in materialistic ephemeral considerations.

I think people in the future will just view us as another example of a civilization that overshot its own resource base. Just like how we view the people on Easter Island as a group of people that made that same mistake.

We built too much of our infrastructure and life style on a nonrenewable, finite and irreplaceable resource aka fossil fuels. When fossil fuels become much less available to industrial, modern civilization, we will have to resort back to consuming contemporary photosynthetic energy via biomass, muscle power, and etc. Whatever civilizations may exist in the post fossil fuel era will become far more simplistic with technology probably akin to the pre industrial era.

I doubt people in a post-fossil fuel civilization will have access to most of the technologies invented since the advent of cheap oil (which happened around 1860 AD) because virtually all technology made since that date have been reliant on oil and other nonrenewable, finite and irreplaceable resources. Everything ranging from automobiles, planes, computers, cellphones, the Internet and etc were/are/will continue to be made from fossil fuels. I doubt people in a 100 to 200 years from now can manufacture microchips, which are essential to most electronic communication devices (like computers, TVs, and cellphones), so the digital age will probably come to an end in another couple of decades due to the shortage of various materials required to make digital technologies.

The future will more likely be like the past. In other words, people in the future will have to become accustomed to using less advanced and more primitive technologies like what people used during the Medieval and Roman eras aka as the pre Industrial Age.

As some people had said, we went from an agrarian to industrial society. And in the coming decades/centuries we will go back to an agrarian society. This transition will be difficult for most people because most people have been indoctrinated into believing in the myth of never-ending technological progress. Most people think our technologies will keep on getting advancer and advancer until we can transcend our mortal origins to become gods. Most people think we will have intergalactic travel in the future like what's shown in Star Trek and Star Wars. Most people think our technology will keep on getting fancier and advancer because there is somehow no limits to economic growth. Unfortunately, these cornucopian fantasies cannot ever become true because the Earth is a finite system. You cannot get whatever you like, simply from wishing it were true.

Well these people will be in for a rude awakening, when they realize that most of modern technologies they enjoy, cannot be manufactured and maintained in the coming decades due to shortages of various resources. People, like me, already realized that modern, industrial civilization is inheritantly unsustainable. I hope more people become aware of this reality, so that they adapt accordingly.

[Subjectivist]

I ask because we all can acknowledge that the world is set to change dramatically in the next few decades. So as our descendants stare back in time to this present, how will they view us? As the greedy, self absorbed myopic arrogant beings that we have demonstrably acted as. Or will they give us the benefit of the doubt and allow for our limitations and vices and feel pity for us. Who knows. I for one would in their shoes see us as the former. A people who forgot to account for either the past or the future. A people lost in materialistic ephemeral considerations.

Let me turn that around on you OL, how do you view Ancient Egypt? What about the Persian Empire? What about the Chi'In Empire that modern China gets its name from?

Unless you are a history buff you probably don't even know what century each of those Empires was at the height of its power and spread. So does it matter to you what they did and how they did it? Probably the average person alive today neither knows, nor cares about the super Empires of the past that were the very definition of civilization, when they existed. 200-500 years from now America will be just like Ancient Egypt, bored school kids will study it and forget it the day after the test.

[onlooker]

Well Sub, to that I say those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

[DesuMaiden]

Well Sub, to that I say those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

If you think about it, we (as in modern, industrial civilization) are committing the same mistakes as the people on Easter Island. Watch the following YouTube video to see why Easter Island's ecological and civilizational collapse is analogous to the path we are going down

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v40kCIpgEWw

[onlooker]

Well Sub, to that I say those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

If you think about it, we (as in modern, industrial civilization) are committing the same mistakes as the people on Easter Island. Watch the following YouTube video to see why Easter Island's ecological and civilizational collapse is analogous to the path we are going down

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v40kCIpgEWw

thanks for proving my point Desu

[DesuMaiden]

Well Sub, to that I say those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

If you think about it, we (as in modern, industrial civilization) are committing the same mistakes as the people on Easter Island. Watch the following YouTube video to see why Easter Island's ecological and civilizational collapse is analogous to the path we are going down

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v40kCIpgEWw

thanks for proving my point Desu

If you want a comprehensive answer to your question, watch the following YouTube documentary...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cP_Im795WSI

Like I mentioned here numerous times before, the future will more likely resemble the past rather than some cornucopian science fiction fantasy. What most people forget is that virtually all modern technology is predicated on the foundation of cheap fossil fuels and other nonrenewable/finite/irreplaceable resources...go to EnergySkeptic.com to see more proof of how fragile and intricate most modern technology is, especially digital communication devices...like computers, cellphones and TVs.

Here's a list of articles that prove that digital technology aka electronic devices dependent on microchips cannot last or be produced in the future

http://energyskeptic.com/category/fastc ... ion-stops/

...in the next couple of decades electronic devices might become relics like the dinosaurs. Without cheap and abundant fossil fuels and rare earth elements, the digital age will inevitably come to an end. By 2100, I wouldn't surprised that digital communication devices/electronics become totally obsolete, as we will no longer have the resources and infrastructure to manufacture them.

A post fossil fuel world will have a technological level of the late Middle Ages or Renassiance at best. There is no way we can maintain our luxurious, modern industrial life styles without cheap and abundant fossil fuels and a laundry list of other exotic/nonrenewable/finite/irreplaceable resources like rare earth elements.

The myth of progress is just a myth. We think we can continue technological progress far into the distant future, but that isn't possible anymore due to resource and ecological constraints that no techno fix can solve.

By the way, Julian Simmon's so-called predictions and beliefs are downright ridiculous. He claims we will always find a substitute for whatever resource we are running short of. He cites how we replaced copper with fibre optic cables as proof for that claim...however, what he doesn't realize is that fibre optic cables are made of silica, which is another finite and nonrenewable resource....what he doesn't realize is that we can't indefinitely find substitutes for a resource we are running short of. If we could, then the people on Easter Island wouldn't have experienced their civilization collapsing from a shortage of wood and other irreplaceable resources.

What Julian Simmon and other cornucopians forget is that many resources are irreplaceable, and lacking in just one of such a resource will result in the collapse of a complex civilization built upon it. That is Leibig 's Law of the Minimum for you.

[Subjectivist]

Well Sub, to that I say those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

I don't see it as history repeating itself, I see it as human nature following the same pattern no matter what the technology level is. People got proud of whatever power they have to influence things and that leads them to the same pitfalls over and over.

[onlooker]

Well Sub, to that I say those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

I don't see it as history repeating itself, I see it as human nature following the same pattern no matter what the technology level is. People got proud of whatever power they have to influence things and that leads them to the same pitfalls over and over.

Good observation Sub.

[ralfy]

The current situation involves one on a global scale and multiple crises amplifying each other, thus making it very different from what happened to empires in the past. More details here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-collapse

[jedrider]

They won't have time to think about us. They'll be too busy trying to keep the lights on and the bellies full. I don't see the coming times as a good period to be doing retrospectives. They'll probably view us as being lucky and that is all. I do see the romance of how great a species we are falling by the wayside when we realize that the cockroach has better survival chances than we.

[onlooker]

The current situation involves one on a global scale and multiple crises amplifying each other, thus making it very different from what happened to empires in the past. More details here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-collapse

I think Ralfy makes a good observation here. Unlike past civilization and empires that collapsed and rebuilt, we are talking here about worldwide collapse and little chance of truly rebuilding. So in that context perhaps we will be viewed at least somewhat negatively, I would think. We basically are creating a denuded Earth for survivors to try and survive on. So, I think we will be cursed.

[DesuMaiden]

The current situation involves one on a global scale and multiple crises amplifying each other, thus making it very different from what happened to empires in the past. More details here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-collapse

I think Ralfy makes a good observation here. Unlike past civilization and empires that collapsed and rebuilt, we are talking here about worldwide collapse and little chance of truly rebuilding. So in that context perhaps we will be viewed at least somewhat negatively, I would think. We basically are creating a denuded Earth for survivors to try and survive on. So, I think we will be cursed.

Watch Mad Max to see what the future might hold...I certainly don't think the future will be very pretty.

[Timo]

How will future generations view us in this generation?

Well, in hindsight, they'll recognize that we should have had more forethought.

They'll rightfully understand that we lacked the intelligence to use our intelligence to afford them a habitable planet to live on. Coulda! Shoulda! Why the f**k didn't ya? For that generation, we'll be remembered as very intelligent, and very stupid idiots.

This prediction, of course, assumes that there will be a future generation capable of looking backwards in time to ponder this question, and that is not a given.

[Kylon]

I think most people will be relatively unaware of the past.

I predict a global oligarchy, which will maintain the good life for themselves, using renewable resources.

Algae based oceanic biofuel will provide all the oil the elites need to maintain their way of life. Technology will be maintained, but only for the elite.

Many technologies will stagnate (but not disappear), due to the fact that the elite will try and destroy any creative or independent thought in the lower classes, and will so busy oppressing people they won't develop a high level of creativity themselves. Those that are creative will focus their work on developing more effective mechanisms for oppressing the weak, and keeping people down.

There will also be artistic creativity, because artistic creativity doesn't have a military application directly, and it's political applications can be controlled so long as you control all information channels. So toys, and things to entertain the Elite will still exist and new ones will be created.

The vast majority of the population will live in ignorance. Those that are educated and not part of the elites will be educated with extreme specialization, so that they can fufill the task necessary for civilization, but not come up with ideas on their own that would threaten the power structure.

The vast majority of people will essentially be serfs, slaving away, given little information, having little mobility, socially, economically, politically, or geographically.

I don't think that the system will be a complete command economy because capitalism is more efficient. Rather you'll have a small number of people getting the education necessary to make things run, and do whatever creative jobs are required, as well as higher up things. People from the lower classes (there won't be a middle class), will neither have the opportunity to go to universities where they can learn the necessary skills to be successful businessmen or creative class members, and they will be prevented from owning books that would allow them to achieve success.

Quite simply I think we will have a super feudalistic world, where the rich stay rich forever, the poor are brutalized whenever they voice unhappiness, and ignorance is not only encouraged, it's mandated for anybody who isn't part of the elite.

The future children won't think anything of us, because they won't have knowledge of us. After 3 or 4 generations knowledge of the past will be lost. The idea will be "this is how it is, how it was, and how it always will be" They won't know any different, and people won't say it was any different because they don't want the elites to oppress them.

The future looks bad.

[ralfy]

Anything global will likely require high energy returns.

[Tanada]

The word Posterity does not mean just your children and grand children, it means all your decedents into the far future.

noun
1. All succeeding or future generations collectively:
Judgment of this age must be left to posterity.

Given that the word was chosen specifically for this thread those of you talking about the next 50 or 100 years need to broaden your perspective. That being said I expect we will be forgotten, as the past almost always is, not very long after our direct descendants, if any, or friends and acquaintances, if any LOL, forget about us. It takes some spectacular act to even get noticed in our civilization, let alone mentioned in some historical context. Then that historical account has to be preserved into the distant future for your posterity to even have an opportunity to know you, individually, existed.

Civilizations are the same way, there has been writing in some form in the 'fertile crescent' for something on the order of 6,000 years starting with Cuneiform. Off the top of your head what do you know about ancient civilizations from 6,000 years ago in Iraq? I am a history nerd and I would be hard pressed to name very much information without grabbing my reference books off the shelf. Ask the average University educated 30 year old American and they will give you a blank and vacant stare.

We are the posterity of every civilization that has already come and gone on this planet, and even though people left rock carvings and cave art for at least the last 40,000 years and written records going back circa 6,000 years we as a general rule, know almost nothing about them. If we are 'well educated' we might know a bit about the sequence of civilizations, but that is about it. What came before is interesting for a few of us, for most it is just 'useless trivia' and they are focused on day to day existence.

If we keep going the way we are our civilization will collapse and we will be reduced to a much lower technological state at least for a period of time. The people who come after, say 500 years after the collapse, will only think about us in context of what useful things we have left behind. When the French and English were fighting for dominance of Europe during the Hundred Years War (1337 to 1453) the only thing they knew about the Roman Empire was it had developed catapults and developed really great roads and bridges that were still in use. Asking any peasant living in England or France at the time and they might not even know that much, catapults and roads and bridges were just things that had been around longer than anyone could remember.

500 years from now the average human will be just like those peasants of the 14th and 15th century, they might have some dim recollection that people once flew, but in their world only the birds, bats and bugs can fly. They might entertain each other with tall tales about people who could fly, but they will just be tall tales.

[DesuMaiden]

Tanada, that is assuming there are humans around in another 500 years from now. But you are right...people centuries from now may be amazed at the legends of our advanced civilization. But they may also criticize us for being so short-sighted that we left our descendants, aka them, with a desolate world with nowhere near as much resources and biodiversity as today.

[careinke]

I think most people will be relatively unaware of the past.

I predict a global oligarchy, which will maintain the good life for themselves, using renewable resources.

Algae based oceanic biofuel will provide all the oil the elites need to maintain their way of life. Technology will be maintained, but only for the elite.

Many technologies will stagnate (but not disappear), due to the fact that the elite will try and destroy any creative or independent thought in the lower classes, and will so busy oppressing people they won't develop a high level of creativity themselves. Those that are creative will focus their work on developing more effective mechanisms for oppressing the weak, and keeping people down.

There will also be artistic creativity, because artistic creativity doesn't have a military application directly, and it's political applications can be controlled so long as you control all information channels. So toys, and things to entertain the Elite will still exist and new ones will be created.

The vast majority of the population will live in ignorance. Those that are educated and not part of the elites will be educated with extreme specialization, so that they can fufill the task necessary for civilization, but not come up with ideas on their own that would threaten the power structure.

The vast majority of people will essentially be serfs, slaving away, given little information, having little mobility, socially, economically, politically, or geographically.

I don't think that the system will be a complete command economy because capitalism is more efficient. Rather you'll have a small number of people getting the education necessary to make things run, and do whatever creative jobs are required, as well as higher up things. People from the lower classes (there won't be a middle class), will neither have the opportunity to go to universities where they can learn the necessary skills to be successful businessmen or creative class members, and they will be prevented from owning books that would allow them to achieve success.

Quite simply I think we will have a super feudalistic world, where the rich stay rich forever, the poor are brutalized whenever they voice unhappiness, and ignorance is not only encouraged, it's mandated for anybody who isn't part of the elite.

The future children won't think anything of us, because they won't have knowledge of us. After 3 or 4 generations knowledge of the past will be lost. The idea will be "this is how it is, how it was, and how it always will be" They won't know any different, and people won't say it was any different because they don't want the elites to oppress them.

The future looks bad.

I know of a couple million Permaculturists who are actively trying to prove you wrong. Being a minarchist, I hope we succeed.

[careinke]

Here is a ten minute speech given by my favorite Anarchist, co-originator of Permaculture, David Holgrem. In the video, he goes into the anarchy side of Permaculture, and how enlightened self interest, can provide the stimulus to collapse the world financial system. This may be the only thing to save or, lesson, the bigger long term threats of Climate Change and Peak Oil. There is a lot of information and insight into the political aspects of permaculture in this speech.

Synopsis:

Published on Feb 18, 2015

"To Collapse Or Not To Collapse: Pushing for economic ruin or building a great transition" was the topic for this unconventional 'debate' for the Sustainable Living Festival held at Federation Square in Melbourne February 2015. David Holmgren was the first of six speakers which also included Jess Moore, George Marshall, Nicole Foss, George Monbiot (Video Link) and Philip Sutton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roO5FJZNmBM

Holgrem has changed from just ignoring mainstream society, to actively calling for its demise through non violent means. This recent video, is the first time I've heard him express himself like this. Although I have arrived at the same conclusions, I got there by a different route. It's nice to see some confirmation.

I've heard it said you can't be a practicing Permaculturist for long before you become an Anarchist. I'm afraid it's true.